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Fastest/Most Responsive Tourers?

Old 12-04-10, 11:38 AM
  #26  
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P.S;

My next Century/Touring bike will be more like this:

Waterford Sport Touring Platform


The Road Sport Touring offers a great ride for those seeking a comfortable road ride. Compatibility with standard reach (57mm) dual pivot brakes gives you a clean road look with the ability to fit fenders and larger (up to 32C tires). Using proven long distance handling, lightweight tubing, the Road Sport Extended series offers great comfort and easy handling, making it great for:

•Fun rides.
•Training/fitness.
•Centuries and supported tours.
•Credit card touring.
•Commuting.
You can enjoy all these acivities in a wide range of weather and road conditions.

◦ST-33

https://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=2174

https://waterfordbikes.com/now/modelthis.php?blobid=547

Get the light weight and quick acceleration of Waterford's S3 technology with ths smoothness and solid handling of our Sport Touring platform.

Handling: Designed for comfort and stability over long distances, this is the choice for pure century riders and those who enjoy credit card and other forms of light touring. The long wheelbase provides excellent vertical compliance, while the steering makes the bike feel like it steers itself, so the rider can enjoy the full riding experience.


•57mm dual pivot brake capable. 57mm brakes let riders mount tires up to 28mm with fenders and 32C without - great for reliable transportation and light touring. 135mm chainstays for stability, ride comfort and load capacity.
•Single eyelets incorporated into the rear dropouts allow mounting of fenders and/or rear rack.
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Old 12-04-10, 02:09 PM
  #27  
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Barretts, nice to see the photo of your bike. Followed your discussion of "credit card touring". That is a very nice looking bike, I like that sort of subdued dark grey look with black. My Tricross, while not having as nice components, is a similiar sort of bike in terms of ride, tires, general layout and even a Brooks. As you say, one cant expect them to take a full full touring load, but I really do like these sorts of bikes for being able to be comfortable and still be fun to ride reasonably quickly and be much more responsive than a full on touring bike.
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Old 12-04-10, 02:18 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Use a 50, 39 & 26 road triple with an 11-28 cassette
oh, wanted to ask about your bike, I like that combo of gearing. I havent gone to a gear calculator to figure out the gear inches, but your setup looks like it is similar to the 50-39-30 and 11-32 setup on the Tricross with Tiagra fd and a LX rd.

What components are yours, as the Tiagra brifters and fd work quite well for me (caveat--this is my first bike with sti so it was a big improvement). In the future I could see wanting to try some more precise or snappier quicker shifting components, so am curious what you have on your bike, as the range of gearing is still quite good. Am I right that your 11-28 is the highest that your rear derailleur can go to?
In any case, if your components are a step or two above my stuff, yet can still handle this nice gear spread, I'd like to know what they are, really more for future bike looking and to keep them in mind.
thanks

Last edited by djb; 12-04-10 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 12-04-10, 03:41 PM
  #29  
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Hi DJB,

I agree the Tricross is a great bike for the OP and people who need/want the same do-it-all versatility.

I have a Shimano 105 triple crankset. These have 50, 39 & 30 standard, I replaced the 30t with a 26t from Harris Cyclery. I’m using 105 ten speed brifters and a ten speed cassette. I'm using an Ultegra 6603 "GS" RD.

I've actually used a Sram Apex 11-32 with the same Ultegra 6603 "GS" RD. Using a 30t cog on the rear cassette is a no brainer, the 32 also fits if the hanger design permits. See: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...r-fear-no-hill

However, I would not try to use a triple with an 11-32 cassette with an Ultegra (or any other road Shimano) RD. That is just going way beyond the chain wrap capacity and the large-large combination would damage the RD and disable the bike.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-04-10 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-04-10, 03:53 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by djb
oh, wanted to ask about your bike, I like that combo of gearing. I havent gone to a gear calculator to figure out the gear inches, but your setup looks like it is similar to the 50-39-30 and 11-32 setup on the Tricross with Tiagra fd and a LX rd.

What components are yours, as the Tiagra brifters and fd work quite well for me (caveat--this is my first bike with sti so it was a big improvement). In the future I could see wanting to try some more precise or snappier quicker shifting components, so am curious what you have on your bike, as the range of gearing is still quite good. Am I right that your 11-28 is the highest that your rear derailleur can go to?
In any case, if your components are a step or two above my stuff, yet can still handle this nice gear spread, I'd like to know what they are, really more for future bike looking and to keep them in mind.
thanks
BTW Tiagra is 90% as good as Shimano 105. The main advantage of the 105 and higher products is the ten speed cassette. But the 9 speed is ideal for touring.
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Old 12-04-10, 05:21 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by djb
as the Tiagra brifters and fd work quite well for me (caveat--this is my first bike with sti so it was a big improvement).
The Tiagra brifters are fine and the FD doesn't matter too much.

The Tricross should be fine as a tourer (given what you plan to carry) and assuming you don't have heel strike issues.

I use a Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30 for the type of riding you are talking about. I use it mostly for group rides unloaded. I like it. It has a road triple 30/42/52 with a 32-11.

There are a lot of bikes that would work for you. You probably don't need to look at just touring bikes. That is, look at Audax/radonneering too (they would likely be fine for light touring).

Last edited by njkayaker; 12-04-10 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 12-04-10, 07:57 PM
  #32  
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quickly on the Tricross dimensions for rear bags, its CHAINSTAYS are pretty close to my touring bike and I dont have any problems with rear panniers (size 9 feet)

Barretts--thanks for that link, interesting read. Ya, I have no problem with 9 speeds and thats not the first time Ive heard that Tiagra is close up there to 105.
Was interesting to read of your gear options and the pros and cons of each for a given type of terrain and the ins and outs of using each. I too find that the 39 tooth is a very useful chainring and on the flats Im in it allthe time except for downhills and tailwinds. For that reason mostly, I see myself always using triples. the weight savings are nothing to me (specially given that I always have a pannier on my bike iwth stuff in it) and cleaner shifting with a compact?--I dunno, I guess Id have to use one to see.
Ive never had a pure road bike, but I could perhaps seeing enjoying everything being snappier, acceleration, lighter for climbs, and perhaps snappier shifting front and back. I used to have motorcycles and even raced, so can appreciate the snick snick snick of fast gear changes. This one thing I find with Tiagra brifters (and or the LX rd??) is that when you shift, there is very little physical "snick"--not sloppy, but just "feelingless" and the throw of the upshift thingee is a bit farther than ld like.

Going back to your comment about the shimano road rds, I see what you mean about not going more than a 30, but as for your large-large comment, I am rather strict about even getting close to cross chaining. On the 50 ring, I never go lower than 4th (9th being top gear)

Shall go over that thread again, was interesting. Oh, and I have always figured that I could change the granny from a 30 to a 26 if need be.

Last edited by djb; 12-05-10 at 01:17 AM. Reason: chainstays, not chainrings.....
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Old 12-04-10, 09:28 PM
  #33  
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I have/had the Cannondale ST500 touring bike from 1985, '89 Miyata 1000LT, and '08 Trek 520 Touring bike. The Cannondale is the fastest out of all of them(I'm not certain but I believe it had Panaracer 27 x 1.375 Pasela tour guard tires), followed closely by the Trek 520(700 x 32 Bontrager Hardcase). The Miyata 1000LT(700 x 25 specialized Armadillo) is a slow poke compared to the other two(might be b/c of the armadillo tires). If you are short and looking at the Cannondale touring bike, I wouldn't get the smallest size, it had a wacky seattube angle of 76.6 degrees. I could never get comfortable on it no matter what I did. I had another cannondale that was one size bigger and that made all the difference for me. Out of all the bikes I've own, I'd rank the Cannondale ST500 the 5th best riding bike I've ever owned (Had about 25 riders)
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Old 12-05-10, 06:50 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by nun
OMG, this is the best frame spec tool I've ever seen. If you know what you want this is amazing

https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/57/frame-builder
+1 on that. Wow... now what's the current exchange rate...?
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Old 12-05-10, 02:34 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by nun
With Mercian you can tweak the geometry on all the bikes and add braze ons and choose tubing, but the frames fall into definite categories, ie track, tourer, racer and have styling differences too, like how fancy the lugs are. I too wish that mercian gave a description of the frames, so here's my attempt

Velocita - modern racer, mix of carbon and fillet brazed tubing
Pro Lugless - fillet brazed can be built in any style
Vincitore & Vincitore Special - fancy lugs, can be built in any style
Professional - special lugs for added stiffness, race bike
Strada Speciale - cast lugs with a clover leaf cut out and "fastback" seat stays
King of Mercia - cast lugs with heart cut out, generally a tourer, but can be built in any geometry
Miss Mercian - Mixte (step through) frame
Audax Special - cast lugs no cut outs, standard geometry is good for long distance rides and light touring
Super Vigorelli - cast lugs, track frame
Super Tourist Tandem - tandem
Mercian 60th Anniversary Ltd Edition - oversized tubing and fancy lugs, only 60 to be made
Paul Smith - colaboration with designer, two styles, track or tourer limited color choice
Rohloff Dropouts and S&S Couplings - if you want that miracle hub, I'd spec S&S fro traveling
953 Stainless Steel Frame - if you want a shiny lugged bike

This is quite helpful. Many thanks. The Mercian framebuilder feature on their site is wonderful, but they fall a little short when describing their actual frame models. What I've been hankering for is a classic British club racer. Something with slightly less aggressive but still race-like geometry, but with clearance for 28mm tires and fenders, A rack isn't necessary, as I'd be using a large saddle bag in the rear. Do you think the Professional would fit the bill or is that too aggressive?
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Old 12-05-10, 02:43 PM
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Gunnar makes a model that would fit your needs -- I think it's the Sport.

Also, the Salsa Casserroll.
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Old 12-05-10, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nun
OMG, this is the best frame spec tool I've ever seen. If you know what you want this is amazing

https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/57/frame-builder
Came out to about 1050 pounds whatever that equals in dollars. Sounds a lot. I'll stick with slightly used bikes. I always wanted a purple bike though.


Last edited by 531phile; 12-05-10 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 12-05-10, 05:27 PM
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I'd like to find an old Specialized Sequoia
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Old 12-05-10, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
P.S;

My next Century/Touring bike will be more like this:

Waterford Sport Touring Platform
+1 my thoughts exactly, except I like the ST-22, I like the lug work and would pay for custom lug work.
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Old 12-05-10, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy
Gunnar makes a model that would fit your needs -- I think it's the Sport.

Also, the Salsa Casserroll.
Gunnar makes a Grand Tour that is a sport touring frame, great looking bike, Gunnar is made my Waterford.
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Old 12-06-10, 06:26 AM
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Fast & responsive bike + BOB trailer = success. It's what I would do if I wanted to do fast touring.
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Old 12-06-10, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dbh
This is quite helpful. Many thanks. The Mercian framebuilder feature on their site is wonderful, but they fall a little short when describing their actual frame models. What I've been hankering for is a classic British club racer. Something with slightly less aggressive but still race-like geometry, but with clearance for 28mm tires and fenders, A rack isn't necessary, as I'd be using a large saddle bag in the rear. Do you think the Professional would fit the bill or is that too aggressive?
Why not just contact Mercian and ask them? They were great to work with when I bought mine a few years ago.
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Old 12-06-10, 10:25 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Lamabb
Fast & responsive bike + BOB trailer = success. It's what I would do if I wanted to do fast touring.
having pulled kids for years on trail-a-bikes, I have often wondered about how it would be touring with a trailer. I dunno, I can see how for headwinds its going to be better, and no actual weight on your bike....but it still ends up being 13.5 lbs more (the actual trailer weight) and that weight in itself is a tent, cooking stuff, sleeping bag, campmat and maybe more.

I can sort of appreciate how they have advantages, but for "fast or light" touring, I see just keeping your overall weight down as the issue, not to mention that your bike with a light load in secure panniers is going to be more fun going around corners and such, easier to put just a bike in the back of a pickup or someones trunk if you have a problem (as I have done a few times on tour)
So personally, I dont see myself using one, but can appreciate how you could use one with a bike that perhaps wouldnt be that happy with a big load on its forks and frame in general.
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Old 12-06-10, 12:26 PM
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Keep your load down to a big saddlebag and a handlebar bag and almost any bike will do ..

'Fast', is the work you put out, after all ..

Mercian are nice Traditional framesets, then you can outfit it
with your choice of components,
to suit your riding conditions, and personal preferences.
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