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Salsa Fans: Any Advantage to Vaya Ti?

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Salsa Fans: Any Advantage to Vaya Ti?

Old 11-08-10, 10:57 AM
  #26  
ocho
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The Vaya ti frame is made by Lynsky so the workmanship is going to be the same. The TN company builds the bikes to Salsa's specs as far as geometry and requirements such as fully blown loaded touring, stiffness, etc. They can be built 2x10 using the Apex group as mentioned or with a traditional triple crankset and rear cassette as desired. I think the lighter weight, is one of the nicer features of Ti with a no maintenance frame for the most part also part of the good stuff. Cost is the only downside in my mind. I like steel for many frames, ditto for aluminum and ti. All I can say is ride a ti frame that is even remotely similar to your needs, just snag a ride form a local friend or rider - most are okay with that. If you spend the time on it, it will become very apparent if its what you want.
Cost is something to think about but this is solely on the buyer. I don't think a comparable steel frame can match a Ti frame if both are made to identical requirements for overall use but the questions are more can you afford it and if you can will you personally make use of all the Ti frame offers? Could you live with steel? If the answer is "yes" you can live with steel, your decision is made. Because no matter what frame make, if there is any doubt in your mind about Ti and it's qualities as they pertain to a bicycle your mind will never justify the expense and you will be unhappy.
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Old 11-08-10, 01:30 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ClemY View Post
I have a steel frame Vaya that I built up in April. It has 40mm Conti Avenue Semislick tires and plenty of room for fenders. I built it for touring, and have installed Tubus racks front and rear. It has a Coda 94/58 crank with 20-42-42 rings and 12-32 8 spd. rear. So far, so good.
What's the widest tires you can get under your fenders in muddy situations? Are you happy with their performance on mud?
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Old 11-08-10, 01:53 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by safariofthemind View Post
What's the widest tires you can get under your fenders in muddy situations? Are you happy with their performance on mud?
There is plenty of room for the 40mm slicks, but I haven't ridden it off road in mud yet. I am heavy enough that I would need the widest tires I can get for that.
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Old 11-08-10, 02:23 PM
  #29  
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My 59cm Ti Bruce Gordon RNR has toured like a dream for the last twenty plus years on and off road including the Divide Ride. It incorporates the best characteristics of road and off road bikes just short of the 29er tire widths now available. It has the ovalized down tube which was specified for my weight with touring gear loads. The supposed high cost premium has been amortized to the level of one less latte a week over the last 20 years+.

It fits 700x47 tires with fenders. It is a stable and comfortable ride under all conditions and fast on the road when the engine is up to it. The inherent springiness of the Ti is dampened by the rider and equipment load and feels faster to me under load.
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Old 11-09-10, 08:39 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by ClemY View Post
There is plenty of room for the 40mm slicks, but I haven't ridden it off road in mud yet. I am heavy enough that I would need the widest tires I can get for that.
I had IRD Mythos 44mm tires on my (steel) Vaya, on the GDMBR. They just barely wouldn't work with my 45mm SKS fenders, but they looked like they'd be fine with any bigger fenders.
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Old 11-09-10, 10:06 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by truman View Post
I had IRD Mythos 44mm tires on my (steel) Vaya, on the GDMBR. They just barely wouldn't work with my 45mm SKS fenders, but they looked like they'd be fine with any bigger fenders.
Hi Truman,

How do you like the Vaya? The Great Divide race must have been a substantial test!

Also, would you use the bike for fast ultralight touring on pavement? Or would you want something else?

Michael
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Old 11-09-10, 10:58 AM
  #32  
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Michael, I didn't race (the 'R' is for "Route"), I toured the Divide trail unsupported from Salida to Steamboat as part of a Texas to California tour last June.

I carried 25-30 lbs of gear/food/water on and off pavement, averaged 80 miles per day for 20 riding days. I used the IRC tires for 280 mile or so dirt sections and 32mm slicks for the paved rest of it.

I don't know if that qualifies as 'fast' or 'ultralight', but the bike did beautifully all the way across.
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Old 11-09-10, 11:04 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by truman View Post
Michael, I didn't race (the 'R' is for "Route"), I toured the Divide trail unsupported from Salida to Steamboat as part of a Texas to California tour last June.

I carried 25-30 lbs of gear/food/water on and off pavement, averaged 80 miles per day for 20 riding days. I used the IRC tires for 280 mile or so dirt sections and 32mm slicks for the paved rest of it.

I don't know if that qualifies as 'fast' or 'ultralight', but the bike did beautifully all the way across.
Nice! I'm looking for something a little more touring-friendly & distance oriented than a CX bike, but not a tank.
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Old 11-09-10, 11:27 AM
  #34  
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Yeah, that's what I was looking for, too. I built it with an XT drivetrain for the mountains, but I have a 105 setup to put on it for the daily commute - if I ever get around to it.

If you want to see pics of it loaded and of the trip, the blog is still up here: http://tourdedavid.blogspot.com/
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Old 11-10-10, 11:39 PM
  #35  
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Of you experienced fellas that considered doing your tours on fully suspended (FS) XC bikes instead of hard tails? Why/why not?

Been enjoying this thread a great deal.

Cheers.

Last edited by safariofthemind; 11-10-10 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 11-11-10, 05:10 PM
  #36  
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If you're concerned about tire clearance, just go with the Fargo. The 1st gen Fargo (before the suspension correction) had very similar geometry to the Vaya, and the weight wasn't much more. I'm assuming the 2nd gen Fargo will still ride similarly. You can choose ti or steel. I kind of lust after the Ti Fargo, but I'm never going to pay $2k just to save a pound or two over my steel Fargo. If I rode daily along/in the ocean, I might worry about rust. Since I don't do that, I don't sweat it.

Fargo + thudbuster is a very comfortable, reliable setup.



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Old 11-12-10, 06:21 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
Fargo + thudbuster is a very comfortable, reliable setup.
You look so happy in that picture! Wonderful to see that.

Asana had also mentioned the thudbuster like you. Seems bike packers like that combo. It does reduce the complexity and the weight of a rig not to have a rear suspension, so that is a very viable alternative to an FS bike. Yesterday I test rode a Gary Fisher HiFi deluxe with the large 29" wheels at the Trek store in Raleigh. Very comfy compared to my hard tails but despite my best efforts I did notice a distinct pedal bob, especially when first starting to pedal. We put the bike on a scale and it came in at 29.5 lbs dead stock from the store. It is very comfortable by the way so it seemed that one needs to decide how much one is willing to give up in weight gain to get the ability to ride around camp in a real FS so one can combine MTB riding with off road touring!
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Old 11-12-10, 08:23 AM
  #38  
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ok, I looked on the Salsa website and have decided a Ti bike would be too cool to have, but I don't have enough advantages to buy one.
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Old 11-12-10, 09:34 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by safariofthemind View Post
Of you experienced fellas that considered doing your tours on fully suspended (FS) XC bikes instead of hard tails? Why/why not?
No. I habitually ride a rigid 29er singlespeed when I get on singletrack, so it follows that I don't consider suspension an essential. The touring I do mixes pavement with dirt, a suspension fork, even with a lockout, adds both weight and complexity without providing much benefit to me, so I didn't use one.

There was some fast washboard road south of Hartsel, CO that had me momentarily regretting that decision, but that was only a few hours out of 20 days.
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Old 11-12-10, 05:26 PM
  #40  
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Well, my Fargo clocks in about 29 pounds, without racks and stuff. That seems pretty typical for a normal Fargo build. So you're not going to gain a big weight advantage by forgoing rear suspension. But you will get a more reliable, simpler machine that is much more satisfying to ride on the road.

If you want light weight, there's a lot of aluminum 29er HT frames out there (Niner Air9, Salsa Mamasita, etc), but they don't have the touring capabilities of the Fargo.

Originally Posted by safariofthemind View Post
Asana had also mentioned the thudbuster like you. Seems bike packers like that combo. It does reduce the complexity and the weight of a rig not to have a rear suspension, so that is a very viable alternative to an FS bike. Yesterday I test rode a Gary Fisher HiFi deluxe with the large 29" wheels at the Trek store in Raleigh. Very comfy compared to my hard tails but despite my best efforts I did notice a distinct pedal bob, especially when first starting to pedal. We put the bike on a scale and it came in at 29.5 lbs dead stock from the store. It is very comfortable by the way so it seemed that one needs to decide how much one is willing to give up in weight gain to get the ability to ride around camp in a real FS so one can combine MTB riding with off road touring!
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Old 11-12-10, 06:41 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
Well, my Fargo clocks in about 29 pounds, without racks and stuff. That seems pretty typical for a normal Fargo build. So you're not going to gain a big weight advantage by forgoing rear suspension. But you will get a more reliable, simpler machine that is much more satisfying to ride on the road. If you want light weight, there's a lot of aluminum 29er HT frames out there (Niner Air9, Salsa Mamasita, etc), but they don't have the touring capabilities of the Fargo.
I am surprised it is 29 lb sans suspension, built up. That is in the ballpark of my Cross Check with fat 50mm Schwalbes. Must be the beefy tubing. As you say, the decision point seems to be reliability and durability. Like others have mentioned, FS is fun but not essential. The attraction of a full FS is when tooling around - short trips around NC/VA in this case. The ancient rigid Jamis mtb in my garage is close to 35 lbs. My every day road bike is closer to 20 lbs and my touring rig Cross Check is in between. It's becoming clear an FS would be a nice to have toy, and weight wise, about the same as what I already have, give or take a lb or 2, and not a revolutionary improvement.
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