Andy727

Last time I toured, I used shimano spd pedals with recessed cleats. I was fitted for them by a professional, but I ended up still having pain. I'm pretty sure that they had no float.

My question to you is which pedals should I get. I'm thinking either speedplay frogs or just using the old style of toe cages with stiff soled shoes.

What's important to me is which one will be better for my knees. The differencies in efficiency between the two is definitely not the number one priority.

staehpj1

Just my opinion and YMMV, but... I would suggest that it is usually better to get the angle correct rather than get a pedal with a bunch of float. This may take a bit of trial and error and a few fine tweaks.

More float isn't automatically better for your knees. It may be helpful for some folks in some situations, but the opposite can be true as well. I find that having only a little float helps me maintain my form even when tired. The +/- 4 degrees of the SPD's is about right for me and is adequate for most riders if they get the adjustment right.

As far as how to get the adjustment right, the SPDs have a little float, so I find I can tell which direction I need to change to hit the sweet spot for my knees. I just move them a degree or two at a time until I get it right.

I think that if your knees hurt it is just as likely to be an issue with saddle height (+/- 1/8 - 1/4" matters), saddle fore and aft placement, and saddle tilt. pedaling in too high of a gear will also do it. Getting a one time pro fitting is not always the perfect answer and fit may still need tweaking especially over time.

Andy727

I understand what you are saying, but it's hard to find the exact right spot because the current spot I was in on my tour felt perfectly fine, but after 10 days on the road, my knee began hurting pretty badly. I would rather my foot find its natural position rather than locking it into one that I think is probably good.

Carbonfiberboy 

Some spd-type pedals have no float, but most do, usually 7°-8° total float. That's a lot of float, certainly not "locking it into one". If you find you are always pedaling up against one edge of the float, you need to adjust your cleats. If your pedals have no float, buy spd pedals that do. Ask your LBS. Your cleats and shoes will still work.

It's also possible that your bike isn't geared low enough and you're frequently pushing at an unaccustomed low cadence. Your touring cadence should be the same as your sport cadence.

It's also possible that you need wedges under your cleats to move your foot into a neutral position for you. That's fairly common, but needs an experienced bike fitter to fix.

It's also possible that you need some sort of insole in your bike shoes to support your foot's natural position. That's also very common. The insoles in some shoes are worse than others.

Neccros

My feet point outward a little and I tried pedal extensions and they worked wonders!! It fixed my foot problem but I heard they work well for knee problems too...

Cyclebum

I began having knee problems after using spd's for a couple of years. Switched to platforms. No more knee problems. And no more having to take an extra pair of shoes when touring. No more clipping in and then having to remember to unclip. No more hotfoot issues. For me, the convenience of platforms far outways the small extra efficiency offered by spds.

seeker333

I've used Frogs for years now, many 1000s of miles.

I got them because of my bum left knee, and because of their unrestricted, no-spring-recentering float. Also they are MTB pedals, and cheap MTB shoes work fine for me (you can walk in them unlike many road shoes).

They're not terribly expensive for good pedals, especially when you get them from Nashbar with a 20% off coupon code. I have actually bought the Speedplay pedal body kit and rebuilt 2-3 pairs of Frogs now, which cost me only 30-40 bucks vs 85-105+ for new pedals. The polymer bodies wear out faster then the metal bearings or spindles. Specifically, it's easy to bash a pedal into pavement/ground and damage the shoe rotation limit cleat-thingy. They'll still work fine after this damage but there's nothing to keep your heels from rotating inwards and hitting the chainstays. My feet don't naturally rotate inwards this much, so it's never been a problem for me on damaged pedals. If you're shopping on ebay for used frogs, beware; many sellers have this exact damage to their used pedals, and if you don't know this little tidbit or the auction pic is inadequate resolution, well, you'll get cheated.

I have owned the CrMo spindle version and the SS spindle version, and I can tell no difference in performance or longevity. I have CrMo spindled pedals on my bike now, with over 20,000 miles on them, and there is no rust whatsoever on this cheapest version of the Frog pedals.

Speedplay came out with a new cleat for the Frog 3-4 years ago. These work better than the older version, as they are less likely to break from walking in gravel or rocket terrain (the "mushrooms" would snap off occasionally).

sstorkel

I used to think I needed pedals with tons of float to keep my knees comfortable. What I really needed, it turned out, was a decent bike fitting. All my knee pain went away after I got a professional fitting. I found that that the SPD pedals which had previously seemed like torture were then quite comfortable to ride. Been using them ever since!

c_dinsmore

i definitely concur with the first responder. sometimes getting locked a little tighter into a good position is better than free float. i have minor knee pain on and off, so my situation doesn't lend itself to absolute answers or results. but here's what i've found:

1) q factor is important. the general trend seems to be that most people need to get a little narrower.

2) getting locked into your natural "duck" or "pigeon" toed position, taken from how you walk and run and otherwise naturally move, is traditionally considered important. but i found the opposite to be true. this is because moving away from my natural duck footedness forced my legs/knees to move in a straight up and down track. and this is very important. any lateral movement while pedaling seems to give the most frequent knee pain. in this area, spds were better than frogs.

3) find a way to make your foot level. having your foot slant outward (pedaling/walking on the edge) causes pain. one of my more experienced coworkers confirmed the same thing. for me, moving my cleats towards the outer edge of the shoe (also decreasing q factor) did it.

now, all this said, i still ride frogs over spds for everything other than mountain. this is not because of the float, however. it it because i find them to be superior pedals with a significantly more practical design for versatile conditions. (other than snow/mud shedding, which is why spds are on my mtb). i think the spds or other springed pedals may be where i would return if my knee pain got unbearable.

however, with the frogs, which are an incredible pedal system, as well as with spds, keeping track of the above three things keep my knee pain down fairly well. and this is with messengering (stop go stop go fast acceleration city riding) on a fixed gear mashing away up hills in a steep city and away from stop lights; all in all otherwise very knee-irresponsible behaviour.

Speedo

An enthusiastic vote for Speedplay Frogs here!

Speedo

rep

I used to use clips and straps (but no cleats), but over the past 5 years or so I've gotten really used to platforms. If you have a smooth pedal stroke you don't notice much loss in efficiency, your foot is spread out more so less hotfoot, you can change positions, and you can wear any shoes/boots in snow/sandals in hot/wet. I used to get knee problems, and with platforms it is not an issue.

fietsbob

Modified a shoe so as to have a slot cleat, Hour glass shaped, so angular adjustment was easy.
Used my steel cage Traditional Campag Road pedals + Knee-savers ,
that gave my insulated, dry shoe covers room to pass by the crank arm without touching .
[long wet tour in early spring of western Ireland]

SBRDude

You need to be more definitive about what kind of pain you had, particularly where on the knee, how intense, did it persist off the bike, etc., and you should probably have that discussion with a sports doctor. People on the forum are friendly and helpful, but expert help in a face to face situation is in your best interest.

TurbineBlade

Well, I'll +1 this since no one else will . I ride just on BMX double-sided pedals and love them. I also used to ride SPD's and Crank Bros. Candy-C's for a few years. I liked those just fine, but I've never been riding to work and thinking: "You know, I wish I had about 15% more efficiency on my upstroke right now" .

Regular BMX pedals will be the winner here, since your foot is completely free to any position you want.

Some people are sensitive to q-factor -- I'm not one of those.

If you like clipless pedals, find some with more float and you should be fine.

magestyk

The best pedal for Touring and best for for knee problems are these.

https://www.treefortbikes.com/product...ing-Pedal.html

Enough Said!

zeppinger

+1

Andy727

Thanks for all the responses. I've decided to try out the clips and straps since they are relatively cheap, and if they don't work, I can always try something else. I already bought a pair of XL clips on ebay because I have big feet (13.5). So, for pedals I'm probably going to get the MKS sylvan like you said or maybe this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...atcorr&seller=

Northwestrider

I have had good luck with platform pedals. Eggbeaters worked well for me for a long time, however I've returned to platforms. I think it likely you'll be pleased with your decision. Keep us informed.

djb

I tried spd's for the first time in 92 I think, and those same shimano spd middle of the road model pedals are still alive today, used every year since, commuting etc, not a huge number of kilometres per year but maybe 2, 3000k or so. So all in all, they are made very very well. Yes, I keep them clean.
Personally I like the float in shimano spds, waaaaaaaaay more than with other brands I have tried. In fact I was given a pair once that were super hard toget in and out of with no float, and I completely disagree with whoever said its better being held in securely---float gives your knees some leeway if you twist as you pedal, and frankly, I feel its common sense to allow some movement.

I agree with the others on the bike fit side of things--if my seat is low by even 1 inch, it makes my knees hurt.

Ive taken numerous pedals apart to regrease and reset teh cones, but I must say i am sold on the shimanos just because of how long they last with exterior cleaning. I personally like being attached, especially for climbing, but everywhere you are more efficient. But hey, go with what you like.

magestyk

Go for the MKS Touring Pedals, the reason why is because they are bigger(more stabled) has more grip(shoes wont slip when wet or muddy) and you can add straps if you like.
It's BETTER!

Northwestrider

When using platform pedals, I do so with out straps / clips, and my feet seem to never slip off the pedals at all. It may be one of the ( we are all different areas ) however. I mention it so that you may wish to consider trying your platform pedals without them first, as magestyk has hinted.

sehsuan

Try the Rotor Q-Rings. i used to use FSA round rings on my mountain bike for short touring, and it hurts at times. after i changed to the q-rings, it was SO much better. of course i still feel tired after a long day, but the knees wasn't making any complaint over a distance twice of the tour where i had knee discomfort with round rings. they will cost a pretty penny though!

AZORCH

I absolutely love my Speedplays, but for longer days in the saddle I prefer MKS Touring.

acantor

Some people who do bicycle fitting are more experienced than others. I have had chronic knee problems for decades, occasionally made worse from cycling. I was fitted by one professional, and the problem got worse. I went to someone else, a kinesiologist and professional bicycle racer, who made a number of very subtle adjustments, as well as advised me on my pedaling technique. The knee pain stopped immediately, and has not been an issue since – that was seven years ago.

I think that both were important: changing my geometry in relation to the bicycle; and changing my pedaling technique.

fietsbob

Back in the day, when cleats were nailed to the bottom
of the leather soled shoes ,

You rode a while without the cleats, then used the resulting marks
to locate the cleat.