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building a touring bike need suggestions on components

Old 12-15-10, 08:37 AM
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twerney
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building a touring bike need suggestions on components

Hi, I am planning a tour x country 2012 I looked possibility of purchasing a new touring bike . I have a carbon fiber Fuji for tris which I don't want to use, but I also have a old trek steel tubing bike I think renolds 720? I, rather than buy new would like to build this bike up. Rims tires derailures etc. requesting info on these components . I am traveling from north east to southern cal. I imagine all paved roads but maybe not al well paved. What rims should I consider? Tires that will last? rear cassett arraigment? front crank? I don't need top of the line as far as weight but durable. Thanks Mike
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Old 12-15-10, 10:57 AM
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For rims go with something strong. Double walled, eyeleted, 36 holes, wide enough to run at least 32mm tires (17 to 22mm inner rim width would allow a large range of tire widths). Some popular touring rim choices are: Velocity Dyad; Mavic A319, A719, and even A119; Sun CR18 (though I've read many mixed reviews on this rim); even Salsa Delgado Cross.
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Old 12-15-10, 12:33 PM
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Budget?

A couple things to think about...

1.) What is your budget for the build looking like?

2.) Does the frame you want to build up have clearance for large tires, and preferably cantilever brake studs?

I'm building up a touring frame right now and I believe all said and done i'll have about $1,200ish* in it. Although it will lack any form of snob appeal, it will be a solid bike and if I get a wild hare to ride it cross-country I think it would be capable. If I had a larger budget, I certainly could have made it lighter/nicer but at the $1,200 mark I don't think more money would make it any more reliable.

*This does not include racks or luggage, just the bicycle.

Because of the weight involved in self-supported touring, you'll want some decent sized rubber under you and the ability to stop all that weight when you are bombing down hills. If the bike won't fit anything larger than a 23 or 25mm tire you might want to consider purchasing a different frame. Likewise, many tourers prefer cantilever (or increasingly) v-brakes and even some are using disc brakes for maximum stopping power. Some people do tour with road calipers so this isn't a deal breaker though.
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Old 12-15-10, 12:45 PM
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How wide is the rear dropouts on the 720?
era: 7 speed 126, 8~9 speed 130, you can fit a Mountain bike hub on if it's 135.

New Shimano 11 speed IG hub may simplify the drivetrain as you can bypass the whole derailleur drivetrain entirely, and skip a lot of problems ..
Rohloff hub is a wider range ,
hundreds of people have traveled long distances and around the world , already,
using that internal gear hub.
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Old 12-15-10, 02:51 PM
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Is your old Trek optimum for touring? New wheels, drivetrain and tires could easily be $600,
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Old 12-15-10, 09:06 PM
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How much weight will you be carrying including yourself?

Typically a touring bike will have either 40 spoked wheels on the rear and 36 on front, or 40 all the way around; some touring bikes will use tandem wheels with 48 spokes on the rear and 40 on the front, usually that's an overkill but some do. These tandem and touring wheel configurations will have double eyeleted rims, double walled construction. Velocity Dyad is a very good choice for touring and they offer 36, 40 and 48 hole rims. I personally would not have a 36 spoke rim on the rear fully loaded, it can work but it's marginal. If your riding in remote areas you want a set of wheels that offer confidence.

Internal geared hubs are very expensive compared to standard derailleur type of system; and if either system broke on the road you could easily fix the derailleur type of system, but not so easily fix the geared hub system.

Will the bike have dual set of eyelets front and rear for fastening panniers and fenders?

You can never carry enough water, most bikes have provisions for just two water bottles, but thanks to gadgets you can now carry a third water bottle by using a strap on water bottle mount; one of the best one's on the market believe it or not comes from Bell...that's right, Walmart sells it!! for only $7 and it comes with the cage and a rubber casket to protect the strap from scratching your paint. This third mount is placed toward the bottom of the down tube so that the bottle will hang upside down, you then just move it so that with a 24 ounce bottle it will clear the front wheel. The same mount could be attached to your bars for a 4th water bottle. Don't get the mounts with velcro straps they will shift around like crazy. Also Minoura makes a nice mount called the QB90 $10 without cage, probably better then the Bell but both will work equally as well.

Disk brakes have problems with finding parts in a far flung remote area. Some argue with disk you don't have to worry about overheating your rims going down a steep grade loaded...problem with that is people have been touring for years up and down mountain grades all over this world and never had an issue. Hydraulics are a pain for touring, they can get air in the lines and drag on the rotors then you have to bleed them; what happens if a seal goes out? you got brake fluid all over everything which can destroy paint and your calipers. A little too much problematic for a touring bike. Kool Stop pads are excellent for rain and can be used on regular road style rim calipers or cantilevers.

Buy well made pannier frames because cheap ones can and do break. The best rack for the money is the Blackburn EX-2 rear frame and the Blackburn L-1 Standard Lo-Rider for the front. There are more expensive ones that are better but you don't gain enough to make it worth while, but anything less then the Blackburns and you could have issues.

Tires are a toss up between 3 different ones; Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Continental Touring, or the Vittoria Randonneur; the first two seem to be less prone to cuts and flats from what I've read. Then you should also carry at least one spare folding tire to get you to the next bike shop should you lose a main tire (I recommend carrying two if your riding through remote areas). Schwalbe again has a very good emergency tire for this purpose called the Durano. Obviously carry a spare tube, better yet carry two, I use thorn proof tubes in mine for tad more security. Again obviously carry at least a couple of dozen patches, I prefer glueless because they work great and without the need for glue. Tire boots are great for repairing slices from within and Superglue works great for repairing slices from without, combine the two together for best results.
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Old 12-16-10, 12:12 AM
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As mentioned above, the rear hub spacing is critical. If 126mm, would you stretch it out to 130mm?

What is the chainstay length? If it is short, you might be unhappy using such a frame for such a long ride.

If it was a Trek 720, you might have a good frame but you thought the 720 was the tubing specification? I would not suggest any components until I knew that this was a frame you would want on tour.

While there are a lot of people that have had epic trips on older equipment, a lot of the newer frames with larger diameter tubing and 135mm rear spacing have a lot to offer too.
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Old 12-16-10, 04:39 AM
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The 720 (road bike) were made in 83 in dark pewter with slate gray panel and head tube; 84 in Burgundy and 85 in Burgundy with gold graphics.

Is one of these yours? Here is the catalog from 1983: https://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochure1983Part2.htm also see here: https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/t...rekTouring.pdf

This is a 1st class touring bike with a long wheelbase Reynolds 531 lugged frame. The bike has 470mm chainstays.

You could easily upgrade the bike anyway you like, or you can just overhaul what is there and take it across country.

I've upgrade a sport/touring Trek 400 from the same era. Set up for commuting, this bike has a modern 20 speed Ultegra and Dura Ace drivetrain and wheelset that includes Mavic Open Pro rims. I did have the 126mm rear spacing professionally cold set to 130, but it wasn’t strictly necessary.

For touring, you could upgrade to a modern 3x9 drivetrain using Shimano shifters and derailleur. I would use this crank: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...-crankset.html.

Selecting wheels and final gearing will depend on your weight, your load and your fitness. The bike had as OE 27 inch rims and tires. Modern 27 inch rims are available, but not common. You should be able to install 700c rims with some adjustment to the brakes.


Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-16-10 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 12-16-10, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
The 720 (road bike) were made in 83 in dark pewter with slate gray panel and head tube; 84 in Burgundy and 85 in Burgundy with gold graphics.

Is one of these yours? Here is the catalog from 1983: https://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochure1983Part2.htm

This is a 1st class touring bike with a long wheelbase Reynolds 531 lugged frame.

You could easily upgrade the bike anyway you like, or you can just overhaul what is there and take it across country.

I've upgrade a sport/touring Trek 400 from the same era. Set up for commuting, this bike has a modern 20 speed Ultegra and Dura Ace drivetrain and wheelset that includes Mavic Open Pro rims. I did have the 126mm rear spacing professionally cold set to 130, but it wasn’t strictly necessary.

For touring, you could upgrade to a modern 3x9 drivetrain using Shimano shifters and derailleur. and would use this crank: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...-crankset.html.

Selecting wheels and final gearing will depend on your weight, your load and your fitness.

That Trek was one of the BEST touring bikes made in it's day and is still in heavy use. The bike was made to do heavy touring. The only real "upgrade" you may consider is going back to the stock (original) gear cluster and ring gears. It appears in the photo that the gear cluster is a aftermarket sport gear range that someone replaced the touring gears with; and the chainrings lack the 3rd climb out gear which appears as though someone replaced the chain rings. It also appears that someone replaced the rear derailleur with a short cage derailleur which won't handle touring gears like a long cager will. The rest I can't tell, but most tourers prefer older clip style pedals vs the clipless design, though there are good touring shoes now on the market designed for the clipless system.
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Old 12-16-10, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
That Trek was one of the BEST touring bikes made in it's day and is still in heavy use. The bike was made to do heavy touring. The only real "upgrade" you may consider is going back to the stock (original) gear cluster and ring gears. It appears in the photo that the gear cluster is a aftermarket sport gear range that someone replaced the touring gears with; and the chainrings lack the 3rd climb out gear which appears as though someone replaced the chain rings. It also appears that someone replaced the rear derailleur with a short cage derailleur which won't handle touring gears like a long cager will. The rest I can't tell, but most tourers prefer older clip style pedals vs the clipless design, though there are good touring shoes now on the market designed for the clipless system.
Dude, The picture in the post is not the OP's bike. Its my commuter!
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Old 12-16-10, 05:30 AM
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Oops, well then never mind!!! Great looking bike by the way. I'll go back to bed now.
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Old 12-16-10, 07:58 AM
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Hi Thanks all, I have much to consider, First i will dig the bike out of storage and check the specs, Then decide what i am working with, if in fact it one: possible to upgrade and second how much this would cost. A new touring bike I figure is 1000 - 1200 If I can get away with building this up for $600 or$700 That wil work. I am not all that technically savvy on all the specs . I will post the model and style trek and see if it is doable. I bought it back in the 80s I don't remeber it being a strickly a touring bike, I know it dd not come with racks or campy componets probably sun tour. I will post info and again ask if this is doable thank you so much. The other question is doing the work myself. I planned on having a bike shop do the upgrade. i have some mechanical capability. What is the better way to complete this upgrade myself? myself compared to bike shop. I would have the investment of tools, stand etc. Thanks again for your suggestions love the photos of the old treks.

Last edited by twerney; 12-16-10 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 12-16-10, 09:02 AM
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twerney, there really isn't much to consider when you/we don't know what you have, whether the fit for the old bike is still right, the condition of the wheels and whether you and your gear are optimum for the wheels/frame. When you do then questions about specific components or choices can be considered.
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Old 12-16-10, 01:26 PM
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You are right all I know is it is a 1980 Trek renolds i will dig it out of storage and be more specific thanks
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Old 12-16-10, 02:15 PM
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If it's an Older 126 rear end spread, I highly recommend Phil Wood freewheel hubs.
Oversize axle design is un bendable..
7 speed freewheels can be gotten with low gear ratios,
and if you build your 700c Wheel with a 48 spoke setup ,
a single broken spoke can almost be ignored,
I do a 5 minute field truing job, and then borrow the big spanner to spin off the freewheel
when Conveniently borrowed.
Friction and ratchet sun-tour Bar end shifters are reliable , I have found.
index lever/derailleur synchronization problems bypassed.

Some people use a 48 spoke front rim as well, so you have the spare rear rim with you,
any front wheel you can find will do as a field replacement then.
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Old 12-17-10, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by twerney View Post
What is the better way to complete this upgrade myself? myself compared to bike shop. I would have the investment of tools, stand etc. Thanks again for your suggestions love the photos of the old treks.
Buy the tools and learn to wrench on it yourself! If you are riding cross country and you break down in the middle of nowhere what are you going to do if you can't fix your bike yourself? You take for granted how easy it is to get your bike to a shop right now but when you are miles from home and miles from the closest bike shop you really need to be at least a little self sufficient. There are a few things probably not worth buying (headset press, steerer tube cutting guide, etc.) but for the basic assembly and adjustment you need to do that so you understand how everything works.
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Old 12-17-10, 06:20 AM
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Point well a taken Ryan, I will (after deciding if it is compatable for touring) What is a good overhaul book maybe a bit dated for an older bike?
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Old 12-17-10, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by twerney View Post
Point well a taken Ryan, I will (after deciding if it is compatable for touring) What is a good overhaul book maybe a bit dated for an older bike?
Serious answer: Google.com is the best bike repair guide.

Google can direct you to all kinds of info from old threads from this and other forums, how to videos on youtube, and how-to directions from websites like bike tutor and park tools. The internet as a whole contains more information than any single book ever will. If you really get stuck or are unsure about something and google fails you, the forums here (mechanics, touring) can probably help you out.
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Old 12-17-10, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
How much weight will you be carrying including yourself?

Typically a touring bike will have either 40 spoked wheels on the rear and 36 on front, or 40 all the way around; some touring bikes will use tandem wheels with 48 spokes on the rear and 40 on the front, usually that's an overkill but some do. These tandem and touring wheel configurations will have double eyeleted rims, double walled construction. Velocity Dyad is a very good choice for touring and they offer 36, 40 and 48 hole rims. I personally would not have a 36 spoke rim on the rear fully loaded, it can work but it's marginal. If your riding in remote areas you want a set of wheels that offer confidence.

Internal geared hubs are very expensive compared to standard derailleur type of system; and if either system broke on the road you could easily fix the derailleur type of system, but not so easily fix the geared hub system.

Will the bike have dual set of eyelets front and rear for fastening panniers and fenders?

You can never carry enough water, most bikes have provisions for just two water bottles, but thanks to gadgets you can now carry a third water bottle by using a strap on water bottle mount; one of the best one's on the market believe it or not comes from Bell...that's right, Walmart sells it!! for only $7 and it comes with the cage and a rubber casket to protect the strap from scratching your paint. This third mount is placed toward the bottom of the down tube so that the bottle will hang upside down, you then just move it so that with a 24 ounce bottle it will clear the front wheel. The same mount could be attached to your bars for a 4th water bottle. Don't get the mounts with velcro straps they will shift around like crazy. Also Minoura makes a nice mount called the QB90 $10 without cage, probably better then the Bell but both will work equally as well.

Disk brakes have problems with finding parts in a far flung remote area. Some argue with disk you don't have to worry about overheating your rims going down a steep grade loaded...problem with that is people have been touring for years up and down mountain grades all over this world and never had an issue. Hydraulics are a pain for touring, they can get air in the lines and drag on the rotors then you have to bleed them; what happens if a seal goes out? you got brake fluid all over everything which can destroy paint and your calipers. A little too much problematic for a touring bike. Kool Stop pads are excellent for rain and can be used on regular road style rim calipers or cantilevers.

Buy well made pannier frames because cheap ones can and do break. The best rack for the money is the Blackburn EX-2 rear frame and the Blackburn L-1 Standard Lo-Rider for the front. There are more expensive ones that are better but you don't gain enough to make it worth while, but anything less then the Blackburns and you could have issues.

Tires are a toss up between 3 different ones; Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Continental Touring, or the Vittoria Randonneur; the first two seem to be less prone to cuts and flats from what I've read. Then you should also carry at least one spare folding tire to get you to the next bike shop should you lose a main tire (I recommend carrying two if your riding through remote areas). Schwalbe again has a very good emergency tire for this purpose called the Durano. Obviously carry a spare tube, better yet carry two, I use thorn proof tubes in mine for tad more security. Again obviously carry at least a couple of dozen patches, I prefer glueless because they work great and without the need for glue. Tire boots are great for repairing slices from within and Superglue works great for repairing slices from without, combine the two together for best results.
wait, so is it a really bad idea to tour with a 32 spoke front wheel?
I'm going taking my Surly Cross Check to the shop to have my stock front wheel repaired, but I'm recycling the old Shimano Deore hub which is meant for 32 spokes, right? and I'm going to use an Alex Adventurer rim. This is my commuting/touring bike. Is this a fatal mistake? I just don't want to spend anymore money to have the front wheel replaced. It's all due to an accident a few months ago in which the rim got scraped pretty good from getting caught in a gap in the pavement.
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Old 12-17-10, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by albertmoreno View Post
wait, so is it a really bad idea to tour with a 32 spoke front wheel?
I'm going taking my Surly Cross Check to the shop to have my stock front wheel repaired, but I'm recycling the old Shimano Deore hub which is meant for 32 spokes, right? and I'm going to use an Alex Adventurer rim. This is my commuting/touring bike. Is this a fatal mistake? I just don't want to spend anymore money to have the front wheel replaced. It's all due to an accident a few months ago in which the rim got scraped pretty good from getting caught in a gap in the pavement.
it's not fatal, it's a good choice if you're going to be touring. The front wheel in inherently stronger than the rear given the same rim and number of spokes. For a front wheel with a strong heavy rim like the Adventurer it's fine, but if you were a 300lb guy thinking of carrying 25lbs on the front fork I'd consider something with more spokes and even heavier rim. I bet a 32hole front wheel will last longer than a 36hole rear wheel given the same rim.
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Old 12-17-10, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
it's not fatal, it's a good choice if you're going to be touring. The front wheel in inherently stronger than the rear given the same rim and number of spokes. For a front wheel with a strong heavy rim like the Adventurer it's fine, but if you were a 300lb guy thinking of carrying 25lbs on the front fork I'd consider something with more spokes and even heavier rim. I bet a 32hole front wheel will last longer than a 36hole rear wheel given the same rim.
Okay, 32 spoke Alex Adventurer rim on the front and eventually a 36 spoke wheel on the rear when the current one gives out. Thanks.
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Old 12-17-10, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by albertmoreno View Post
wait, so is it a really bad idea to tour with a 32 spoke front wheel?
I'm going taking my Surly Cross Check to the shop to have my stock front wheel repaired, but I'm recycling the old Shimano Deore hub which is meant for 32 spokes, right? and I'm going to use an Alex Adventurer rim. This is my commuting/touring bike. Is this a fatal mistake? I just don't want to spend anymore money to have the front wheel replaced. It's all due to an accident a few months ago in which the rim got scraped pretty good from getting caught in a gap in the pavement.
You can get away with the wheels you have if your not a clydesdale and if you don't pack heavy. If you weigh 145 pounds and are going to carry 50 pounds, 30 on the rear and 20 on the front then you will be fine. But if you weigh 224 pounds and want to carry an additional 70 pounds of gear split 60/40 your probably not going to make it very far before your at a bike shop shelling out money for new rims. You can wait till they give out like you said, but are you touring when it gives out or just commuting? If your just commuting the rims will probably last a long time.

It sounded like you were going to respoke the wheel anyways, is this true? if so you already have the labor and spokes spent. So all that's left to buy is a new Deore hub with 36 holes and a new Sun Rhyno Lite which are very good rims at a low cost around $45, plus the hub at $35 and the other costs you were going to spend to respoke. Just a thought.
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Old 12-19-10, 09:29 AM
  #23  
hybridbkrdr
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Your questions are pretty vague so I'll just talk about my personal preferences.

I'm in the process of building a touring bike. (For those wondering where I got the money because I said I have to eat cheap, it's the money from two Christmases. I got the frameset and some parts on one Christmas and getting like 90% of the rest this year.)

I have a Nashbar touring frameset.
I chose an 8 speed Sora crankset with 52T-42-30 with an 8 speed Sora front derailleur. Now, the Sora crankset I got from Chainreactioncycles and it's now out of stock. But, if you want a road 8 speed crankset, I know there are still some 2203 cranksets around. I chose a Shimano BB-UN54 bottom bracket. I also chose Black Ops transparent orange plastic pedals.
I chose an 8 speed Shimano Alivio rear derailleur and Shimano HG-50 (Alivio) 11-32T eight speed cassette. The chain was out of stock when I wanted to order but I wanted to order a KMC X8-99 eight speed chain.
The shifters I chose are 8 speed Ultegra bar end shifters. And they'll be mounted on Paul Thumbies. The shifters will be used in friction mode. (If I didn't want a wider chain for friction shifting, I would have chosen a Tiagra front derailleur and Deore rear derailleur. But Shimano decided to be snobs and not produce Deore and Tiagra in 8 speed anymore.)
The brake levers and V-brakes are Shimano Deore M510. The handlebars are white Brave Stiffee I got from Chainreactioncycles. Grips are Strida with leather. I also chose Jagwire yellow V-brake mountain bike shoes (I'll use the Shimano ones to replace worn ones on another bike).
I chose a silver Zoom adjustable stem and Origin8 silver spacers and an Origin8 orange headset with sealed bearings.
I chose an Origin8 classic adjustable seatpost in polished silver, Origin8 orange seatpost clamp and a WTB Freedom Relax saddle (with the hole in the middle). This saddle might be a tad large for touring but I thought I'd start with shorter tours and see how it goes before going longer distances.
For the rear wheel, I found a WTB Freedom Ryder 23 rim (36 hole) and a Tiagra rear hub (36 hole, both on sale hehe). I plan to buy silver DT Swiss 14G (2.0mm) Champion spokes and brass nipples but there not ordered yet.
For the front wheel, I want (with my birthday money) a dynamo hub wheel with a Rigida Snyper rim and Deore LX dynamo hub (36 hole). I want to order this from bikexperts in Germany. Anyway, from the same place I want to order Continental TourRide 700x37 tires in creme color and Continental tubes. And Bush & Muller Lumotec Lyt front light and a D Toplight rear light (both with standlight).
I chose an adjustable Sunlite backrack and Axiom Robson trunk (well, I'm starting with shorter distance touring). I also chose an old style looking brass Origin8 bell, a white Cateye computer and Sunlite yellow bottle cages.
Now, some people might prefer a 48T crankset or even smaller for touring. Had I chosen a 48T, I would have gone with a Shimano Alivio crankset. And if I wanted indexed thumb shifters, I would have chosen a Deore front and rear derailleur. But, going 9 speed would make it easier to go Deore or higher. I know there are Deore LX groupsets from Bike24 which is now considered a trekking group. I think the old LX was replaced with SLX.
I suppose if I really wanted to put a lot more money on the bike, I'd go with an XT rear derailleur and more powerful light. Although, in my case, I'm not totally sure if getting an XT with friction shifting would actually make much of a difference.
I just wanted to note though that I read on this forum that road cranksets places your feet closer to the frame which supposedly is more comfortable. Though this might make me want to choose a narrower saddle.
Well, those are my ideas. I can't wait to receive my next three orders. It shows they've been charged to my credit card, I just haven't reveiced them yet. Maybe I'll make a thread where I'll post pictures even before the bike is complete just for the fun of it.
By the way, I also ordered Phil Wood grease to put some of things together myself. Although I'll admit, for things like installing bottom bracket, if the price from your local shop to install it is less than the cost of the tool to do it, then in my case, I want to wait until I get installation prices before ordering tools to do it myself or I might get some stuff done at the local bike shop.

Last edited by hybridbkrdr; 12-19-10 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 12-19-10, 05:46 PM
  #24  
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Hi all Thanks again for the info, The Trek is a 600 series
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Old 12-19-10, 06:06 PM
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Hi a link to the trek I have what do you think about making this a tourer https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CDQQ9QEwAQ
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