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Are Tourists some sort of dinosaur in the world of cycling?

Old 12-30-10, 08:58 AM
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Are Tourists some sort of dinosaur in the world of cycling?

The reason I ask is that there seems to be little or no obvious demand for touring equipment. I felt this way after several experiences with local bike shops. At one, a couple years ago, when I mentioned that the next bike I would be looking for would be a touring bike the owner immediately tried to sell me a custom made titanium frame because "nobodymakes touring bikes anymore." Having just looked at Surly, Rivendell, Soma and Trek models, I knew he was lying to make a sale or horribly misinformed (it was a TREK store). Another when I was pricing a Surly LHT to order, said he didn't carry "weird stuff like that until he has some extra money to spend." And recently while asking another about interrupter levers, the sales person looked at me blankly and asked,"when you say touring bike, what do you mean, a hybrid?"
I get the creepy feeling we are a maniacal fringe group haunting the nether regions of a larger maniacal fringe group. Hell, when I started cycling 40 years ago, traveling by bike was one of the biggest fascinations I had. Now that I have time to pursue it, I am surprised at how little demand there is.

Marc
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Old 12-30-10, 09:05 AM
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It is true that touring is not the MOST popular form of cycling anymore, but is however, still getting more and more popular world wide on a daily/yearly basis. Especially with Gas prices as they have been over the past 4 years. There are plenty of Touring bikes out there and anybody who says there isn't is clearly lying.

As you said, Surly, Soma, Giant, Rivendell, etc.. are all out there and great companies. If you are going to get a LHT find a Surley Dealer or just order it online. I have found that just turning your favorite capable bike into a touring bike works just as well. (I converted my FCR 3 FLatbar into a Flatbar Touring bike and then into Dropbar Touring bike) All at way less money than even talking to a Trek Dealer. (I did buy their Interchange Pannier bags however)

Anyways, my point being that, it is what you make of it. Everything is out there, and if it isn't the concept for making it yourself is and available. There is still plenty of demand for touring, it's just hard to notice with all of the cars whizzing by. Check out Adventurecycling.com or google bike touring and you will see plenty of options, groups, bikes, and equipment available. ENJOY!
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Old 12-30-10, 09:11 AM
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Touring cyclists tend to buy good quality stuff once that will last them a long time. Also, there aren't that many people that go cycletouring. Because of those two reasons, it's very difficult for shops to stock a lot of touring stuff. Roadies and mtb racers, on the other hand, are always looking for the next upgrade to increase their (perceived) competitive edge, and therefore spend a lot of money buying loads of new gear every season.

I never blame shops for not stocking a ton of touring stuff -- they have to sell what the majority buys in order to pay the bills. What sets a shop apart then, is their knowledge, willingness, and ability to set you up with some quality touring gear if you want it. They may have to order it, and I'm okay with that, but the service and knowledge is why you go to the shop instead of ordering online.

The shop I work at carries VERY little touring gear, and I probably have one customer a month come in looking for touring specific gear (usually to double as heavy duty commuting gear), and while I can't stock a bunch of my favorites (store space is very expensive), myself and the staff is knowledgeable on touring and touring gear and can make recommendations, pick the customer's brain, and come up with a solution to their needs.

The shops that recommended custom Ti bikes or hybrids are just ignorant.
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Old 12-30-10, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by irwin7638
The reason I ask is that there seems to be little or no obvious demand for touring equipment. I felt this way after several experiences with local bike shops. At one, a couple years ago, when I mentioned that the next bike I would be looking for would be a touring bike the owner immediately tried to sell me a custom made titanium frame because "nobodymakes touring bikes anymore." Having just looked at Surly, Rivendell, Soma and Trek models, I knew he was lying to make a sale or horribly misinformed (it was a TREK store). Another when I was pricing a Surly LHT to order, said he didn't carry "weird stuff like that until he has some extra money to spend." And recently while asking another about interrupter levers, the sales person looked at me blankly and asked,"when you say touring bike, what do you mean, a hybrid?"
I get the creepy feeling we are a maniacal fringe group haunting the nether regions of a larger maniacal fringe group. Hell, when I started cycling 40 years ago, traveling by bike was one of the biggest fascinations I had. Now that I have time to pursue it, I am surprised at how little demand there is.

Marc
I'd ere on the side of the shop owner being misinformed rather than malicious.

Bicycle touring...loaded touring, not the 'ride across some state in a giant rolling party with someone carrying all your gear and there to rescue your worthless butt if you happen to get a hang nail' style touring...has always been a fringe of a fringe. It's also cyclical...one could even say bicyclical It was extremely hot in the late 70's and very early 80's. It cooled significantly when production mountain bikes hit the market in 1983. It's only started warming up again really well in the last 7 to 10 years.

Even then, I'd suspect that there are only a few thousand people who have done loaded touring in the US. Just like getting people to bicycle commute, there are too many psychological barriers for them to overcome to even try it, much less embrace it. Anyone who has done self-contained, unsupported touring has probably had the same experiences/questions when they tell someone what they did on vacation: "Aren't you afraid of (put your greatest fears here)?", "I could never do that.", "Are you crazy?", "Do you have a death wish?", "Where you do you sleep?", "What do you eat?", etc.

Those of us who do embrace the fringe of the fringe don't do ourselves any favors either. A roadie or mountain biker will purchase a new bike on close to a 2 year cycle (another bicycle) in a hunt for a new edge or to chase new technology. Some of that technology is actually worthwhile (carbon, dual suspension, etc.) and makes the ride more pleasant or easier or gives you more control.

We touring cyclist...the most retro of retrogrouches...buy a touring bike and use the same damned thing for 20+ years without any changes or upgrades or updates. We embrace that. We think it wonderful. We think it makes us mavericks. But it kills our tiny little corner niche of a niche market. Who's going to make touring bikes and touring bike equipment when they can only sell a few hundred units per year and then not make another sale for 20+ years? The only reason the market is warming now may be because all those retrogrouches out there have worn out their ancient touring bikes and have to replace them

Don't believe me? Look at what makes a 'good' touring bike...the same stuff that make a 'good' touring bike in 1983: steel frame, bar end shifters, cantilever brakes, square taper cranks, threaded headsets, 8 speed gear clusters (with some people wanting freewheels). People even venerate, and desire, nearly 30 year old bikes.

The bike manufacturers have even missed a golden opportunity to resurrect the touring bike. With bicycle commuting also heating up, you'd think that a touring bike with its ruggedness and its ability to carry just about anything while being dead stable would be an ideal vehicle for commuting. But the cyclocross bike is being held up as the shining example of the 'ideal' commuter bike. I have one. It's okay but it's also a platypus...not really well designed for the task it's being used for.

So, fellow tourers, put a damned crowbar in your wallet and upgrade that 20+ year old touring bike. If 10,000 people walk into a shop and ask for a new touring bike this year, we might just start a movement
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Old 12-30-10, 09:38 AM
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Yes.
But we isn't extinct - quite yet.
(And we have big teeth)
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Old 12-30-10, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by FKMTB07

The shops that recommended custom Ti bikes or hybrids are just ignorant.
If you can't find a touring bike, a hybrid can be a nice alternative. A couple of years ago, I noticed that some of the Cannondale hybrids have a similar geometry to the Cannondale touring bikes. The Trek hybrids would make okay touring bikes frames (I wouldn't give a nickel for the parts hanging off them). Many of them even have low-rider mounts on the fork. They aren't as good as some of the 'real' touring bikes but they are better than using a cyclocross or road bike.
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Old 12-30-10, 10:02 AM
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Oh, I don't think touring cyclists are dinosaurs, kooks and weirdos maybe, but that's not all of us. I kid, in my mind, it is just something a lot of people love to do, it is sort of a "either you get it, or you don't" kind of thing. Some people wonder, why in the world would you want to load a bunch of stuff on your bicycle and take off, ride all day, camp, talk to strangers, see other places, and worst of all, be alone! They don't get it and that's okay by me, sort of expected, I guess.

I said that to say this. Since it is not something very many cyclists take part in, the demand for bikes and parts/ equipment are out of the main stream. There are two local bike shops that I go to, and sometimes order things through, but have never expected or saw the need for them to carry touring bikes. Touring specific items can usually be ordered or found online with no problem, but because supporting local business is important, I keep the LBS in mind when looking.

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Old 12-30-10, 10:03 AM
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Yeah, I can't fault those guys for not having a fleet of touring bikes on the floor, but some of the things they said are amazingly ridiculous. I bet they wonder why so many people buy bikes off the internet.

Just because you haven't found a knowledgeable shop doesn't mean things are all that bad for a touring bike shopper. There seems to be much more available now than there was, say 1998-2003.
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Old 12-30-10, 10:13 AM
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One must have a license to race - and the USCF reports there are ~63,000 bicycle racing license holders in the USA.

Needing a license to tour is a humorous idea. Not withstanding that, the Adventure Cycling Association has ~44,000 dues-paying members.
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Old 12-30-10, 10:14 AM
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Let's hope that we share the longevity with our namesake. Dinosaurs were the dominant life form on earth for 160 million years. Compare that to mountain bikers, who began their ascent to bipedal hegemony a trifling 30 years ago!
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Old 12-30-10, 10:31 AM
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Not dinasoar but niche market.

Its weird that in cycling the mss market is for ultralight sports or ultra-tough full suss MTB. The midground for normal, practical riding is niche.
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Old 12-30-10, 10:41 AM
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I think it depends where you are. Walk into most shops in San Francisco, Portland, or Seattle, and you will likely find some touring bikes and gear. A lot of those are indeed catering to commuters because a lot of the gear is the same, and as someone mentioned, touring bikes make good commuters. Here in tennessee it is less likely to find a shop that has touring gear. I was in a shop yesterday and couldn't even find full coverage fenders, only those seatpost ones, and forget about finding nice panniers and the like.... There is however one shop here that caters to commuters, so consequently they have a lot of touring stuff. They also carry a few touring bikes, such as the Sutra and Vaya.

In the end I guess we are a small part of the cycling world, but it seems to be growing. There have been quite a few new models of touring bikes that have come out in the past two years.
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Old 12-30-10, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by irwin7638
And recently while asking another about interrupter levers, the sales person looked at me blankly and asked,"when you say touring bike, what do you mean, a hybrid?"
To be fair, that isn't a bad question. When I think of touring, I think of loaded unsupported touring, but others have different ideas what "touring" means. I often have customers come in looking for a "touring" bike. I don't think of a Surly LHT right then, I asked them questions to clarify what they want the bike for. 95% of the time, they don't want a bike for loaded touring, but are looking for something else. They never even thought about a weekend camping trip. Usually they want a bike for something like the MS150 or some charity century ride.

At the shop I used to work at, most of us commuted to work and toured. We didn't carry much touring equipment and no touring bikes. A couple of coworkers (I don't own one) would bring their own LHTs in so customers could test ride one. Everyone that test rode it, bought it. We kept telling the owner to stock a couple of sizes. After he noticed that the test riders bought them, we started to stock a few sizes. We also expanded our racks and panniers stock.

The shop I am at now didn't have anything for loaded touring. After pestering the manager and having a couple of customers buy some things, we now stock one quality pannier and a couple of ok racks. But still not a great selection of equipment and no bikes. The shop does not stock commuting and touring equipment, because we rarely have anyone come in looking for it.
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Old 12-30-10, 11:26 AM
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, I'm 28, been riding off and on since I was about 20. I started commuting last semester (going back to school for engineering) and I'm liking it so much, I'm looking at doing some short self supported trips, hopefully long ones in the future. So people are joining the fold.
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Old 12-30-10, 11:28 AM
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The local bike shop here (the only one around for 20 miles) has a mixed range but they don't carry too much. They have panniers and racks but they aren't the best suited for long term usage. Whatever I need I just order online.

I go in looking for touring stuff because I commute and want something that will last a long time. I built my own panniers because I couldn't find any nearby that I liked. I went in the shop to look around and he suggested Ortlieb Classics, which I ordered and shall be here this afternoon. Other than that, they mostly catering to the weekend cyclists and weight weenies.

People give me strange looks when I tell them I cycle commute and do all my shopping on my bike. I can't imagine how they would react if I told them I was planning an unsupported tour from Salt Lake City to Yellowstone this summer.
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Old 12-30-10, 11:35 AM
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THIS is a Tourist.



And yes, it is a dinosaur.
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Old 12-30-10, 11:45 AM
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some people tour with out knowing it. throw stuff in a backpack and strap a small 1 person tent to the bike and go camping. its not fringe or dinosaur-ish, it's just obscured by the name. after all you got touring (professional, like the tour de france), touring (like RAGBRAI), and touring (strap stuff to your bike and go).
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Old 12-30-10, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelW
Its weird that in cycling the mss market is for ultralight sports or ultra-tough full suss MTB. The midground for normal, practical riding is niche.
Sexy marketing makes those things "cool" that's why.
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Old 12-30-10, 12:20 PM
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A knowledgeable L<>S in ANY hobby is an incredibly rare find. When I was in the reefing hobby ($10k saltwater aquariums) it was the same rhetoric on reefing forums: idiots at LFS (local fish store) are a plenty. We really only depended on each other for quality information. It's the same for bike shops. Most of the employees there are either not "hobbyists" or only follow a single school of thought - set by the LBS itself. Nobody in there is spending hours of research a day on the latest tech, different schools of thought, etc.
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Old 12-30-10, 12:32 PM
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The touring bike as such is a rare breed, but there are plenty of people touring on all sorts of rigs. I've seen touring bikes, road bikes pulling trailers, reconditioned older mountain bikes and modified hybrids. Touring is an accepting field and there are plenty of ways to make it work.

What I notice most is what I see on the roads when I'm touring. I will encounter at least one other cycle tourist every day I'm out touring on my bike. Often, I'll see many others on loaded bikes. I realize my experiences may not be the norm everywhere, but we are by no means on the fringe of the greater cycling community.
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Old 12-30-10, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
THIS is a Tourist.



And yes, it is a dinosaur.
Looks more like a well aged bottle of wine to me!
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Old 12-30-10, 02:16 PM
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To tour in the summer in Northern hemisphere you need to take time off,
during the busiest part of the bicycle sales and repair, season.
that is part of why young people that work in bike shops don't know squat about touring.
they have no experience.

the winter season typical layoff would be a better time to go, then you need to flip hemispheres
or at least travel the mid latitudes .

plan ahead, and save money in a low paying trade.
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Old 12-30-10, 02:28 PM
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Until we went on our first tour, my wife didn't really believe in the existence of tourers. Sometimes we'd see one touring bike when we'd drive over the North Cascades on Hwy. 20, but that was about it. Once in 35 years of driving that highway a couple times a year, we saw a party of tourers. Must have been some sort of organized loaded tour. Once we met a couple on touring bikes at a restaurant in the flats before the mountains start. They said, "Are there any hills on this road?" They had a road map. Once we saw a young couple, 4 panniers apiece, just starting the first real climb, the female in the lead with about a 40 cadence and a look on her face that said, "I want to kill him. Now, or later?"

We're used to seeing at least 20 roadies anytime we drive anywhere on rural roads near the population centers, so she didn't really believe in your existence at all. But riding along Hwy. 101 in northern CA convinced her that yes, you do exist, and I'm not as big a nutcase as she thought.

As you can see by the threads here, many people tour without "touring bikes." We don't have a touring bike. We have a bike that can be adapted to tour. We expect and prefer to buy everything we need off the web. Brick and mortar stores simply can't cater to this teeny fringe, because they can't stock the huge variety of equipment that our varying philosophies demand. Show up for a roadie ride and everyone has the same rig. Brand varies, wheels and saddles vary, but it's the same rig. More like a car and much easier to stock for.
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Old 12-30-10, 02:44 PM
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More bike touring 'across the pond'...


Europe/UK has more paid holiday jobs so has more holiday related businesses
to cater to their citizens and visitors.

4 weeks on average ... by law. August , typically.

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-30-10 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 12-30-10, 04:31 PM
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On a related note, I was recently asked to put together an itinerary for a beginners unsupported tour here in Western Michigan. The group is a BSA Venturing organization, bear in mind that these are adults, high school and college age students who have been involved in all kinds of stressful outdoor activities all their lives. Many of them think nothing of packing up a bunch of gear, carrying it around for a week on their back in the wilderness, after all they've been doing it since they were 10 or 11 years old. When faced with the idea of cycletouring, they were totally confused, had no idea how they could possibly transport "all that stuff" and actually believed it would be a harder week than hoofin' it.
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