I don't know the final build weight until I can find out what the frame weight would be. Their other Ti mountain bike, the El Mariachi, is a 2lb difference, so I'm guessing it will be something similar. I would expect the bike to be significantly less than 30 lbs. I also think the price difference is $1500, not $1700, but that's still a lot of money. All that being said, I don't feel like it IS a lot of money if it's something that I will use a lot. Regarding other items, I would also spend up to save weight (not necessarily for ultralight gear that would have durability and performance concerns), so it's not like I would be blowing the whole budget on a frame and then buying heavier gear as a result.

given my extra poundage I'd be better off spending $1500 on a personal trainer to help burn off fat.

The three Fargos I've seen firsthand were all around 35 pounds with a typical XT, mavic, schwalbe xr/supreme and tubus rack type build... I would expect the ti version to be at least 30 pounds - even with a 'sprightly' build to save weight but maintain durability...

Hmm. I have a full suspension CF mountain bike that weighs 25 lbs with an XT build. I don't know the frame weight with the shock, but I have to believe the Ti Fargo frame should weigh less b/c it doesn't have a shock. So, a build with a front suspension should be weight a little less than my CF bike. If I use a regular fork, that's about another 1.5 lb savings. As such, no suspension plus a tubus rack on the back should be around 25 lbs, and add an extra 1.5 lbs for a front suspension.

As far as durability goes, high quality mountain bikes are meant to take a beating and they very often take that beating by heavy riders. My combined body and loaded weight (gear will be less than 30 lbs, including rear racks and bags) should be less than many of these guys, and I'm not going to be doing anything crazy when all loaded up. Furthermore, I'm not planning to ride it through Siberia, so I'm not going to be building and packing for every kind of "what if" scenario. It's more likely that I will be doing 2 weeks at a time or less in the US with a friend or two.

I, my wife, and my 12 year old son found the Rans Stratus XP to be the Perfect Touring Bike while riding from Boston to Seattle:
-a well made bike (made in USA)
-rides on any surface
-rides in comfort (no hand/wrist/butt/neck/back pain!!!)
-takes wide range of tire sizes (very fat to very skinny)
http://www.ransbikes.com/StratusXP10.htm

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...00736_0432.jpg

looks great fair play to you but not for me thanks.

Tektro Mini-V brakes can be used with STI/road levers. Set up is a little more critical, but they are nice brakes and really cheap.

Stick with tig welding and call Co-Motion. I think they are the absolute best touring bikes in the world.

From what I've read about them, they require more futzing to make them work than cantilevers do. Cantilever set up is already difficult enough, why go to something that even worse?

If I was going to get a touring bike, I'd start with this frame..

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/grand-tour/

But I would change the color..

Comparing cheese to chalk. Carbon fiber has lower density (1.8g/ml) than aluminum (2.8g/ml) which is less dense than titanium (4.5g/ml) which is less dense than steel (7.7g/ml). A full suspension Specialized Epic frame, for example, weighs in at around 4.5 lbs without the shock. An equivalent carbon frame, assuming that it was built exactly the same as the aluminum frame, would weigh 2.5 lbs. An equivalent titanium frame would weigh 7.8 lbs and an equivalent steel frame would weigh a very piggish 14.3 lbs.

Of course you could build the titanium and steel bikes with less material but not too much less...not without great cost. A titanium frame would still only kiss the weight of the aluminum frame.

Generally speaking, don't replace aluminum with titanium if you want to save weight. My aluminum Cannondale T800 with racks and nothing particularly lightweight in components weighs in at a svelte 28 lbs. And most of those high quality mountain bikes that are meant to take a beating are made with aluminum.

looks great and a good price.

Heinz Stücke knows a thing or two about bike touring. He says he toured first 44 years on a 3-speed custom frame rig. Since 2004 he has gotten two folders, mainly to reduce hassle and expenses with airlines.

I think this is a good argument for "any bike that works for you and gets used is best enough".

--J

Equivalent? How? On some g/ml basis? Equivalency should be considered on an equal strength basis. A high quality butted steel frame is a bit heavier than a equivalent-strength titanium frame and is probably lighter than an equivalent-strength aluminum frame. For touring, if money is no object, titanium is best. But Reynolds 725 steel comes close enough to the best for most well-heeled tourers.

All this talk of the "best" touring bike is like a group of people arguing about which of them has the "best" spouse, or asking where in the world is the "best" place to live; it all depends on your own perspective, your own budget, and exactly what you are looking for. I've never really been a picky person, but I like my 1988 Trek 520; I haven't toured on it yet, but I have commuted over 700 miles on it, much of that under load, and I've found it is very stable, easy to ride in a straight line at slow speeds, and can be fast if it needs to (though not as fast as a racing rig). (It has all of the brackets for a front rack, which I have purchased but not yet installed on it, so I'm not sure how it rides with a front load). The 520 is known as the Trek corporation's premier touring bicycle; in fact, I think it is the only touring model they still manufacture on a yearly basis.

Mine is fairly easy to work on, I've already been able to replace the bottom bracket, cranks, and barend shifters on it with no problem. Used Trek 520s can also come at a reasonable price, I got mine for $400 on Craig's list, and on Ebay they probably usually go for between $400-$1000 depending on the year, condition, accessories, and frame size. I've not really ridden any other touring rigs, so I can't say that it's the "best," but it's a solid bike, and is widely available as a "used" bike, making it bit more affordable than a 5 jillion dollar brand-new Lance Armstrong bike. I know it's more comfortable than my Trek 400 Elance, which was pretty comfortable itself, based on a few thousand miles of short touring.

Cool your jets there, Hamsterboy:rolleyes:

For comparison of the weight of the materials, equivalent means the same amount of material. You apparently missed the 'assuming that it was built exactly the same as the aluminum frame' part of the statement. By that I meant same wall thickness and same configuration...basically the same volume of material. Yes, I know that you can build bikes with less material depending on what you use and how you use it. However SBRDude was the one comparing cheese to chalk.

On a materials basis carbon is lighter than aluminum is lighter than titanium is lighter than steel. Comparing the weight of a bike based on just materials is a lot different than comparing them on strength.

He does have a valid point about durability, however. Mountain bikes are extremely durable. You don't see a lot of steel mountain bikes and you see absolutely zero steel dual suspension ones. Even if you used the thinnest steel tubing available, a steel dually would be much heavier than an aluminum bike of equivalent strength.

As for straight tube touring bikes, I'd put my aluminum Cannondale up against any steel bike in terms of strength. I'd put it up against any production bike in terms of weight. I'd almost put it up against any custom bike in both those areas of comparison.

a lightweight frame and wheels for touring?

that's a heck of a good price

20 minutes to set up both front and rear, not like a lifetime. They work great and only cost about $35 for the pair. One does not have to go with these, it's an option that is available.

Run Scott Pedersen SE cantilevers , and Modolo brake levers on my bike for Irish Tour, 10 years back.

Now I got a bike with Magura Hydrostop rim brakes , HS33, no doubt the best rim brake ,
to fit on V brake bosses, as long as you live with the limitation
that there is no road bar brake lever produced anymore.
'8' Trekking bars are an Ideal match.

I don't get it you don't want to have to work on your bike on a bike tour?

just want to own one..

From the reviews that I've read they require ultrastraight wheels and they have to be set very close to the rims just like normal v-brakes would with cantilever levers. Most reviews say that they went to travel agents eventually to solve these issues. It's not the set up...cantilevers require about the same amount of time...that's the problem but maintaining them that makes them futzy.

Two big mistakes in analysis here. First, you're assuming that an "equivalent" frame is somehow using the same amount of material irrespective of what materials are used, which is how you're getting those weight numbers. That completely ignores the benefits of higher strength to weight ratio materials. Second, you're mistakenly comparing the Ti frame to an aluminum one; the Fargo comes in steel and Titanium, not aluminum.

That's one of the worst defenses I've ever seen, and then you try to justify it by pretending that it's my fault. The only one comparing cheese to chalk is your absurd attempt to pretend that an equitable comparison between frames somehow involves the same amount of material used. Just laughable.

Over 2000 miles and have not touched them. I guess if you are using some questionable rims you would have problems.

this is going off the rails folks keep it calm it's just a thread on can we improve on the touring bike thats all .
okay lets build a bike ,
frame my choice . either reynolds 853 or 725 oversized tubes tighter angles but no toe overlap issue simples.
wheels 36 hole /light strong rims/conti city contacts tires.sapin spokes.hubs i dont know whats light and best.
sti shifters.okay enough from me anyone want to continue without killing one another.
dont know how to add smiles.