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-   -   Just ordered my Windsor Tourist....... (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/709580-just-ordered-my-windsor-tourist.html)

texas2wheel 02-16-11 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by NoGaBiker (Post 12234637)
I hear ya. If I had my druthers, BD would spec the WT $200 better and sell it for $800, with upgraded crank/BB, wheels, and a threadless headset. Say they kept $50 more in profit and applied the extra $150 to the bike. At the wholesale cost level you could upgrade the wheels and crank and fork/stem/HS quite a bit for the extra $150. I already like the frame, derailleurs and brifters on the bike, and the brakes seem to be adequate.

It was gutsy of them to spec Tiagra 9 brifters, at a significant cost increase over Barcons. I bet they could have sold the bike for just under 500 if they had but Barcons on it. But I prefer brifters and won't use barends.

I like bar end shifters, and was a little concerned about the brifters. Since I've had a chance to use them, I love them and don't think I'll change them. The treaded stem doesnt bother me, I just switched to a VO threaded stem adaptor, and run with my preference of stems.

staehpj1 02-16-11 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by texas2wheel (Post 12234874)
I like bar end shifters, and was a little concerned about the brifters. Since I've had a chance to use them, I love them and don't think I'll change them. The treaded stem doesnt bother me, I just switched to a VO threaded stem adaptor, and run with my preference of stems.

I love my WT, but if you had a preference for bar end shifters it would seem like the Motobecane Gran Turismo would have been the obvious choice over the Windsor Touring. Better wheels, better gearing, and your preferred choice of shifting mechanism for an extra $100 sounds like a bargain to me.

I personally hate bar end shifters, but other than that think the Motobecane Gran Turismo is a better deal. For me the bar ends would be a deal breaker though.

BTW, the VO threaded stem adaptor looks like the worst of both worlds to me. I really don't see a plus to it. I like threadless mostly for it's ease of headset adjustment without the need for anything but an allen wrench.

That said the quill is fine and does allow more easy raising and lowering of the bars, which is great for those who are still figuring out what works for them. That was great for my companions on the TA who were at the time still sorting out their position on the bike.

texas2wheel 02-16-11 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by staehpj1 (Post 12235051)
I love my WT, but if you had a preference for bar end shifters it would seem like the Motobecane Gran Turismo would have been the obvious choice over the Windsor Touring. Better wheels, better gearing, and your preferred choice of shifting mechanism for an extra $100 sounds like a bargain to me.

I personally hate bar end shifters, but other than that think the Motobecane Gran Turismo is a better deal. For me the bar ends would be a deal breaker though.

BTW, the VO threaded stem adaptor looks like the worst of both worlds to me. I really don't see a plus to it. I like threadless mostly for it's ease of headset adjustment without the need for anything but an allen wrench.

That said the quill is fine and does allow more easy raising and lowering of the bars, which is great for those who are still figuring out what works for them. That was great for my companions on the TA who were at the time still sorting out their position on the bike.

The adapter gives me more height and more options of length and angle of stems than the available quill stem options out there. As far as adjustment goes, it’s a simple 2 hex head bolt removal of the stem and 1 hex head bolt to remove the quill/threadless adaptor, or 1 hex head bolt removal to remove it as an assembly, or adjust height (not any harder than a standard quill set-up). Once you have the threadless stem tightened on the adaptor then it’s just as simple as a standard quill stem, except I can get the rise and length I want for half the cost, if at all. Is it heavier.......yes, but on a bike that weighs as much as it does, then what is an extra few ounces? As for the brifters and the Motobecane……….I wasn’t opposed to brifters, just hadn’t really ever used them before, and there was not a lot of positive stuff about the motobecane (not a lot of bad either) just didn’t like the whole fork question/issue. And after reading your bog (which spoke fairly highly of the Windsor), I was sold.

staehpj1 02-16-11 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by texas2wheel (Post 12235227)
As far as adjustment goes, it's a simple 2 hex head bolt removal of the stem and 1 hex head bolt to remove the quill/threadless adaptor, or 1 hex head bolt removal to remove it as an assembly, or adjust height (not any harder than a standard quill set-up).

My comments about tools for adjustment were referring to adjusting the headset. That takes two big (32mm) heavy wrenches with a threaded headset. The good news is that I have never needed to adjust the headset while on tour.

BTW, I didn't mean to knock the Windsor at all. It is just that the Gran Turismo already has the gearing change that is needed for hilly or mountain touring and better wheels for about what it would cost to just fix the gearing. For someone who likes bar end shifters it is a better deal. That said I bet you will love the brifters.

LeeG 02-16-11 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by texas2wheel (Post 12234874)
I like bar end shifters, and was a little concerned about the brifters. Since I've had a chance to use them, I love them and don't think I'll change them. The treaded stem doesnt bother me, I just switched to a VO threaded stem adaptor, and run with my preference of stems.

that worked great for me when I raised the bars on my old custom touring bike. I tried the Nitto tall stem and it was noooodly compared to the adapter and regular clamp stems. you got a very nice bike. Same with bar-ends. they work fine. At one time criterium racers were using them instead of down tube shifters.

DW99 02-16-11 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by ZCow (Post 12234126)
I guess you're right. Problem I have is with the staff, but I guess that could be avoided entirely.

I am not certain about which frame size to get. I am 5'7" and am leaning towards the 49cm, but I'm unsure. Anyone 5'6"-5'8" and could chime in?

I am not quite 5'8" and the 49cm Fuji Touring fits me very well. For me, the standover height is perfect and don't feel cramp or stretch out when riding. These are not the only considerations for fit, but in the ball park, I guess.

Nice looking bike, texas2wheel.

texas2wheel 02-16-11 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by staehpj1 (Post 12236396)
My comments about tools for adjustment were referring to adjusting the headset. That takes two big (32mm) heavy wrenches with a threaded headset. The good news is that I have never needed to adjust the headset while on tour.

BTW, I didn't mean to knock the Windsor at all. It is just that the Gran Turismo already has the gearing change that is needed for hilly or mountain touring and better wheels for about what it would cost to just fix the gearing. For someone who likes bar end shifters it is a better deal. That said I bet you will love the brifters.

I don't do much touring outside the Texas area, if at all so the gearing on the Windsor was more than appropriate for my area. I did look real hard at the motobecane though.

cyclist2000 02-16-11 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan (Post 12139357)
I keep looking at that bike and wondering if I should have purchased that instead of beginning my nashbar frame build.

Have fun!

If it were me, the frame build would be great. I think the building up the bike is most of the fun. It may cost more than the BD bike but you get to choose all the equipment, and when assembling you get an intimate knowledge of the bike, this will really help when you need to do a repair on the road.

fietsbob 02-16-11 10:49 PM

Field strip it and put it back together .
so you know how to do the work under enemy fire..

I mean .. if it needs work in the middle of nowhere, You are the mechanic.. :P

I got a 2nd hand expensive bike all the bolts were installed dry,
so I took them all out and cured that with a dab of grease on each.

Expert assembly .. Hah ! :rolleyes:

Bike Hermit 02-17-11 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by m_yates (Post 12229633)
I love my Tourist. I did break one spoke on my original wheels, but replaced it myself with the spare on the frame and had no further problems. Last year, I bought new wheels for it, but the original wheels just got overhauled and will be used on a friends bike that I am building up.

I'd suggest at some point swapping the brakes for Tektro CR720 instead of Tektro Oryx. The CR720 isn't much more expensive, but they work much better in my opinion.

My Tourist has also been my hobby. Just about everything has been swapped on it, but I wouldn't change it now for any other bike. It is a 2008 model and I have lost track on miles on it (several thousand):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...100824_009.jpg

I've now got wheels with Velocity Dyad rims and Shimano Tiagra hubs. I also lowered the gearing with a Sugino XD600 crank, put a better rack (Tubus), replaced the bottom bracket after it broke (Shimano UN54), put a B17 saddle on it, replaced the headset with a NOS Shimano 105, replaced the handlbars with Nitto Noodle, stem with Nitto Technomic, brake levers with NOS Shimano 105, Dura Ace bar end shifters, NOS Shimano 105 front derailleur, and Shimano XT rear derailleur.

I hate to sit down and calculate how much money I have tied up in it, but I love it just as it is now!

Good looking bike! I would agree with changing out the bottom bracket and brake calipers. The Shimano UN54 comes on the stock LHT too. The plastic non drive side cup sometimes breaks with the first installation. The Tektro Oryx brakes come on the LHT too. Not much stopping power IMHO.

boogman 02-28-12 10:13 PM

what is the difference between a quill riser vs stem adapter? I feel a bit stretched out in my 54cm tourist. I want to shorten the stem a bit but don't see many good options for a new quill stem.. looking to attached a thread less stem to the bike. What should I use ? quill riser or stem adapter? Thanks

bud16415 02-29-12 06:45 AM

Not sure about the best riser or switching to a thread less stem. I have seen the posts that convert to thread less but don’t see the advantage if you have the quill setup for adjustment. Here is what I switched to as a method of figuring out what reach and height I needed and I liked it enough I never replaced it with a fixed stem. I actually like being able to tweak the position on the road if I so desire.

http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg


boogman 02-29-12 08:34 PM

Hmm I'm concerned about robustness of the stem. I'm thinking an adjustable stem would be less solid than a one piece. Is my concern warranted? Or the difference not significant for the stem/handle bar region? The tourist comes with 25.4mm handle bar right?

bud16415 03-01-12 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by boogman (Post 13916240)
Hmm I'm concerned about robustness of the stem. I'm thinking an adjustable stem would be less solid than a one piece. Is my concern warranted? Or the difference not significant for the stem/handle bar region? The tourist comes with 25.4mm handle bar right?

I was quite surprised that stem was and is rock solid at the adjustment point. It locks in two directions. The strength is in the size of the post and adding a riser post won’t change the bore of the stem. Yes it’s a 1 inch stem 25.4. My thought was to put the adjuster on and figure out what worked best and then find some stem that worked. It might be a little bit heavier than a fixed stem but I don’t feel less solid.

SFGary 03-01-12 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by ZCow (Post 12234126)
I guess you're right. Problem I have is with the staff, but I guess that could be avoided entirely.

I am not certain about which frame size to get. I am 5'7" and am leaning towards the 49cm, but I'm unsure. Anyone 5'6"-5'8" and could chime in?

Hi ZCow, I was told to get a fitting, which I did a few days ago and the news was not good because of my Clyde-ish weight class, being 5'8" plus not being flexible enough for the regular drop bars ( too much weight on my hands). I had not ridden in several years and recently got back on a bike. So after I rejected a custom bike (Can't afford it) I was recommended I start with an LHT 54cm frameset. I am not buying the standard LHT because I want, based on all the reading here and a few CGOAB journals, a bombproof set of wheels and the low gearing, trekking style (don't know which yet) handlebars, risers etc. I don't know if this size is going to work based on this fitting but I am not paying more to find out, I'll go broke before I start my trip...

bud16415 03-02-12 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by SFGary (Post 13920717)
Hi ZCow, I was told to get a fitting, which I did a few days ago and the news was not good because of my Clyde-ish weight class, being 5'8" plus not being flexible enough for the regular drop bars ( too much weight on my hands). I had not ridden in several years and recently got back on a bike. So after I rejected a custom bike (Can't afford it) I was recommended I start with an LHT 54cm frameset. I am not buying the standard LHT because I want, based on all the reading here and a few CGOAB journals, a bombproof set of wheels and the low gearing, trekking style (don't know which yet) handlebars, risers etc. I don't know if this size is going to work based on this fitting but I am not paying more to find out, I'll go broke before I start my trip...

SFGary

Not sure who’s still reading this thread from the past posters but I know what you are feeling in terms of trying to get a fit for a tour bike. If you take a look at some of the photos posted of the Windsor You will see some of us have played around with the stem and boogman brought the thread back asking a similar question. I found I was able to get quite comfortable on drop bars by doing my own fitting and thinking outside the box a little. There is nothing written in stone that drop bars have to be super low. I will attach a side view of mine showing the more “French fit” setup I used to get things right for me. To have a more upright position on the hoods starting with a slightly larger frame than you think and then lowering the saddle to get your feet right in relation to the crank will bring bars up a bit to start. The down side is the top tube will be higher and stand over might be snug. That to me doesn’t mean much I have the bike to ride not stand over and when I do have to stop I can lean the bike a little or shift and stand on one foot. The other drawback is the top tube length is a little longer but that can be easily compensated for with a shorter and angled stem. The plus side if you can get the bars up where you need them now as you improve you will start dropping them a little at a time. The one mistake not to make though would be don’t move the saddle forward to compensate for a longer top tube. That will get you falling forward and putting too much weight on your hands even when you are upright. Also resist the urge to get to upright you want to remain as aero as you can on the hoods and still be able to ride in the drops comfortably when in the wind. It worked for me is all I can say YMMV. Just something to think about or test ride if you can find a bike to experiment with.

http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/49...600x600Q85.jpg


SFGary 03-02-12 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 13921693)
SFGary

Not sure who’s still reading this thread from the past posters but I know what you are feeling in terms of trying to get a fit for a tour bike. If you take a look at some of the photos posted of the Windsor You will see some of us have played around with the stem and boogman brought the thread back asking a similar question. I found I was able to get quite comfortable on drop bars by doing my own fitting and thinking outside the box a little. There is nothing written in stone that drop bars have to be super low. I will attach a side view of mine showing the more “French fit” setup I used to get things right for me. To have a more upright position on the hoods starting with a slightly larger frame than you think and then lowering the saddle to get your feet right in relation to the crank will bring bars up a bit to start. The down side is the top tube will be higher and stand over might be snug. That to me doesn’t mean much I have the bike to ride not stand over and when I do have to stop I can lean the bike a little or shift and stand on one foot. The other drawback is the top tube length is a little longer but that can be easily compensated for with a shorter and angled stem. The plus side if you can get the bars up where you need them now as you improve you will start dropping them a little at a time. The one mistake not to make though would be don’t move the saddle forward to compensate for a longer top tube. That will get you falling forward and putting too much weight on your hands even when you are upright. Also resist the urge to get to upright you want to remain as aero as you can on the hoods and still be able to ride in the drops comfortably when in the wind. It worked for me is all I can say YMMV. Just something to think about or test ride if you can find a bike to experiment with.

http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/49...600x600Q85.jpg

Hi bud16415

Thanks for the tip and it really makes common sense. I did not want to hijack the OP's thread but I was going to send you a private message to get some tips. Sort of embarrassed to ask what quills, stem adapters and other related terminology meant:o but I did get the drift. This is why common sense over rules traditional way of doing things. Both the fitter and the LBS guys insist that I will "get used to it" as soon as my core builds up and I lose weight etc. But they forget who's suffering while that happens. My palms and fingers go numb every mile and a half on my hybrid even though we used a riser and added bar-ends and I have to keep flexing them to get relief. Its improving from the time I started but I know its going to take a while.

I am willing to pay extra for comforts till such time I feel the need for going back to "normal" way of riding road or tour bikes. Your bike setup looks comfortable and I am sending your post and the pix to my LBS to emulate...thanks. I might even give up on the idea of using the Jeff Jones Loop H Bar that this Marine who I ran into at REI highly recommended http://www.opawakening.com/Pages/DasWarthog.aspx:D

bud16415 03-02-12 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by SFGary (Post 13923050)
Hi bud16415

Thanks for the tip and it really makes common sense. I did not want to hijack the OP's thread but I was going to send you a private message to get some tips. Sort of embarrassed to ask what quills, stem adapters and other related terminology meant:o but I did get the drift. This is why common sense over rules traditional way of doing things. Both the fitter and the LBS guys insist that I will "get used to it" as soon as my core builds up and I lose weight etc. But they forget who's suffering while that happens. My palms and fingers go numb every mile and a half on my hybrid even though we used a riser and added bar-ends and I have to keep flexing them to get relief. Its improving from the time I started but I know its going to take a while.

I am willing to pay extra for comforts till such time I feel the need for going back to "normal" way of riding road or tour bikes. Your bike setup looks comfortable and I am sending your post and the pix to my LBS to emulate...thanks. I might even give up on the idea of using the Jeff Jones Loop H Bar that this Marine who I ran into at REI highly recommended http://www.opawakening.com/Pages/DasWarthog.aspx:D

Here is what Sheldon Brown had to say on some of this and also explaining a lot of the terms you hear people throwing around on here.

Good luck on the fit and I can’t stress enough how keeping your saddle back takes weight off your hands. Just opposite of what you think. A powerful rider can be leaning forward and not putting a lot of weight on the hands because he’s pushing back into the bike with his legs. Just like a sprinter coming out of the blocks in a running race. If you look at a picture the sprinter looks like he should fall over. Most of us don’t have that kind of strength and need to stay balanced over the legs and the core does that but also moving some weight back counterbalances the weight forward. Stand with your heels to a wall and try and bend over and put your hands on a chair for support. Now move out from the wall and when you bend your butt goes back and knees can bend. You don’t even need the chair for support. That’s the feeling I like to have on the bike. When you are balanced you will be surprised how much your reach will improve and not having your arms straight in line with the fork all that road shock won’t be running up thru your hands and arms.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_dr-z.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html



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