Disc vs V brakes
02-01-12, 10:58 AM
#101
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Can't agree more; I'm in the same boat. If you have decent components well setup, all of these brakes are pretty good. I even have some old centre pull brakes on a Raleigh that are decent too (mind you, it took Koolstop pads, new cables and brake levers with a slightly different cable pull to make them that way though!).
IMHO, there just isn't that much of a difference between good quality examples of the common brake types of canti, v or discs to warrant such animosity and strong feelings in this thread!
IMHO, there just isn't that much of a difference between good quality examples of the common brake types of canti, v or discs to warrant such animosity and strong feelings in this thread!
(well at least that's what I say to my son who hates the stuff too! My other kids love it though!)
02-01-12, 01:31 PM
#103
Senior Member
Gosh, I guess I missed out on this (contentious) thread.
I have BB7 road disc brakes on my tourer; and I love them. However, I've also used cantis and v-brakes too, and to be honest, I do judge the BB7s to have marginally better performance in terms of stopping and modulation (especially in the wet). But... if I was going to build a tourer, I'm far from convinced I'd include disc brakes -probably only if money were no object. In terms of value, I do think discs are a poor value proposition. It's great for me (in my opinion) to have discs, and I'll be keeping them thank you very much. However, it's also interesting to note that people have toured many times quite happily on non-disc brakes with perfectly adequate performance too. For the major brake designs, I think the quality and setup of the brake and levers is far more important than its actual brake design.
Based on my own experience with brakes, I'm not sure some of what I consider to be salient points are well high lighted in this thread; I do think some people seem to be exaggerating stuff to make a point (on both sides for and against disc brakes), but hey, this is the internet. Both discs and non-disc brakes can be excellent (but again, only if quality and appropriate components are used with good setup!).
My take to someone who is interested in discs but hasn't tried them: if you have the money, try them. If you are tight with money, stick with whatever 'traditional" design you have, and/or upgrade to the good quality pads (e.g. Koolstop), use new cables and housing, the right levers, and make sure your brakes are setup appropriately!
I have BB7 road disc brakes on my tourer; and I love them. However, I've also used cantis and v-brakes too, and to be honest, I do judge the BB7s to have marginally better performance in terms of stopping and modulation (especially in the wet). But... if I was going to build a tourer, I'm far from convinced I'd include disc brakes -probably only if money were no object. In terms of value, I do think discs are a poor value proposition. It's great for me (in my opinion) to have discs, and I'll be keeping them thank you very much. However, it's also interesting to note that people have toured many times quite happily on non-disc brakes with perfectly adequate performance too. For the major brake designs, I think the quality and setup of the brake and levers is far more important than its actual brake design.
Based on my own experience with brakes, I'm not sure some of what I consider to be salient points are well high lighted in this thread; I do think some people seem to be exaggerating stuff to make a point (on both sides for and against disc brakes), but hey, this is the internet. Both discs and non-disc brakes can be excellent (but again, only if quality and appropriate components are used with good setup!).
My take to someone who is interested in discs but hasn't tried them: if you have the money, try them. If you are tight with money, stick with whatever 'traditional" design you have, and/or upgrade to the good quality pads (e.g. Koolstop), use new cables and housing, the right levers, and make sure your brakes are setup appropriately!
Since I'll be using the bike mainly for touring, I'm not sure discs would be worth the additional expense and complexity (albeit minor). Since I won't be doing that much stop-and-go peddling, I don't know if I can justify the overall cost. That being said, if disc brakes will significantly extend rim life, it might be worth it in the long run.
02-01-12, 02:28 PM
#104
Senior Member
I realize not everyone likes doing this, but it really helps with braking power and rim life.
02-01-12, 02:31 PM
#105
Senior Member
I tried it first in the 70s visiting relatives over in Blighty, and was quite appalled with it. Tried it again about 25 years later thinking perhaps age would change my taste buds, but alas...was still appalled.
I actually think Marmite was behind the expression "close your eyes and think of England"... ;-)
cheers
02-01-12, 04:55 PM
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Sorry, I did miss that reference to F1.... I did have a passing interest in it back in the 80's, that was all.
Mmmm Marmite, love it or hate it! Even as a Marmite lover, I freely acknowledge that it's an...unusual taste..... and you may have to "acquire" a taste for it.
Mmmm Marmite, love it or hate it! Even as a Marmite lover, I freely acknowledge that it's an...unusual taste..... and you may have to "acquire" a taste for it.
Dear Our Nige (are you old enough to know that reference, and/or follow F1?)
I tried it first in the 70s visiting relatives over in Blighty, and was quite appalled with it. Tried it again about 25 years later thinking perhaps age would change my taste buds, but alas...was still appalled.
I actually think Marmite was behind the expression "close your eyes and think of England"... ;-)
cheers
I tried it first in the 70s visiting relatives over in Blighty, and was quite appalled with it. Tried it again about 25 years later thinking perhaps age would change my taste buds, but alas...was still appalled.
I actually think Marmite was behind the expression "close your eyes and think of England"... ;-)
cheers
02-01-12, 08:25 PM
#108
Senior Member
from someone who considers himself to be an average cyclist (ride maybe 2-3000km per year tops) I really dont think this is an issue. Yes, as I mentioned before, I wipe the gritty gunk off my rims when I get in from being in the rain and clean my pads once in a while too, so this helps a bunch and takes only a minute or two when everything is wet (if you let it all dry, its harder to clean)
I realize not everyone likes doing this, but it really helps with braking power and rim life.
I realize not everyone likes doing this, but it really helps with braking power and rim life.
That said, I've had the same front rime for 6 years, and even though it's close to needing a rebuild, it's lasted a really long time. I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt every 1-2 years: Since most of the weight is on the rear wheel, I'm not sure how far disc brakes can really go in extending rim life.
02-02-12, 08:41 AM
#109
Senior Member
alan, regarding most of the weight on the rear, and "rebuilding" your rear wheel every 1-2 years--it would appear that the issue isn't brake wear, but rather spoke issues (spoke count vs your weight) --or at least that is how I am understanding your comment (what do you mean exactly by a rebuild?)
If you are wearing out a rear rim every 1-2 years from brake pad wear, well I dont really understand how. The majority of braking should be on the front, so I guess you are predominantly a rear brake user, but even without getting into brake bias front/back, I really dont see how you are needing the wheel to be "rebuilt" every few years unless its that bad of a wheel and/or you are a hefty fellow.
If you are wearing out a rear rim every 1-2 years from brake pad wear, well I dont really understand how. The majority of braking should be on the front, so I guess you are predominantly a rear brake user, but even without getting into brake bias front/back, I really dont see how you are needing the wheel to be "rebuilt" every few years unless its that bad of a wheel and/or you are a hefty fellow.
02-02-12, 08:56 AM
#110
Senior Member
alan, regarding most of the weight on the rear, and "rebuilding" your rear wheel every 1-2 years--it would appear that the issue isn't brake wear, but rather spoke issues (spoke count vs your weight) --or at least that is how I am understanding your comment (what do you mean exactly by a rebuild?)
If you are wearing out a rear rim every 1-2 years from brake pad wear, well I dont really understand how. The majority of braking should be on the front, so I guess you are predominantly a rear brake user, but even without getting into brake bias front/back, I really dont see how you are needing the wheel to be "rebuilt" every few years unless its that bad of a wheel and/or you are a hefty fellow.
If you are wearing out a rear rim every 1-2 years from brake pad wear, well I dont really understand how. The majority of braking should be on the front, so I guess you are predominantly a rear brake user, but even without getting into brake bias front/back, I really dont see how you are needing the wheel to be "rebuilt" every few years unless its that bad of a wheel and/or you are a hefty fellow.
Alan, when you say "I had to have the rear wheel rebuilt every 1-2 years" do you mean because the rims are worn out? If so how do you determine they are worn out? How many miles do you ride in that period?
02-02-12, 10:00 AM
#111
Senior Member
alan, regarding most of the weight on the rear, and "rebuilding" your rear wheel every 1-2 years--it would appear that the issue isn't brake wear, but rather spoke issues (spoke count vs your weight) --or at least that is how I am understanding your comment (what do you mean exactly by a rebuild?)
If he's actually grinding through a rim every two years, it seems like disc brakes would definitely help, but that doesn't sound like it's the case. But it does seem that you would really have to abuse your wheels, or be riding on the wrong wheels for a given activity, to have that kind of replace rate.
02-02-12, 11:06 AM
#112
Senior Member
That's the issue I'm 'wrestling' with. I'll be building around a Surly Troll frame, which, like most Surly frames, is designed to be ultra-versatile and practical (isn't that why we love them). I'm not opposed to new technologies as long as the practical advantages aren't outweighed by the practical disadvantages.
Since I'll be using the bike mainly for touring, I'm not sure discs would be worth the additional expense and complexity (albeit minor). Since I won't be doing that much stop-and-go peddling, I don't know if I can justify the overall cost. That being said, if disc brakes will significantly extend rim life, it might be worth it in the long run.
Since I'll be using the bike mainly for touring, I'm not sure discs would be worth the additional expense and complexity (albeit minor). Since I won't be doing that much stop-and-go peddling, I don't know if I can justify the overall cost. That being said, if disc brakes will significantly extend rim life, it might be worth it in the long run.
install and setup was fairly easy, in fact i think it might even be easier to adjust a disc - assuming the rotor is straight. it's mechanical, so using the same cable/housing (jagwire) and levers (tektro) as with v-brakes. no worries about leaking hoses or bleeding fluid. i carry the small torx wrench, no bigger than a hex key, on tour. (although should be able to adjust the large dial by hand if needed)
braking feels essentially the same in most conditions. a little better in wet. i can't say whether there would be more of a difference if the disc were on the front.
one advantage is in sticky mud that clings to the tires....it won't gum up as with v-brakes.
02-02-12, 02:37 PM
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Been following this thread with interest so thought I might as well throw my .02 cents in. Toured for several years on a Jamis Nova with Avid canti's. Got the job done, but noisy and really not that stellar performance, although more than capable of locking up the wheels. Now have a disc equiped Marinoni Turismo. The major differences that I have noticed is far superior modulation with discs along with consistant performance regardless of weather conditions. The Marinoni actually feels like it brakes and stops better than my Specialized Tarmac.However, this is is a subjective feeling and I have no empericaldata to back up this feeling. As I have never had mechanical problems with either system I can't comment on the ease of repairs or parts availability.
To put everything into perspective, I live in a fairly mountainous region where descents of 10 to 20 Kms (6 to 12 miles ) with grades from 6 to 10 percent are quite common.. My feelings are discs are the wave of the future and I'm currently looking for a disc equiped road bike.
Cheers
To put everything into perspective, I live in a fairly mountainous region where descents of 10 to 20 Kms (6 to 12 miles ) with grades from 6 to 10 percent are quite common.. My feelings are discs are the wave of the future and I'm currently looking for a disc equiped road bike.
Cheers
02-03-12, 10:24 AM
#114
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This... Living in the rainy UK and taking in some trails and muddy back roads during our riding/touring, I've lost count of the number of times I had to readjust the v-brakes on my wife's bike. Usually in a downpour. On a steep slope. I never had any problems with my discs. Perhaps we would have fared better with better quality v-breaks, but we ended up buying her a bike with discs brakes. She loves them as much as I do. I don't see myself ever going back to v-brakes.
02-03-12, 11:43 AM
#115
Banned
Magura HS33 never seems to need re adjustment.. they fit on V brake bosses, but,
they don't pivot around it.. pad motion is horizontal,
so it does not meet the rim progressively lower as the pad wears..
they don't pivot around it.. pad motion is horizontal,
so it does not meet the rim progressively lower as the pad wears..
02-03-12, 02:50 PM
#116
Senior Member
I was commuting 5 days/week year-around, in all kinds of weather (in rains about 8 mos/year), about 10-15 miles/day. With all the wet weather, lost of dirt/debris diritied the pad. On top of that I was running high pressure 700x38 tires, which also puts lots of strain on the rim. Even though I made a conscious effort to use mainly my front brake, there was still significant wear on my rear rim - the front one was only getting close to needing a rebuild after about 6 years.
02-04-12, 12:08 AM
#117
Senior Member
Alan, in that case it does sound like you would be a good candidate for discs, just because of all the constant grit. As others said, if the idea appeals, then you have to start to look at all the various angles of if your frame can take them, new hubs etc etc, but perhaps a diff bike with discs would be a good idea for you in the future at some point. I could seriously see the appeal if you are doing that much rain riding.
02-04-12, 01:40 AM
#118
Senior Member
Even so, most trials bikes are moving away from any kind of rim brakes to disc brakes. Trials riders are generally not concerned about rim wear, but rather the ability to instantly stop and hold the wheel. If you're not familiar with bicycle trials, search Youtube for Ryan Leach or Danny Macaskill.
02-04-12, 01:56 PM
#119
Senior Member
Alan, in that case it does sound like you would be a good candidate for discs, just because of all the constant grit. As others said, if the idea appeals, then you have to start to look at all the various angles of if your frame can take them, new hubs etc etc, but perhaps a diff bike with discs would be a good idea for you in the future at some point. I could seriously see the appeal if you are doing that much rain riding.
The bike -still only conceptual at this point- I'll be building will be mainly for touring. I don't plan to ride much in inclement weather; hopefully, I'll be able to avoid it in most cases with good planning.
So I'm mainly concerned with functionality, durability, and repairability. As I said, the reason I'm hesitant to go with disc brakes is because of my perception (perhaps prejudiced) that they're more complicated than rim brakes. I'm basically weighing the benefits of discs in terms of less rim wear vs the simplicity and repairability of V-brakes: The purported slight performance advantage of discs is completely irrelevant to me.
Right now I think I'm still inclined to go with V-brakes. Since I'll probably be doing mostly consistent riding, with minimal stop-go situations, I probably won't be using the brakes all that much anyway.
02-04-12, 06:19 PM
#120
-
02-04-12, 08:35 PM
#121
Senior Member
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rydabent
Bicycle Mechanics
187
11-01-12 02:10 PM
