suncake

Long story short--I've made a huge mistake [/Gob], and I'm trying to make the best of it.

I thought I lucked out when I saw a $100 Cannondale touring frame on CL-Seattle in my size. I've been scavenging for touring parts the last few weeks, and the frame is the final missing link (sooo backwards, I know ). It all goes down hill from here.

The previous owner powdercoated it black before the seller bought it. Naturally, red flags went up, but I actually didn't mind the lack of c-dale decaling--sort of a theft proof feature. Of course, identifying the frame was the next priority. Skipping ahead past a few hours of shoddy research, I ended up buying a 22" 1994-96 H*00 frame, thinking it was a T*00 touring frame.

Huge mistake. So now I'm stuck with a near-valueless, powdercoated, hybrid frame I can't quite identify (narrowed it down to 4), wondering whether it might function as a tourer anyway. VintageCannondale.com indicates it was mf'd July '96, and the mysterious "frame code" reads 2H5N22. Maybe. Perhaps 2H (7H?) = H700, 5N = 135mm hub spacing, 22 = nominal size. Just a guess.

Anyway, here's my question: Is this frame worth building up as a tourer, or is it best to accept the $100 loss and not dig a deeper hole?

Things to factor in:
- Chain stay length is ~17.0" (43.2cm). Too short?
- The 3 rear brake "feedthroughs" (proper term?) are missing, with 3 pairs of holes left behind. Is there an epoxy-less solution to this?
- Not sure how the derailer housing is routed--there's no guide under the BB.
- Only one pair of eyelets in the front & one in the back
- Looks like it's canti's only in the rear??
- Everything I know about bikes covers pre-1986 steel road bikes. Therefore I can't distinguish between missing features vs. newer designs (see 4 previous bullets)
- I don't mind that it's fugly. All aluminum bikes are ugly to me.
- I'm 5'11" & 140 lbs
- This is supposed to be a super-cheap tourer. While I'd prefer a Saga/LHT/Miyata610-1000LT/520, that's out of my price range in Seattle.
- I'm anxious to tour this summer before it slips away, however, I'm not too keen on wasting $50 on cables, housing, tape, twine/shellac, bearings, 31.8mm FD, only to use it for one summer. Those things add up.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

bradtx

suncake, The TT cable guides are P/N A113, becoming hard to find so keep trying different Cannondale dealers. The FD/RD cable guide is a generic plastic piece that should be easy enough to source. My '95 T bike has a chainstay length of ~43 cm. It looks like you'll also need a front brake cable hanger and a seat tube pinch bolt mounted rear brake housing hanger, or use linear pull brakes. The uni crown seat stay and lack of DT bosses are different from my T frame.

Brad

suncake

Thanks, Brad. I'll have to call around Seattle to see if any of the LBS's carry extra A113's. Worst case, I could get clamp guides doubling as chrome accents.

Good to hear you've had luck with 43cm chainstays. One thing to note--my current crankarm is 175mm, but I'm not opposed to 170mm.

Concerning the rear brake housing hanger: there's a seat tube hanger, but it's wayyy closer to the seat tube than I'm accustomed to. I already have aero brake levers, so I'm leaning towards cantilevers. I have an extra pair of 105 calipers I was planning on using, but I don't see anywhere to mount them in the rear, not to mention the inevitable fender clearance issues.

While a little OT, I've noticed that geometry-wise the '95 CAAD3.8 ~ '96 CAAD1 ~ '97 CAAD1 ~ '97 CAAD2 hardtail hybrid framesets. Go figure.

bradtx

suncake, The A113 is a kit w/three guides, you'll only need one kit. I don't think your present crankset will present an issue, not positive as I have 170 mm crankarms. I used the canti bosses to mount my rear Santana spec OMM carrier. For the front brake cable housing holder I used a Tektro unit. I'm not too happy with tight bends in my brake cables. Pictures if you'd like.

Cannondale was more evolutionary than revolutionary, even when they started using CAD equipment.

Brad

Bacciagalupe

FWIW, the Surly Cross Check frameset is around $400 new and fully capable of touring, and a Soma Saga is $450.

Considering the problems you're having finding a used touring frame in your size, and that you already got burned once on used, I'd say that you should just bite the bullet and buy a CC or SS frame.

Iowegian

The only real show-stopper I see is the cable guides (A113 kit). You could always make something work but it could be a kludge if you can't find the real parts. The rest of the stuff looks easily doable, especially since there must be plenty of bike co-ops in your area where you can find cheap canti brakes, etc.

Or you could build it up, sell it to re-coup most of your $ and buy something like this:

https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/2469661104.html

suncake

Thanks for the input. It sure would make life easier, but I'd really like to keep the frameset around $100, which means used (sans Nashbar)...not to mention I'd have to tack on the loss from selling this frame (~$50). $400 (or $300 for Pake C'mute) certainly isn't unreasonable, here's my thoughts for used.
- Price. $400 would put my total high enough I'd be bitter I didn't just buy a LHT/Randonee build (though the learning experience has been priceless)
- Bike theft/vandalism is a serious issue
- I like the idea of re-purposing a bike that isn't getting used

suncake

A Miyata 210 would fit the bill nicely. I would have to respace the stays to 135mm to accommodate my rear wheel and find long-reach brakes. Unfortunately, very few show up here--I've spotted only 2 on CL in the last 2 months. And they're usually ~$200-300. Hard to justify when I only want the frame. I'm sure I could get one <$100 given enough time, but summer is fading quickly.

My google skills are failing me--can someone describe the A113 cable guide kit? How do they attach to the holes--do they just snap in?
Edit: nevermind. Linky.

I can get some used canti's for $5-10 most likely.

Do you think the favorable ride characteristics of the T400-T2000 would translate to this frame? Thanks

clasher

Is the top tube some funny diameter they don't make clamp-on cable stops? They cost me 10$ each at the LBS, here's a similar one on amazon and they come in different sizes. I know they are bit ugly but they work and are easy to find. You could use them to run v-brakes but if you have cantis and regular levers there's no reason not to use them.

Unless you've got big feet I wouldn't worry about the chainstay length, there are racks that put the panniers farther back and some panniers don't get in the way. I have size 12 and I ride a specialized sirrus with panniers and it has shorter chainstays than this bike.

I think this bike would make a great touring bike... any LBS should have a bottom bracket cable guide that'll work and a decent shop should have a cable stop that'll work with cantis... search "rear cable hanger" on amazon for lots of examples if you're not sure what I mean.

upon editing: I think good tires be the biggest factor in ride comfort but that's just my personal experience as I ride steel and aluminum and notice little difference between them as they both have narrow, high pressure tires.

positron

run full housing, and ziptie it to the tube. duh.

it will last longer and stay cleaner.

suncake

Considering it's black, black housing + a black ziptie might not be so hideous actually. When I measured the TT diameter, I got 38.6mm, which doesn't appear to be very standard. Possibly I measured wrong since it was early in the morning.

I was originally going to get 700x28mm gatorskins, but I might go up to 32mm for this bike. The limiting factor is I don't want this to be a sluggish/unfun commuter.

bradtx

There are two pins for each guide, these are pushed downward which in turn each pin expands a sleeve, just don't push the pin all the way through. There doesn't seem to be enough difference between the hybrid frame and the touring frame to alter ride quality between the two (I haven't compared geometry.). The uni crown seat stays looks to be the major difference and may actually be a good thing.

Brad

suncake

Hmm...why would that be? I can't say I'm familiar with the pros/cons of a unicrown seat stay design.

I forgot to mention that there's a hole near the bottom of the rear monostay. I can't check at the moment, but it seemed a little high for a caliper mount point.

Two other questions:
-Fenders/Racks - Obviously, I'd have to double-up on the eyelets. Would I need a monostay rack adapter like this? Any suggestions for the front? Any fender difficulties you foresee?
-Indexing - This'll be my first non-friction bike. I was originally planning on using these DT barrel adjusters with my 8-speed barcons, but there's no DT braze-on. Will this just narrow my tension adjustment window to that of the RD (DeoreXT 8sp), or am I missing something big?

Again, thanks for everyone's feedback.

Bacciagalupe

At this point, you're better off with a new Nashbar touring frame for $100 than continuing to chase the used ones.

You already know you made a mistake, and you already realize you were driven to it by a dearth of available frames. I say it's time to cut your losses.





While this is a laudable goal, it doesn't seem feasible given both your time frame and what's available in your area.

Besides, the amount of metal and energy that goes into a single frame isn't going to destroy the planet, especially if you're conscientious in other respects, and get a good-quality frame that lasts 10, 15 or 20 years.

escii_35

Call Aaron's Bicycle Repair in West Seattle for the A113 kit. They still had a little box of them last year.

suncake

Awesome, thanks.

suncake

You make a good point. While the Nashbar certainly has a few features I'd appreciate (appropriate brazeons, cable guides, double eyelets, caliper mount, fender mount), is there something in particular that makes you think I'd be unhappy with this frame, assuming I'd switch to canti's on either bike? To me, those all fall under more of a nuisance/time drainer than a monetary setback or dead end. I really don't mind the perceived headache in getting the cannondale to work as long as it's very cheap and the end result is suitable to touring. However, I'm not sure if either are possible at the moment.

Concerning the U-Lock--yes, but there is something to be said for security through obscurity, though it addresses vandalism more than theft. Probably more to my point, while I'd love an Atlantis, I couldn't bare to see it get a single scratch, making it an unsuitable workhorse tourer for me. I'd feel the same way if I had a pristine 1000LT or Expedition. But that's my problem, not the bike's.

clasher

I run 9 speed bar-cons on a converted aluminum hybrid, and survived with the derailleur's barrel adjuster. If want to add more adjusters, they do make in-line ones but I've never used them and have since switched back to friction on my sirrus. I actually like it better, believe it or not, and I don't have to worry about fiddling with the indexing. My frame started out as a busted hybrid that was stripped of parts (and had a hole!) so I sympathise with the desire to save an old frame... I say go for it have fun, I learned a few tricks along the way as well.

I double-up the rack and fenders on the same eyelets, just get high-quality stainless bolts (greased, natch) and if you clearance allows, thread them in from the inside of the dropout and use a nyloc nut on the outside to keep everything in place and in the unlikely case a bolt shears it is an easy fix on the road.

I have an IGH commuter and I put 32mm tires on it and I really like the extra comfort and will likely make the switch to 32s on my sirrus when it's time, I don't find the 32 tires any slower but they certainly to add a bit of cushion to the ride.

bradtx

-The uni crown seat stay arrangement is supposedly stronger, I don't know that for sure.
-I don't know what that hole in the seatstay is for, my Trek mountain bike has one there also.
-That mount looks pretty handy, I attached mine to the cantilever studs (below).
-The fork looks much the same as my T700's, should be good for any available carrier system.
-The DT adjusters aren't necessary. They're nice if you want a minor adjustment while riding I suppose, but I never have.



Brad

suncake

Clasher - Luckily I'm only a wingnut quarter-turn away from friction shifting if things go sour. Good tip about the bolt orientation, I'll have to try that. I'm a fan of gumwalls, so I might go with 700x32 Pasela Tourguards.

Brad - Thanks for the info...I didn't know the canti studs were an option.

I just noticed an ebay listing for essentially what I'm aiming for. Which is very encouraging.



A very attractive build to my eyes. Attaching to the monostay (as shown) might interfere less with brake adjustment than the cantis--is one structurally preferable?

The only thing I can't resolve is how the fenders are going to mount. I'm used to 3 attachment points for the rear (eyelet, caliper mount bolt, rear triangle brace) and 2 for the front (eyelet, calipers). It seems like I only have the eyelets. Surely someone's made a kickstand brace that doubles as a fender mount, but I can't find one.

GeoKrpan

I had one of those. I put a drop bar on it and toured on it. The top tube was longer than a road bike because it was designed for flat bars.
If the fork has an 1.125" steerer, you might consider using it with the Nashbar frame.

suncake

The top tube is quite long. I'm keeping my eye out for an extra tall quill stem with minimal extension.

How'd you like it as a tourer? Did you have it setup using the monostay mount (above) and full fenders? Thanks!

bradtx

suncake, I don't think there's any advantage, nor disadvantage from mounting to the canti studs. My opinion is that the majority of weight is carried at the bottom of the carrier and the upper attachment point primarily keeps the rack/carrier level, correction requested if I'm incorrect. My SKS fenders have two stays in the rear and a clip for the chainstay bridge (I need to add an Adel clamp for securing to the brake stay). The front has a single stay and uses the caliper hole.

It looks like the e-bay bike has inline adjusters.

Brad

Nigeyy

I'll be somewhat of a voice of dissent on this one.

You have the frame -might as well see if you can use it. From what I can see the problem is the top tube cable stops -get those at an affordable price and then move onto the bottom bracket cable guide (e.g. I got one from my LBS for a couple of bucks). The only problem you might face is the thread being stripped -but you should also be able to retap it as well pretty cheaply.

Assuming you can get the cable stops at a reasonable price, buying another frame even at $100 ain't going to be the cheaper route. It's usually the components that cost more and tools and/or labour required.

GeoKrpan

I thought the frame was overbuilt, overly stiff. I didn't like the long reach to the bars, then, but I might like it now.
Is that a 1" or 1.125" steerer tube?

I used some clamps on the seat stays for the upper rack attachment. The monostay on my bike was not drilled.

I live in California where you don't see many bikes with fenders, I don't use them.