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New or Used Touring Bike?

Old 07-27-11, 01:50 AM
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Marvel
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New or Used Touring Bike?

I have done one tour of reasonable length in my life so far, approximately 2000km, and I did this on a converted mountain bike. Although I had no serious problems with this bike, I would prefer to tour with a bike that is suited for the job from now on.

Enter the subject.
https://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and...AdIdZ300359540
This is a bike that I am interested in purchasing. But what I am wondering is whether I am doing myself a disservice by buying a used bike as opposed to a new one when I am already fairly certain that I will continue bike touring throughout my life. I know I may want to buy a new part or two for this bike, and it won't likely last as long as a new one, but it is also -- obviously -- significantly cheaper. Am I really gaining so much by spending another $1000 or so for something brand new? And do you think this bike is worthy?

Any and all opinions are appreciated
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Old 07-27-11, 03:34 AM
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If it's the right size, buy it. I'm not sure I'd use out for touring but it's a nice looking ride. If I didn't have to pay a mint for shipping I'd buy it myself.

Marc
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Old 07-27-11, 07:50 AM
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I still know diddly about the technical side of bikes, but if it fits you, you like it, and you can afford the $130, why not? If nothing else, you can use it as a temp bike while you decide exactly what you want as a more permanent tourer. It's a really nice looking bike and already has racks and fenders.
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Old 07-27-11, 07:59 AM
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that is a very tall bike appropriate for someone with 36" or so inseam. It could be worth it if you don't want to spend more than $200 but it's really not possible to say if it's worth it without knowing the status of the wheels. If you are a very tall person planning on carrying lots of weight there are better touring bikes than those made with regular diameter road tubing from 30yrs ago. Like a converted mtn. bike or a touring bike with large diameter tubes and sturdy wheels.

The issue isn't getting new or used, it's whether that new or used bike best meets your needs, function and cost.
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Old 07-27-11, 08:07 AM
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Nice bike for a very tall rider.
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Old 07-27-11, 10:05 AM
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A hard-tail Mountain Bike , simplified, with a rigid fork , is a pretty good base
for building a Touring bike around , wheels already more rugged...
A low enough gearing, included on an MTB,

will need to be installed on that CB ,
if the rider goes out of province .. SK is pretty well flattened .. As I recall

but looks like a decent [531?] frame and fork,
being a tall somewhat light standard diameter tube set
frame will have some flexing when really Loaded Down.

Of course a rebuild would be 1st thing I'd do, clean and OH wheels , Headset ,BB
replace brake cables and housing,,all the usual maintenance stuff.
to reduce needing to fix stuff on a tour , in a weird place.

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-27-11 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:28 AM
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One point you made was that you had toured, but wanted something better than an MTB. So while I am not one of those people, a lot of people think an MTB is near ideal for even road touring. So you are talking about a refinement of 10%, or less. Will this bike make it. I can't see it, it may at one time have been a nice frame but other than the tubing used there really isn't a single optimal thing about the bike in question.

One could shake loose some reasons for liking it a lot, vintage, love downtube shifters, love gold, love lugs. None of that would be on my dream touring bike, though lugs are OK. But with a different set of motivations it might fit the bill. Not for an optimized modern touring machine.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:30 AM
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I am about 6'2" with long legs, so I'm thinking/hoping this bike will fit nicely.

Marc, you said you wouldn't use it for touring. Why not? Currently, I have only one bike -- the aforementioned mountain bike -- and I have no interest in owning more than two bikes (at least for some time to come). Although I wouldn't mind joining a casual cycling club someday, I am primarily looking for a 3-seasons commuter and tourer out of this bike. The plan is to go across Canada next summer, so I would need to get more gears on it and a front rack, for sure. Saskatchewan is flat, but northern Ontario and BC are not.

In terms of wheels, I don't really know how to determine their "status." All I know is that I need true wheels that can handle a load. What should I be checking out for to know whether or not I will be needing to replace the wheels?

I've heard from some that Reynolds 531 are awesome for touring, so I suppose I am a bit surprised to hear that I would want otherwise. Is it simply because the diameter of the tubing is so small? Does that mean a higher risk of breakage or just more flex? Simply put, if the frame isn't worth it, then the bike probably isn't for me. I can deal with replacing some of the other stuff if the geometry and material of the frame is suitable.

But as dengidog said, I can always sell it to someone else if I find something more suitable.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:38 AM
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Yes, MassiveD, I am looking for something that is lighter (despite being aluminum, it's a pretty heavy frame); has larger, skinnier wheels; some sort of steel frame; and something without disk brakes! (annoying for trying to find a quality rack.) All of these things are reasonably easy to find in a bike, but for everything else to stay optimal at the same time seems a challenge -- particularly considering I don't want to be spending a fortune, if at all possible.
Thanks for your opinion.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:47 AM
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"I am about 6'2" with long legs, so I'm thinking/hoping this bike will fit nicely."

Fit is the single most important thing, so since you get to see this bike before you buy it, you should be able to sort it out, so long as you are experienced in sellecting road bikes. Talking about legs is mostly the stand over thing, if you have long legs relative to your top, you may have problems with reach, and that can be harder to correct.


"Marc, you said you wouldn't use it for touring. Why not?"


There are three criteria for a touring bike. Is it easier to ride than to walk (or ride some other bike you own); Will it hold up as long as you need it to; will you be able to remain comfortable/in good health as you continue to ride it. This bike could pass that test, but the optimize my tourer test is a whole lot tougher.

"The plan is to go across Canada next summer, so I would need to get more gears on it and a front rack, for sure. Saskatchewan is flat, but northern Ontario and BC are not."

nb IS ALSO A PEACH. It is the upgrades thing. If all you get out of it is a frame, you are saving only a few hundred dollars, you could probably get a Nashbar frame even to Sask for what this costs, and depending on fit, be further ahead. Most old bikes will not fit any of the new stuff. Wheel spacing, wrong. Stem, expensive hard to find and less functional threaded style. Wheel spacing wrong. Brazeons wrong for you gear, and maybe gears. Tubing not optimzed for high powere breaks. Who knows how original the alignment and strength still are.



"In terms of wheels, I don't really know how to determine their "status." All I know is that I need true wheels that can handle a load. What should I be checking out for to know whether or not I will be needing to replace the wheels?"

Need to be alloy wheels, 36 spoke or more, and current tight condition is desireable. If it's a freewheel bike, that's cool but it can be hard to find the parts, and the rear axle could be weak. I have mostly ridden freewheel bikes, but for heavy stuff I want Phil back there, though LX has actually worked for me.

"I've heard from some that Reynolds 531 are awesome for touring, so I suppose I am a bit surprised to hear that I would want otherwise. Is it simply because the diameter of the tubing is so small? Does that mean a higher risk of breakage or just more flex?"

531 is the right stuff, but as far as it's being awesome, it is just 4130 butted of a low tensile strength for modern standards. It's great, but it isn't any better than what is currently out there. I think that small tubes can be great, the main reservation I would have was for tough tours, which trans Can isn't, or rough riders. We are an abuser culture these days, people just trash stuff, and some people legitimately run stuff very hard. But light tubes are fine for a Big guy who doesn't also want to overload it, and drop off ledges. I like em.


"But as dengidog said, I can always sell it to someone else if I find something more suitable."

Why go to the trouble if it isn't a solution to what you want.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:52 AM
  #11  
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I'd buy it if my legs were long enough.Lots of people here have "frame flex problems".I'm not sure what they expect,it's tubing,it either flexes or it breaks,take your pick.It isn't too much fun riding a bike that's stiff as a board for a 1000 miles.

If I was looking for a light touring bike,I'd buy it.

I have a 1978 Shogun,with triple butted 531,it moves around,it's suppose too.I can let go of the handle bars at any speed I want,fully loaded and it tracks just fine.I don't want a bike that's as stiff as a race bike,I'm not racing,I don't care if all of my 100 watts gets to the ground.I give up some stiffness for ride comfort.

You can get a stiff frame and run the tires low,but it make me feel like I'm riding around with a load in my shorts.

I've never had the feeling the bike was going to move out from under me,front wheel go from lock-to-lock,yoyo through the corners.Most bikes will handle OK to tour on,you might have to move stuff around(load or panniers) until you get everything where it's happy,but that's pretty much the same on any bike.

Your mountain bike is more than suited for the job.The chainstays may be an inch short,it might have quicker steering than you like,they tend to have a long top tube and some foot overlap,but they are more than strong enough and make for a nice touring bike.

Or you can drink the coolaid and get an LHT....Then everything will be perfect.....LOL!

Last edited by Booger1; 07-27-11 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 07-27-11, 11:59 AM
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for weight and size of rider a choice is made as to tube wall thickness
by framebuilders.. .. the thicker , the stronger.. even if not oversize
built bike , Big unknown.. on that .. .
plus long tubes in that size frame will influence flexing..

standard sets.*Top : 1'', down and seat-tubes 9/8"

oversize may use 9/8" for all 3 ,, or go to a 1 1/4" downtube

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-27-11 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 07-27-11, 12:00 PM
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I had a bike built on one of these, and it was great, they have made a few changes, but this shop understands touring:

https://urbanecyclist.ca/products/fra...-touring-frame



https://www.marinoni.qc.ca/html/TouringFr.html (seen a few serious dude on these)

https://www.bikes.com/main+en+01_101+...ATID=26&Y=2011

https://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...34374302886469 (aluminum though)

https://www.canadianmade.com/bikes.htm
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Old 07-27-11, 12:06 PM
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Fietsbod is right, but the formula for touring bikes is really not all that variable. You read 100 discussions on big boys on bikes, and the only part that really varies is the chain stay, and you aren't going to get variance on that with a factory bike. Now you will get different diameters of tubing in the main triangle, It tends to be the same thickness. The diameter makes a massive difference (to the third power), but the fact is that you will get different approaches to this through history, and today as regards different purposes. Pretty much all work on the trans canada. For big boys to experdition tourers, you can pretty much spec a touring bike a 1 1/8" 9/6/9 wall for anything. And sure you could also have super oversize, but if it is all out there it all works. My personal preference as a lourd is 1 1/8" 9/9/9. It isn't rocket science.

I like the front end on that bike, but the rear end is not to my taste, just not modern.

Last edited by MassiveD; 07-27-11 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 07-27-11, 03:14 PM
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Reynolds 531 tubing is whats used on a lot of motorcycle trials bikes and is good stuff.
Claude Butler used to be all UK sourced and built but then went to China. It depends on the age of the bike.
At $130 it would be a good buy if it didn't need too much of an overhaul.
Chain and sprockets, tyres, having the wheels rebuilt; can add quite a bit, where as buying new will give you the confidence that nothings going to need attention out on the tour.
A bike frame like that would always be easily resalable; so go for it.
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Old 07-27-11, 04:51 PM
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I'd spend $130 for a 531 frame anyday, I've had two, still ride one. The fact that it's a Claud Butler is a huge plus. If it's close to your size I'd recommend buying it.

Marc
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Old 07-28-11, 07:40 PM
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I've done the cost to cost tour, owned 5 touring bikes, none of them very special. I go about 220 lb. & take enough stuff to be prepared to take care of myself. A touring bike needs 3 things #1 low rider ft. + rear rack mounts, #2 tripple crank set, #3 drop handle bars. A fiew older MTB's have lower fork tunels for the low rack to fit, oneof these could be the begining of a good touring bike. The Claud buttler is a nice old bike, but if a person is tall enough to ride it they probably are heavy enough to make those skinney 531 pipes flex pretty bad under a load.
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