stoves for famil bike touring
 

We just had our first bike tour as a family.. ... nothing special, nothing serious, just 4 days of fun along the Danube in Austria.

As my wife had never ridden much and was sure she could not do long rides we ended up driving to the campground, sleeping there each night and made short rides out... the longest was 60 km (my wife had never written more than 25, but she loved this one)... we had our trusty Soviet built stove that uses LPG (I think that's what it is in English).

It worked well, but the stove it too big to carry in a pannier/trailer and the canister is huge....

Now, as I said this trip we got there by car so there were no worries but Evi wants to go back by train and ride Grein, Austria to Vienna (I will convince her to extend it all the way home to Budapest) but we need to get a new stove.

There are 5 of us and we would make drinks in the morning, soups, pasta, rice etc for dinners in the evenings.....

So, what does one look for when buying a stove? What is good for boiling at least a liter of water at a time etc?

This will not be used at high altitudes or in winter (unless I can convince them to come with me ski touring).... What I do like about our Soviet stove is that the canisters are refillable.... I just go to the depot, leave the empty and bring home a full one. Is this possible with these new stoves?

Thanks

Robi

Robi,

I would consider something like a Trangia stove, they use alcohol and are lightweight. I suspect two of them would weigh less than your current Soviet stove. The alcohol is fairly easy to come by and not hard to handle or store.

I use a variety of stoves but recently my Trangia has been the one that gets the most use.

Aaron :)

I'm sorry, but that sure sounds special to me!!!

I find that a small bottled gas stove the very best for touring, no muss or fuss and they work so well. The gaz canisters are available almost everywhere and are safe to handle. With a group your size extra canisters can be distributed to everyone. I use this one and I love it http://www.rei.com/product/695263/msr-windpro-stove

Robi, I know of someone who goes by the same name and posts on Telemark Tips. Your location makes me think it is the same person. I don't post on T Tips but do post on New England Telemark and know Robrox, Brenda , Yad,and Many other skiers from the Boston area.

Soviet gear has the reputation of being heavy and clunky but will always work regardless of the weather. The gear available in the US is great but the fuel may or may not be available at your location. Alcohol or spirits will also always work though it may not burn very hot. However, it is my understanding that this the the preferred fuel for the Ididerod and Yukon Quest dog sled races because it is foolproof if slow. It may be that the Trangia alcohol stove is your best option if that fuel is available to you. The Trangia is a decades old design that has never failed. Good luck.

I agree!

I'm not sure what's available where you are. I would say go to a backpacking/climbing store and check out what they have. They'll be able to tell you the advantages and disadvantages of what's there.

And have fun!

Of the Petrol stoves, MSR Dragonfly is one that you can actually cook on.
2nd needle valve at the burner head can be throttled back to a simmer.


LPG = liquified petroleum gas. once cold enough to be a liquid , it is bottled,
at room temperature it evaporates , when vented... and is then lit.
there are numerous disposable canister stoves too. .. " Gaz "

they need to leave the canister on the stove , typically,
so still a bit of a volume in the pannier.

Berner, hi! I'm the same Robi... I will be posting a TR of the bike trip on Ttips soon... I have never met any of the Ttipsters from Beantown.... in fac tI have only met a few of the ones living here in Europe (Frank, Bob Maz.., Ash Em, Matej, and Jimsoutside when he was here)....

Nancy, I will actually go to a hiking store for the very reasons you stated, but problem here is you have to know what you want or they will treat you like a fool and not be very helpful in such specialty shops... It sucks, but that is how it is done here, hence my posting here to get some info..

Fletsbob, thanks....

and now to show you all what is avaible here a the biggest outdoor gear shop and the only one selling telemark gear Just in case you end up here Berner....

http://www.mountex.hu/webshop/outdoo...ha/benzinfozok

and

http://www.mountex.hu/webshop/outdoor_konyha/gazfozok


Regarding the alcohol stoves... I have wanted to make one for years now... think I will for my own use when hiking/biking now that I know where to get the actual fuel for it here....

robi

For European lowland travel, gas canister or alcohol Trangia stoves are usual. The Trangia 25 is really a 2-person set so may be too small for a group. If the pot is big enough, it is a good system and can run on gas or alcohol.
Petrol and multi-fuel stoves are quicker to boil but really for places where camping fuel is hard to find.
I have seen couples touring with a 2-burner stove and a heavy, re-fillable gas bottle but it is too heavy. A lightweight twin-burner stove like Campingaz Duo would be good.

I use a white gas type stove during winter camping and it has worked perfectly for many years. During summer camping it is hard to beat the convenience of stoves using isobutane/propane fuel mix but I'm surprised it seems to be so readily available in Europe. If you go with this type fuel I would suggest a stove type similar to the Primus Express Spider, where the stove does not screw directly onto the fuel canister. If cooking for a a group, the separate stove will be more stable with less chance of tipping over. Looking forward to your trip report on Mitch"s pysch experiment, otherwise known as T-Tips, (just a joke).

MSR Whisperlite Internationale. I have it, it's a multifuel stove meaning you can burn basically whatever type of fuel you come across. If you're in third world countries you'll be able to burn gasoline like you'd use for a car, which produces some soot but that's a minor annoyance considering how cheap it is. Here in the states I can fill my .6 liter fuel bottle for under a dollar, and that's a week's worth of cooking for one-two people.

It's also super-durable, easy to clean (just shake it) and will work at high altitudes if you ever need it to.

I'd get a Primus Classic canister stove. Cheap, lightweight, sturdy, reliable and works with canisters from other brands except Bleuet. You don't need to leave the canister on when not in use. I believe Primus sells an optional stand/hose to put the canister off to the side so you can use a wind breaker.

I used to have a Whisperlite - very reliable, easy to use, and if you're just boiling water, it's great. Don't try rice or anything requiring lower temperatures though.

My new stove (a fabulous Christmas present accompanying an Outback Oven) is an Optimus Nova+. It got some bad PR a couple years back due to an O-ring problem and subsequent recall, but it's a solid stove with great simmering capabilities (like the Dragonfly).

I'm a big fan of multi-fuel/white gas stoves, as the bottles are reusable. You can also open up the bottle and see how much fuel you have left, and you can buy white gas pretty much anywhere (or in a pinch, use pretty well any kind of petrochemical). Canister stoves are easier to use, as you don't need to prime them, but that's about the only advantage I can see.

My roommate has an alcohol stove, and we take that on short backpacking trips. It's nice because it's silent and the fuel doesn't stink, and with a bit of coercion you can get it to simmer. However, it chews through a ton of fuel (probably double the amount a white gas stove uses), so the weight savings balance out in the end. In addition, alcohol stoves are very slow... don't expect coffee right away in the morning!

All in all, all types of stoves have their advantages and disadvantages. These are just my opinions, but for my usage (mainly backpacking where I'm away from cities), the white gas/multifuel stoves win.

Edit: I just saw that you're a group of five. I would steer clear of alcohol in this case - you'll be chewing through a lot of fuel, very slowly. I'm not sure how long it would take to boil a litre of water (15 minutes perhaps?), but most alcohol stoves recommend only boiling half a litre at a time.

well, all the info is useful, thanks!

MEC does not deliver to Hungary as far as I know.... but thanks for that Optimus NOva tip....

robi

Lately, my family has been using the Sierra zip (titanium version) and a 2.4 L pot. This stove is wood burning and uses a AA battery to drive a small fan. We almost always use pine cones, but it also does well with small sticks (pencil width). We've never spent more than a few minutes gathering fuel in the areas where we tour. We use a small piece of paper as a starter, again readily available to bike tourers. We have no trouble boiling water, and maintaining a boil for 10 minutes, for pasta in our 2.4 L pot. It does take some attention, because the fan creates a blast-furnace effect which goes through fuel FAST while burning very hot. You can also turn down the fan for more moderate heat to try other more controlled cooking techniques, but we only boil water, heat soups, etc. There is really no limit to how much water you can boil, given the ready availability of fuel in most campgrounds. Best of all, we do not need to search for or carry fuel.

We have never had the opportunity to test it after several days of rain on tour. Before we used it, I did take it out in the yard and gathered wood and tested it after 2 days of quite heavy rain. With 2 8-1/2x11 pieces of paper as a starter, I had no trouble starting the stove or boiling our 2.4 L pot. The turbo-charging from the fan makes a big difference.

I will eventually run through my AA battery, but it lasts a while. I already carry spares for my bike lights already, and I might need to buy 1-2 AAs on a long trip.

These Zip stoves have a long and well established history in the backpacking community. They are not some fly-by-night product.

The biggest disadvantage is the open fire aspect. I have read that they are considered contained stoves and can be used in locations with no campfires. That I would certainly agree with. However, in areas with extreme fire risk I would not use a zip stove. Not an issue here in New England.

Robi, I'm heading over to Budapest in ten days to do a circle tour down through the Balkans. If you're on the route we should meet up. I can show you my Optimus Nova+ stove (which by the way simmers very well). I use gasoline in it. Which city are you in?

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the other downside of the Whisperlite - no temperature control whatsoever. Everything's a tradeoff...

Almost but not quite. LPG is pressurized to maintain its liquid state but it isn't a cryogenic fluid. Under pressure it will maintain its liquid state at ambient temperatures. When you reduce the pressure, i.e. let it out of the pressure vessel, it will go back to a gaseous state.

Robi: For an individual or a couple, alcohol might be sufficient. For larger groups however, the heat output is low. The more water you want to boil - for pasta as an example - the longer it will take. A higher energy fuel is needed. The MSR Whisperlite burns white gas or gasoline. As Jude says, the control on the Whisperlite is poor.

A Primus Multifuel burns white gas, gasoline or butane, like your LNG stove. The control on the stove is better and the choices for fuel are wider. You could take canisters (not refillable) for a short trip like yours and/or carry the bottles for liquid fuel if you go through canisters too fast. It's not cheap however.

A plain butane canister stove is light, cheap, reliable and provides lots of heat. They have the best temperature control of any stove. It's also limited to only canisters which, again, aren't refillable.

Since you're in Europe, try the Campingaz website. They're the Swedish-based company that makes well known gas canister stoves with the blue cartridges, and they are available everywhere in Europe (at least western Europe when I traveld there a few times in late 1980s and through the 1990s). Since your needs are cooking for 5 people, you could use two of their smaller backpacking stoves. They'd work great for simply boiling water and simple cooking.

FWIW: their newer blue gas canister cartridges with the screw-thread tops, will work on most other styles of canister stoves MSR, Primus, etc). The older style clamp on stoves used a canister with no threads on top, so should be easy to distinguish in a shop.

I use an MSR Dragonfly, which is a multi-fuel stove with adjustable flame. You might want to take a look at it. Maybe you could get a Primus Classic canister stove to use along with it since you and your wife could each carry one. While alcohol stoves like the Tatonka and Trangia are great, for your needs, I think these other options would serve you better.

+1 on the Sierra Zip stove. I'll be going on a 2-week tour with my family in a few weeks and we are taking our Zip stove. It makes quite a hot fire and there is no need to carry a fuel bottle.

For solo trips, I like the Trangia alcohol stove. But I prefer the Zip stove when cooking for the family, the Trangia takes too long to heat a larger pot of water or food.