*update with photo* Surly Announced Disc option for LHT. what do you think?
 

**Update will just go at the top, after looking all day for photos of Interbike I found one of the front fork of the Surly Disc LHT, also surly updated there website with specs for more bikes(no photo on the surly site yet). Just a little bit of leg to show for now. More if I find some, or if anyone else has them.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/...b81229b504.jpg



Cross posted in Commuting. HERE

Surly Announced a Disc option for the Long Haul Trucker for 2012.
I would just like to get to know what people think about this option and if they might think about getting it.

I will have to say I love my "Classic LHT" and don't think I would ever care for Disc. I do think its cool that they keep expanding there like.

**Fixed**http://surlybikes.com/blog/archives/2011/08/

From the Surly Blog.
There is a lot of other cool info about there new lineup in the post as well. Including the Moonlander and Troll Complete

Interesting, thanks for posting.

theyre doing catch up with the other companies.

Like :Redline conquest classic already along that theme.. also TIG welded Steel.

Makes sense. My main concerns would be:

What are they doing to the ride. Normally you end up having to beef up the forks and the stays, and you affect the ride. They are obviously doing the right thing to the stucture not just tacking on some brackets to existing frames, but it will be interesting to see what happens. Nothing all that new here since they have done disc bikes before, I imagine we can tell where they will go with it.

How will it all fit in with racks. Surly makes bikes and racks, and probably knows what the main racks are that get put on their bikes. So it will be interesting to see how they work that stuff out.

I'm interested, but as MassiveD said, how will it affect racks and the ride. I'll wait and see, I think.

thanks for the post, but meh. Disc tabs on the Long Haul Trucker?

QBP already makes a LOT of disc tab bikes.

Why 'improve' what could stay an iconic diamond frame bike for perpetuity? I guess its to meet consumer demand. at least they are keeping the standard LHT for the moment.

They don't get any better than the LHT frameset for proletariat touring bikes in this century.

Personally I think it's about time. I went with another manufacture because it did not have disk brake options among other things.

The disc option does not interest me for a touring bike at all. On a tour this Spring with steep mountain descents, I found the rotor and pads just heated up far to much. Brake pads stopped working well and I had to wait for the rotors to cool down. This was on unusually long descents, but still not something I like to have happen. I will stick with my rims brakes for now.

But wouldn't your rims have heated up just as much on those descents with cantis? Hot rims = tire blowout, right?

That's interesting as it's absolutely the opposite of what proponents of disc brakes claim is their advantage - fewer overheating issues and better stopping.

In theory the larger rotor surface dissipates heating better then the narrow rim of a regular wheel. Is it possible that had you been using canti's/V brakes with standard rims, you might have had even greater problems ?. No way to know really, but your experience fly's in the face of everyone that's ever used discs on a mt. bike, where they are pretty much the only brake system being installed on higher end bikes.

My question is, how many manufacturers build 700c wheels designed for discs and are they racing cross wheels or designed for touring ?.

You can easily get 36 or 40 hole hubs that are disc-compatible. They've been using them on tandems.

I went with the Salsa Vaya for my commuter/lite touring bike. Disk brakes was one of the reasons I went that direction. About 6-8 months into it, I am really not impressed. Honestly, I can’t say I am disappointed, but disk brakes wouldn’t be a deal breaker for my next bike. Personally I think I would prefer the "old" Trucker. Just wish they would roll out some of those cool older colors!

As far as wheelsets, I think there are a lot of “29er” options out there that would work well for touring. You can get a nice set of Mavic 317/719 rims with Deore hubs without breaking the bank. I have been quite happy with them although they are slightly heavy.

Hmmm...I dunno, I think I'd go with the discs if I were to have had a choice when I bought my LHT. But having said that, I have only ever been on one descent that I would really have benefited from them...and I am planning to descend it again in May...coming off the Blue Ridge Parkway into Vesuvius. I'm happy with my LHT as it is now.

I do not discount your experience, but I found the opposite of what you stated.

I just completed a tour where a friend and I had 12 miles of downhill at 6% grade. We were both fully loaded and were descending for the same approximate amount of time. We stopped mid way down and my friend's rim was HOT, while my rotors were hot they were less than his. I noticed no performance degradation and still had lots of modulation which helped on the gravel/dirt mix descending fully loaded. My friend's rim was so hot that he was very concerned about continuing without the infamous blowout.

Again I understand you had a different experience. I actually had the other brake technology to compare against and I still prefer disc brakes over cantilevers.

Another point that has not yet been mentioned is versatility. It is harder to make a frame designed for 700c wheels work with a 26 inch wheel because of the location of the brake bosses. A disc frame with sufficient space for a 700c wheel can easily accept both a 700c wheel and a 26 inch wheel because the brake rotor and hubs are identical. The versatility of these new frames is going to be a big advantage for those who want to use 700c and 26 inch wheels. I have a few extra mountain bike wheelsets laying around that would make it very easy to swap in and out.

I don't think the rims would have, had I been using rim brakes. I have never had issues with rims heating up on long descents. I think the smaller diameter of the rotor and the closer it is to the rotating hub, gives the rotor less time to cool.

You are correct but I believe the disc rotors are designed to handle much higher heat. The composition of disk brake pads is very different than the rubber pads for cantilevers. The rotor is only attached to the hubs, so if they get "too hot" they are not touching anything that will melt or explode.

don't let the shop throw away the packing,
you will need it to pack the bike up for travel
and not have the discs , bent up in transit.


I have never had any rim heating issues on a single bike , ever.
you just don't need to hold the brakes on all the time.

Disc rotors don't have a larger surface area then a wheel. Even a 203mm rotor (far from the standard size) has a much smaller surface area and is a much smaller heat sink than even a small diameter rim. What a disc rotor has going for it is that it can heat up to very high temperatures without heating up the tire also. But heating up a rim to the point of blowing a tire off doesn't necessarily mean that the brakes are bad, it only means that the person using it doesn't know how to brake properly. Heating a disc rotor to very high temperatures shows the same lack of proper braking.

Disc on mountain bikes are there for two reasons. Number one is because of suspension systems that make mounting rim brakes difficult. Mountain bikes always came equipped with discs...as do all bicycles with rim brakes...it's just that the brake become more problematic when you disconnect the rear triangle from the front.

The second reason, as with putting 'disc' brakes on road bikes, is mostly fashion. I have disc equipped mountain bikes and rim brake equipped mountain bikes. Neither stops any better - or worse - than the other. If anything the hydraulic disc equipped bike has worse brakes than any rim brake equipped bike I've ever ridden. It requires much more attention to when - and how much - the brakes are applied.

For those who have never had the unique experience with rims heating up. Here are a couple of quotes from riders coming down off the Blue Ridge Parkway into Vesuvius.

"Four and a half hours later, I reach the pinnacle and it's down Mount Vesuvius. I'm elated and I have this euphoric feeling rushing through my body as I coast down the winding roads but it's soon over taken with the unmistakable scent of fear as I barrel down the sharp, curving snake-road-of-death and ride my brakes so hard that they begin to melt to the side of my rim."http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=77493&v=Sa

"We stop four times on the descent to cool our rims. At least we're headed downhill. I pity the poor eastbounders, even if it's only three miles. At the bottom, the actual town of Vesuvius is just a crossroads, and an anticlimax. But Vesuvius Hill is unforgettable."http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=89408&v=vX

"Now for the fun part of the day. There is a steep 4 mile downhill on a narrow road full of switchbacks just before the town of Vesuvius, VA. (glad I'm going westbound). This was a white knuckle ride or sure! As if that wasn't enough there were patches of fine gravel all over the place that really had me worried. I rode my brakes as best I could dodging the gravel but began smelling burning rubber halfway down. Not sure how hot the rims got! I don't want to pop a tire due to over heating." http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=75695&v=St

After 26 miles on the Parkway, we turned right and headed down to Vesuvius, in fact a 3 mile 16% down grade. With me, the bike and the gear, I'm pushing close to 300 pounds. I had to stop three times to let Connie's wheel rims cool. If you don't the heat can build up to the point that the tires can blow. They rims became so hot from the braking action you couldn't touch them.
[[/B] http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=75401&v=EL

These quotes can go on and on. There is one (I can't remember who it was) who actually did have a blow out because his rims got too hot. We rode down this descent and had to stop a number of times to let the rims cool. We were on a Santana Triplet equipped with drum brake and rim brakes...I was on all of them. I actually tried to feel the rims...they were too hot to touch! I think we stopped at least three times.

I can assure you I know proper braking techniques...this descent does not allow "On and Off" (allowing cooling during "off" phases) brake applications. With that said, it is the only descent I have been down like it.

Mapmyride calls it a CAT 1 climb.
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/47857002

I'm really excited about it. I plan on selling my current frame and swapping for a disc frame when it comes out. It's the only complaint I've had about my LHT. As long as they got it right (Surly usually does) they just made me the perfect bike.

I love disc brakes. I also like v brakes quite a bit, but I find the drop bar options for v brakes inferior to the cantilever options. I find the shimano STI shifter hoods, as well as the tektro canti hoods much more comfortable than the linear pull hoods. Since I hate cantis and vastly prefer v's, I've put up with the less comfortable hoods for the last couple of years. But now with the new disc LHT I can use the brakes I want, and the levers I want. Yay.

I don't really care about discs, mainly cause I have my touring bike already, it is perfect, and will likely not be buying a new touring bike anytime soon.

However, the "Super Dark Green" caught my attention. Wish I had that instead of doo doo brown for my cross check, though I do like the doo doo brown.

Cantilever rim brakes can a do overheat the rim. You just need a big, steep mountain road.
Crossing the Picos de Europas in Northern Spain, I did 1/2 hr of road descent at 10-15%. I feathered the cantilever brakes but still my rims heated up so much it burnt my finger when I tested. I had to stop and let them cool down.

Not just "two" reasons.

The disc tends to stay drier and less grittier than rims do in wet conditions.
They also can be easily replaced.

I'm in two minds personally. I can see the benefit of discs - they save the rim and are much more effective, but I've never had a rim wear out and have found V-brakes to be effective enough. If anything, the only time I've found disks to be effective were on my long bike with two kids and a load of stuff. the whole lot, bike included, must have been close on 100 lbs, and stopping short needed the clamp of a good disk brake. But on a normal bike, even a fully loaded tourer, V's have been enough, and I like the simplicity of old syle cantis or V brakes. I know what I'm doing. On my long bike, I had a squeak on my disk brakes and took ages to adjust it out, and that was cable disc. Hydrolics look a real pain.
Personally, I can't see the point, esp if you're out in the kuds. You need something you can fix with ease. A broken cable can be fixed - I never cut gear or brake cables, but coil them up, so should a rear brake or gear cable go, I can uncoil the front one and swap it out for the back putting the old back one, cut down on the front. But I'm 47 and that's how we did it back then.

I think they'll get a bit more of the market. I've got a 26" wheeled LHT with Rhyno Lite rims. This bike will probably last until I can no longer ride. No desire to get discs.