Dan Burkhart 

Fuji has gone back to bar end shifters for the touring model. I was a Fuji dealer until I closed my shop in 2008, and the brifter issue was a topic of conversation between myself and Fuji. Bar end shifters mean that a MTB derailleur can work, and they can always be switched to friction mode if the indexing fails on the road.
One change they made since 2008 that I'm not quite as pleased with is they have switched to threadless headsets, but I'm pleased to see they kept the horizontal dropouts.
If I were buying an off the shelf ready made touring bike, I think I would look no further than the Fuji.
If I was looking to do a frame up build, the Surly would get the nod.
https://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/touring5

Ridefreemc

Fuji - This seems like a good deal -https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/classifieds/?o=1r4vFZo&classified_id=2524&v=D

Got pretty low gearing, racks, etc. - seems ready to go. What do you think?

CCrew

Keep in mind that if you're settling in on the Fuji, the Windsor Tourist from BD is essentially the same bike.

ezdoesit

+1 for the Fuji-
It's a 2008 click on the picture for full displace

staehpj1

Actually not since Fuji went to bar end shifters. FWIW I much prefer STI brifters and thought the move to bar end shifters was a big downgrade.

BTW, I am pretty happy with my Windsor and have done a few longish tours including the Trans America on it.

Dan Burkhart 

Not from a reliability standpoint.We're talking about a touring bike after all.
Fuji went BACK to bar end shifters in response to customer feedback.

Dan Burkhart 

The 2008 came with the rack, 1" threaded headset and brifters. There has been a couple of changes as I mentioned previously.

staehpj1

My personal preference entirely, but...
I find the reliability of STI to be adequate and their convenience to be much superior. I find bar ends to be especially inconvenient and tend to bump them both when parked and when getting underway. Back in the day, before the advent of STI, I had a set of Dura Ace bar ends and hated them. I took them off and put on down tube shifters.

Even now, if I didn't have STI I would go back to down tube shifters, but I tend to ride in a more aggressive posture than most so reaching for DT shifters isn't a stretch and requires no additional bending. Additionally I have heard some folks complain that the bar ends that Fuji uses are lousy ones, but I personally couldn't say.

I suspect that Fuji's decision was based on customer feedback and cost cutting.

Gus Riley

I'd prefer STi on my LHT if there wasn't a risk (even as slight as there is) of them failing. If one does fail, especially a right brifter it would require a replacement if it is anything other than Campy. That would be expensive, and if in the middle of nowhere a serious pain in the aft end.

I grew up with down tube shifters, for me bar ends are a natural reach for me...my habit patterns were quick to adjust to the reach. Because of the greater reliability in them, and they are a bit closer to my hands than DT shifters, I prefer them on my tour machine...I rarely ever have to shift my LHT when I'm standing on the pedals. In addition, if my right detent bar end shifter malfunctions it provides me with a friction operational mode as a backup. Peace of mind.

Dan Burkhart 

Yes, well, personal preference trumps all, and many folks are quite happy with their brifters. As for Fuji using lousy shifters, the specs I saw were for Dura Ace. More than adequate in my book.

Dan Burkhart 

My point entirely.

Dellphinus

Check this- there's a spreadsheet of frame sizes vs rider sizes, and a map of LHT owners willing to let others try theirs for sizing.

I ride an LHT- love it.

staehpj1

I must be thinking of some other bike on that one then. Sorry for the mis-information.

Tourist in MSN

Brifters versus bar end shifters certainly cause a lot of heated debate.

One point that nobody else raises is that with a bar end shifter (all Shimano, vintage Suntour, some others) when you put your hand on it you know if you have a pretty good idea on how far you have moved that particular derailleur and in which direction because of the position of the lever. (Same can be said for downtube shifters.) But with shifters where there are two levers (brifters or two lever mountain bike shifters), one lever to upshift and a different lever to downshift, you don't get any feedback from the lever telling you the relative position of the derailleurs and are the derailleurs near the end of their range or not.

Is this lack of feedback a big deal with a two lever shifter like a brifter? I think so. A few months ago I went on a supported tour where the tour company provided the bikes. This was the first time I have ever used a two lever type of shifter for more than a few minutes, the tour was for a week which gave me a chance to get used to using a two lever type shifter. After several days I found that I would shift the rear up or down whenever I wanted to shift and when I got to the end of the range on the rear derailleur, I would then shift the front. Thus I frequently was using cross chained gears because I had no feedback from the lever positions to warn me that I was cross chained. But, with my bar end shifters or down tube shifters, I can easily avoid cross chaining because when I put my hand on the shifter I get that feedback telling me if I am near the end of the shifter range.

I have never used brifters, so accuse me of being biased if you want. But, I learned from that experience that I will avoid using a two lever type shifter (both brifters and flat bar mountain bike type shifters) when it is practical to do so. I am also a proponent of half step or one and a half step gearing and I would have difficulty using such gearing systems with a two lever type of shifter.

MMACH 5

I've got a 2008 Fuji Touring. I've been on a half dozen, long weekend tours. I also use a trailer and haul groceries with it (the most I've pulled is right around 130lbs).

However, This bike's main duty is getting me to work and back. I've put about 12,000 commuting miles on it and beat the living crap out of it the whole way. I've heard tales of Fujis having bad wheels and I've broken about 10 spokes, but I don't know if that is above average or not (I broke almost that many on my other road bike in about the same amount of miles).

I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of the bikes you listed. I just thought I'd toss in my experience with one of them.

ddgunter

Did you have a chance to try out the Safari? I'm intrigued by the bars also but am nowhere near an REI. Please post your thoughts. I notice that the 2012 version has mounts for only 2 bottles, FWIW. Does anyone know the weight differences between these bikes?

DW99

ddgunter, I believe these are 2011 medium size weights, Randonee is 28.1 lbs., the Fuji Touring is 27.7 lbs., the 2010 Fuji that I have was 29 lbs. Didn't find out what the LHT is, looked on the Surly website if it is there I missed it.

Gus Riley

Maybe not super useful, but my 54cm LHT equipped with front, and aft racks, hardware for a handlebar bag, 3 bottle cages, 26" wheels with 1.5" marathons, fenders, tail light, two headlights, and a Brooks Flyer (heavy) weighs in at 33.6 (or .8, I can't remember) pounds.

pdlamb

I always thought 3 bottle mounts was a necessity until the first time I tried to put something in the third one (under the down tube). It would barely clear one of those tiny, non-insulated water bottles without a tire. Any bigger water bottle, or fuel bottle, wouldn't fit. So I took that carrier off, and saved 1.75 oz.

(Note this was a size XL frame.)

Gus Riley

I have always had the same problem...until I purchased my LHT with 26" wheels. A third water bottle fits just right! Another reason I should love my 26" wheels...I'm learning to!

staehpj1

I have always thought that for me at least more than two water bottles is one of those things that sounds like a good idea, but really isn't much of an advantage. I'd rather carry any extra water in recycled sport drink bottles in a pannier. That way it stays cooler and I can adjust capacity by picking up or discarding recycled sport drink bottles. By the time I have emptied two bottles on the frame it is time to take a break any way so refilling the ones on the frame is no hardship.

Fuel... I use either isobutane cartridges or alcohol neither of which I mind having in a pannier. I guess that with white gas or gasoline having it on the frame would be a plus though.

Gus Riley

Yep!

Hangtownmatt

Here are a couple more to check out; both new for 2012:

https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__202339
https://www.rei.com/product/816068/no...onee-bike-2012

I believe the Nashbar is the same as the Fuji and the Windsor.

ddgunter

Thanks for the info... I just assumed if they were there they would fit a normal bottle.

ddgunter

That nashbar touring bike looks like a great deal except for the gearing: 50/39/30 front and 11-28 rear. Of course, this can be changed but I can't help fighting against the idea of swapping parts on a brand new bike. :-)