Custom wheelset 40 spoke rear???
 

I have a Surly LHT with the stock wheels - XT hubs 36 hole Alex Adventurer rims. I talked to Surly and they said they would be good for touring. I am a heavy rider and plan on loaded touring with 35lbs. Should I be looking for new wheels down the road? Any list of custom builders out there?

I'm not sure if you have 26 in wheels or 700c. But, here's a link to Handspun (made by hand) wheels with Velocity rims and Shimano tandem hubs. From what I know, the 145mm tandem hubs can be re-spaced into 135mm but you'd have to ask a shop to do it. I have no idea how. 26 inch model http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=415163 , 700c model with Velocity Dyad rim http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=507042

I recommend you take some short "test" tours first, then reassess when you have more experience / info, and finally research wheel upgrade if/when it is determined there is an actual need for them. In the worst case, you can probably can get by fine with the 36h front wheel, and you'd only need to consider a rear. If 36h isn't enough I doubt 4 more spokes will make much difference - go for the 48h.

Wait a minute - you just bought a new LHT. Why are you re-thinking the wheels now? Buying custom touring wheels on top of a new bike is an expensive lesson in planning.

Aren't you a LBS employee? Why are you not asking these questions at work, where you could get good advice anytime? Also, can't you build a wheel at work, and take advantage of discounted component prices to reduce the cost of this wheel you think you need?

Peter White is an experienced, reputable builder of touring bike wheels:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/

The rear wheel on my LHT (a few years old now) is doing fine. It's also an XT hub and Alex rim, 700c size. (The front wheel was totally destroyed by me when I ran into something). I've toured with at least 20kg on the rear rack, and been over some rough roads. I've also occasionally slid the rear wheel sideways when stopping on wet or slippery surfaces, on my commute. I know that that's the quickest way to wreck (or at least buckle) a wheel, but sometimes it's just fun. (And carrying my mate on the rear rack a short distance also caused no damage ;-) To the bike, at least).

I wouldn't worry about it dude. Just enjoy it and fix it if it ever does break.

I've carried around the weight of a few spokes all the time, and never needed one on this bike.

Cheers, and have a nice ride!

I just want to comment for people who are looking for 40 or 48 hole wheels that I did some searching once and I know I could find Sun Rhyno Lite rims for example in 40 or 48 hole at really cheap prices but hubs were another story. If I remember correctly, I believe I found some White Industries and Halo hubs in 40 or 48 hole. Thing is, Shimano is known for good price/quality ratio for hubs, especially Deore and Tiagra (or even higher).

It would certainly be cool though if Shimano made Deore, LX or XT quality hubs in 40 or 48 hole at reasonable prices. Then it wouldn't be a hassle trying to get them at a good price.

They do ..

Shimano tandem hubs are in 40 and 48 spoke , they come as a 145,
but can be narrowed down with a few parts swaps, like a 135 axle , skewer,
and a few shorter spacers on the left end
Myself,
I put a decade of loaded touring trips on my Phil Wood 48 spoke freewheel hub, seven speed freewheel.
specialized 40 spoke front ..

I bring my wheel builder under my hat.

Rims in thegood old days were of thinner section height and required more spokes tocontrol things and prevent spoke breakage. The newer rims have much greatersection height and are much stiffer. They need fewer spokes.

That said, Ihave a pair of 40 hole Velocity Dyad rims on my 700c touring bike to take my260 lbs and 40 lbs of gear. This year I went 3 weeks on my 26” wheeled bikewith 40 spoke wheels and Velocity Aeorheat rims (they seem to be identical toDyad only in 26”). I went without any wheel problems for the first time. I didhave tire problems, but not rim or spoke.

Heavy guysneed to consider more spokes particularly with the dead weight of 30 or 40 lbsof gear on a bike. I use 40 front and rear. The front wheel carries what amountsto a spare 40 hole rim so that if I am in the middle of nowhere and crunch therear wheel, I can use the front rim to rebuilt the rear wheel and buy a new 32or 36 hole front wheel and continue on my way.

I work with Roadies! (I am one also) Not alot of touring riders around here. This website is great for getting info. Just thinking about wheels down the road if I need them. Hope the stock wheels are ok. Planning a cross country tour in a few years with my friend. We will be doing some "short" tours next year.

Those wheels are very good for touring. When you wear out those rims you'll be looking for new wheels down the road,just as you would for any new extra heavy duty wheels you bought now. The only circumstances I could see you needing to replace the existing wheels is if you are over 275lbs carrying over 35lbs on the rear wheel alone, were going to be FAR from civilization and you simply wanted as much metal as you could get on the rim for long life as the brake pads wear it away.

Extra heavy duty wheels won't prevent catastrophic failures, they'll just last longer. I've had front end crashes that ruined the frame but not the wheel, crashes that ruined the rear wheel but not the frame.

With same rim and number of spokes the you might get the front wheel to last two or three times longer than a rear wheel so if there's any question of needing something tougher you could get a heavier duty rear wheel. If this is your first venture touring and most of it is in the US I'd just ride the existing wheels to the ground.

How heavy are you?

Thanks for the info. Sounds like what I will do. Guess I will be the Shop's touring expert soon!

Too heavy right now! But ok with the setup I have. I will ride the wheels in the ground before I look at building new ones.

The stock wheels are more than "ok", they are very good. I'm not a fan of the milled/machined brake surfaces, I sanded them down a bit with 320grit emery cloth as the brake pads caught some grit and ground into the brake surfaces a bit.

Read my experiences with the Surly stock wheels here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...anning-a-LEJOG

To elaborate, I carry a lot of cooking gear, a 6 lb. 4 oz. 3P tent for the two of us and I use relatively heavy racks (Nitto Big front and rear).

@indyfabz, Thanks for the link. Glad to hear my wheels will be good to tour on! I have my panniers now and plan on a few test rides with my gear to see how she handles. My Cannondale has been collecting dust since the Surly showed up!

just be tooled up to replace a broken drive side spoke , where ever it may happen,
and you should be fine.

Plan on getting the cassette tool from Harris Cyclery And mud flaps from Rivendell.

That is a pretty good wheel.You shouldn't have problems with it.

If you want more strenght,bypass 40 spokes and go straight to 48.You can respace tandem hubs if need be.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Tandemparts.asp

Well, that was weird.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that Shimano HF-08 tandem hubs can be expensive http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...andem+Hub.aspx (to give an example) and not readilly available in 135mm. I mean $100 is 5 times the cost of the Shimano Tiagra I found on sale once. Peter White says the Shimano hubs are the best for the type of hub they sell though.

Here's a thread on re-spacing the hub though: http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/cgi-bi...mes;read=11418

I saw that Aaron's shop in Seattle is selling with modifications to fit shimano hubs in Big Dummys,
the higher spoke count accommodating heavy loading, 135 because that is what the rear is on those..
Ah, Ha !

Any how Less than a Phil tandem cassette hub,,, Though, Their freewheel hub, is my fave.
Old 6 speed on a, 48 spoke hub, I only broke 1 spoke, but since I had 47 spares already in the wheel..
I just did a little wheel truing to balance it again. & rode on ..

I toured on Alex rims and lx while weighing 275, and carrying about 40 pounds, plus food and water. Didn't even need to do a re-true. I put that down to the LBS that built the wheels. Wheelbuilding is no longer a mystery. Peter White is for people who don't know what they are doing, and need a gold standard to fall back on, but there are any number of people who can do a similar job, including first time builders. The problem is knowing what you are getting. A shop that specializes in durability, like touring, or bike couriers, should have a clue.

I really support the idea of higher count spoked rims, I just don't see the downside. But I haven't personally proven the need by breaking stuff. In this place the threads tend to bash higher spoke counts over 36, but support Rhino rims. I'd rather much lighter rims and higher spoke counts, and I would even further prefer the return to old school rims and high spoke counts. But I think for low mileage touring 36 will get her done, and 36 on 26" rims is pretty stout. My idea of low mileage is trans am, and down.

Some shops build better wheels than others. I would trust someone like Peter White who has experience building touring wheels. How many LBS build touring wheels or build wheels in general now that pre-built wheels are the norm.(Campy, Shimano,Zipp....)

I have a set of Peter White's wheels, bought 10/2/07....Phil Wood hubs, 40 spokes front and rear, with 18,764 miles on them including a San Diego to Cape Coral Southern Tier crossing (Credit Card approach, carrying only 24 lbs, 39 days, I weigh 215)
I commute 23.4 miles R/T every day. With our downpours, I regularly ride thru flooded roads in 6" to 10" of water.
.....no failures, no problems, no hassles, no issues.

If you have 26" wheels, 36 spokes are plenty good. Even with 700c wheels you should be fine at 36. I'm not a lightweight rider and my Co-Motion Nor'wester has been fine with 36 spokes and 700c Velocity Aeroheat rims. I also have a tandem and a triplet bike, both of which I've used for touring with 40-spoke wheels carrying a full load of probably 500 pounds of riders + bike + gear with no issues. If 40 spokes work with that kind of load, 36 will be fine for you.

One thing I would suggest is to find a good local wheelbuilder and have him/her check your stock wheels for proper spoke tension, fixing as necessary. That will go a long way to making your wheels the best they can be.

BTW, the Shimano HF-08 tandem hubs are basically XT-level hubs with additional threading on the non-drive side and a beefier freehub. They come in 145 and 160mm spacing, and can be respaced as others have mentioned.

If you are still thinking of building up a 40-spoke wheel, I just was digging around in my parts box today and found an extra NOS (laced up but never ridden) Shimano HF-05 40-spoke hub in 145mm. It looks like it can easily be respaced to 135mm by simply removing 10mm worth of spacers on the non-drive side (you'd have to cut the axle down, too, which is easy). This is a tandem hub, but it is NOT threaded for a drum brake on the left side as most are, so it looks like a regular MTB hub. Drop me a note if you are interested.