Jude

I've gradually been learning more about bikes and touring and so forth, and basically came to the conclusion that I'm looking for a bike that, aside from the key things like being able to handle loads and be comfortable, has 26 inch wheels, disc brakes, and can do both on and off-roading. For the present, I don't have the time to do much more than mountain biking day rides and the occasional weekend bike camping trip, but once vacation time is built up/I've left my current job in a few years, I've got a few long tours in mind I want to do. I'd also want to use the bike as a primary commuter/stuff mover (don't have a car).

The only bikes I know of in what I consider a reasonable price range that fit those criteria are the LHT and the Troll. There's lots of info on the LHT of course, and people have certainly ridden it off of proper roads. The Troll - I've seen a small number of positive reviews about how it tours under loads, mostly for purely off-road touring. Since what I would want to use the bike for, both at home and on tour, would involve mixed on and off road usage, I'm basically wondering what people's opinions are on which one would strike the balance better. I've just test-ridden both (although the LHT was a bit too large for me and the Troll had handlebars I'd definitely not want to use) and liked the Troll a bit more, and I also have a feeling it would handle on-roading better than the LHT would handle off-roading.

So, thoughts? Experiences? Even if you haven't ridden a Troll, what are people's experiences with mixed on/off-road trips and what kinds of bikes are a good compromise?

bwgride

I have use the LHT off-road and it handles fine. In fact I am now trying to piece together a forest service route in National Forests in NC, SC, and GA for next spring that would allow for fun dirt road and dirt trail touring.

For me, however, the Troll geometry provides a better fit since the effective top-tube is longer than a comparable sized LHT. I believe this differences was by design to accommodate better drop handlebars on the LHT for those who prefer that type of bar. I'm a flat-bar rider so I have to use a longer stem (135mm or 150mm) to get a good fit.

The Troll appears to be more versatile (great dropouts, disc or canti brakes, wider tire clearance), and there is no reason to think on-road the Troll would not handle well. Personally I have decided that once my LHT is no longer ride-able I will switch to a Troll.

bradtx

Jude, If your riding is heavily weighted towards dirt, then the Troll would be my suggestion. Ditto if you prefer flat bars.

I base my opinion on my experiance using my touring bike on some mountain bike trails. It worked well, but is just too large for technical single track, which you may encounter searching for a campsite.

Brad.

Bekologist

drop bars are a bummer on steep semi-technical downhills IMO.

LeeG

Sounds like the Troll wins. My 26" wheeled LHT is my do all bike but If I was touring and it involved going off road without shocks I'd want the fattest front tire I could put on. Once you put on 2.0 tires on an LHT and a touring load you're not riding fast anyway so the drop bar set-up doesn't off much advantage there. Titec H bars look good for mixed road/trail riding. For heavy loads off-road I'd be inclined to use an Extra-wheel trailer but that's all guessing, not carrying heavy loads sounds like the better option but if this is your main transportation and utility bike I could see an Extrawheel being useful.

indyfabz

While I have taken my loaded (and unloaded) LHT on dirt/rock/gravel roads, including a couple that were very rough in spots, I cannot imagine being happy riding it on single track. So if you think you might be doing that, the Troll would probably be a better option.

pasopia

I'd say Troll, although I have never ridden one.

I've done a lot of dirt road touring in South America with a 26" LHT. It works, it's not ideal. I didn't like riding drops bars on really rough surfaces, the hood position is not confidence inspiring.

I'm probably replacing my LHT frame with a Troll in the spring. I put flat bars on LHT, but the top tube is a bit too short for them.

If you are going with some type of flat bar, go with the troll, the geometry is better for it. Plus you have better mud clearance, and disc mounts.

Rob_E

Without having ridden a Troll, I would guess the opposite. For road riding, I have a hard time imaging a better ride than my Trucker, but it also has 700c wheels, which I also prefer for road riding.

I would really think the Troll would shine in off-road applications, but, again, I haven't tried it. I've ridden my Trucker on a variety of surfaces, and while it's rideable off-road, it's not my preference. If some off-roading is required as the shortest route, I'll do it, but I'll do it slowly and carefully, although that may also just be my lack of experience off-roading. Also the relatively low bottom bracket can present problems on rough terrain. Don't know how the Troll compares, but since it seems like it was designed with rougher conditions in mind, I would hope it was a little higher off the ground.

For my part, I had an immediate "new, shiny. want." reaction to the Troll, but upon reflection realized that with 99% of my riding being on pavement, it would probably not be an improvement. I figure if I really want something all-terrain, it should be a 2nd bike that functioned better off road than on, rather than one, do-everything bike. But for your requirements, the Troll seems ideal. I hope you get it and report back.

LeeG

I wonder about the Trolls balance with too heavy rear loads, moving the wheel back can give an effective chainstay length longer than 16.9" just like the CrossCheck but the LHT is very tolerant of heavy rear loads. But heavy loads aren't exactly optimum for dirt riding and steep ascents/descents anyway. Paved roads are better for speed and heavy loads.

Jude

I actually had a typo - see the change to the original post. Still, everyone seems to agree with me that the Troll's the better option. It'll be a few weeks yet but once I get my finances figured out and pull the trigger, I'll get some reviews back...this is one bike that could use more of those

Rob_E

With your change, I agree with you.

Rob_E

With either bike, I think the solution would be to avoid too heavy rear loads. I agree that the LHT handles a rear-heavy load well, but in my experience it handles a balanced load better. I keep the front weighted down a little more and it seems to handle better, possibly because of my not inconsiderable rider weight on the rear.

So it's a good factor to consider, if the OP plans to carry the load in the rear. They would definitely want to look at how the Troll handles that kind of load, knowing that the LHT handles it well. But the approach I would recommend is to plan on front and rear luggage solutions for either bike and balance the load however the bike best handles it. I know I spent some time on my LHT with very limited front carrying ability, and it worked fine, but once I had a beefy, front rack, I found shifting weight up front to be very beneficial.

MKIV987

Looking forward to your review, a Troll is likely in the cards for me sometime in the next few months. We'll see how it handles with an Xtracyle : )

Jude

FWIW weight, when applicable, would be divided between front and rear panniers plus maybe stuff on top of the rear rack...I come from backpacking and am pretty sold on the benefits of ultralight stuff, although not all my gear fits the description, I still think my current load (to say nothing of future loads) is already pretty light compared to a lot of bike tourists.

LeeG

Jude, have you checked out Asanas rig? found it on Carousel Design Works gallery. Lots of ideas for ultralight off road touring.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/carouse...57611584848176

more rider photos

https://www.flickr.com/photos/carouse...7611584848176/

iforgotmename

I have taken my 26x 2.0 wheeled LHT with WTB dirt drop handlebars off road on a few occasions and it handles light trail riding well. For singletrack the bottom bracket is a bit low and you have to be careful with roots and such. It's a great do all kind of bike but singletrack is a bit challenging compared to my old mountain bike.

My friend has a Troll and it sure is purdy....

alan s 

My Troll write up is here. Not much touring on it, but I love the bike.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Commuter-Build

John N

Probably the definitive answer for touring with a Troll must belong to Cass Gilbert, currently riding a Troll on a multi-year North/South/North American off-road tour. The kicker is he has ridden a Santos Travelmaster and a Thorn Nomad and prefers the Troll. he has a fantastic blog and takes awesome pictures. You can read about it online. It is called While Out Riding.

Enjoy

irwin7638

I have no experience with the Troll, but I had an LHT and loved it. I did think it would be awkward off road, so as soon as I could afford it I upgraded the frame with a Rivendell Hunqapillar. The Hunq was designed to be a dual purpose touring/29er. It rides as comfortably as the LHT but handles quickly like an MTB. It has definitely proven to be worth the extra money.



Marc

Jude

While we're at it, what would some26" good tires be for a hypothetical tour where I'm on and off road roughly equal amounts of time? What about one where I'm mostly on road? Mostly off?

wandt

Probably out of your price range, but the Tout Terrain Silkroad seems to have the best qualities of both bikes (suspension corrected and good with load). For a slightly lower pricepoint, you can go with a Boulevard. Peter White has the frames for sale at $500 ($235 off retail)

bwgride

For both on and off-road I'd go with something that is wide and smooth if I expected off-road to be packed trails (e.g., dirt road, packed trails like C&O or Katy). I would use a Panaracer Ribmo 26x2.0 ( https://www.panaracer.com/urban.php ) or Schwalbe Big Apple 26x2.0 or 26x2.15 ( https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1328 ) or something similar.

I currently use Panaracer Ribmo 26x1.5 and it performs very well on road and on packed trails. When I upgrade I will probably get the Ribmo 26x2.0.

If you expected off-road to be loose dirt or gravel, I am not sure there is a good tire for both on and off-road. For on-road smooth tread is best so this makes the combination for off-road loose dirt/gravel difficult to address.

Jude

Oh yeah - and kickstands. I've heard some horror stories about LHT frames being damaged/destroyed by kickstands and I know Surly doesn't intend for them to be used - is the same true of the Troll frame? The one I test rode in the shop had a kickstand but it's not set up for loaded touring so I'm wondering if having four panniers' worth of gear would make it too dangerous to lean the bike onto one pressure point. Are there any other types of stands that might be safe to use?

Barrettscv 

If you want a drop-bar bike for touring and easier off-road, consider these models from Salsa.

Many users have completed the Great Divide route with these;

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya_3/

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo_3/

Tourist in MSN

Try Schwalbe Dureme on the front. Maybe a Schwalbe Extreme on the rear but I am not sure if the Extreme is still made, they may have replaced it with the Mondial? I have the Dureme and Extreme tires in 2.0 width. The Extreme however is noisy on pavement.

The LHT kickstand problems are when the kickstand is mounted behind the bottom bracket shell. I have a LHT with a kickstand located there, but I did not tighten the bolt as much as some others have. But, my LHT is the older frame that has the older style rear dropouts and it is possible that the chainstay design may have changed after I bought mine.

A Greenfield kickstand mounted near the rear dropout should not be a problem. But, the new LHT with disks might not have the right geometry for that kickstand, have not seen one of those bikes yet.

Photo shows a Greenfield type kickstand on my Thorn Sherpa, 26X2.0 Dureme on the front and Extreme on the rear.