Denver to Las Vegas
 

Hy,

next year I plan to do a ride by bicycle from Denver to Las Vegas together with my wife. We are just thinking about a possible route and time. As we got only 3 weeks available, I assume we must find a mean to make maybe two short transportation parts in between, where we go some miles by train/grayhound or other stuff - so to speed up a bit and make the whole trip.
Time could be june or august/september. Route either via "Grand junction", "Capitol Reef", "Bryce" and "Zion", or a bit more south through Black Rock C. and then to Bryce ...

As I am from germany and only road two times in western states many years ago, I need some advice on time, route and expecially transportation in between.

Snow may be a problem I assume in june? Or in september again? Which route is most interesting for bikers? I have heard that transportation of bikes in grayhound and amtrek is difficult - as they all require a box, which I can not tranport. As we do not plan to do more than 2 times transportation speed-ups of 100km each, we also need easy means here. Are there any alternatives?

Any help is really appreciated!

Thanks, Tobias

3 weeks should be plenty of time.
Taking a train/bus is not a good short-hop option.
Limited train service - both train and bus require boxing.
Las Vegas to Denver would be better option - esp in June.
Prevailing winds are from the southwest.

Amtrak:
The following http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...=1237608344114 shows Amtrak routes in the west. You can only board the train on stations with baggage service. These include: Lamy, NM; Albuquerque, NM; Flagstaff, AZ; Denver, CO; Grand Junction, CO; Salt Lake City, UT and Reno, NV.

Climate:
Southern Nevada and Southern Utah can get very warm in summer. Average high temperatures of 100F in June, July, August: http://www.rssweather.com/climate/Nevada/Las%20Vegas/ By June last passes should be open in Colorado. I would worry more about summer heat than remaining snow. There is always a possibility of late snow or of abnormal heat.

Alternatives:
I would consider going the opposite direction (Nevada to Colorado), also perhaps think of going a little further north, take rental car from Las Vegas to Reno and then cycle across US 50 and through middle of Utah. This would also bring one closer to Amtrak stations at Grand Junction, CO or Glenwood Springs, CO if somehow time ran short.

Hy and already thanks for the first answers!

going the opposite direction - hmm, interesting, I never considered this ... - isn't it this way much more uphill? I thought the other way would be more downhill, as Las Vegas is much lower than Denver, also from Zion to L.V. ist only down ...
Are winds so strong this time?

The info about train and bus is also vital. To put the bike in a box always is not really suitable. But what are the alternatives for some short-hop?

Headwinds or climbing? Climbing is nearly always the least psychologically damaging. Nearly always! Reverse your route. You won't notice the slow elevation gain, but you darn sure will notice headwinds. And they ARE more likely to be S/SW/W.

If you can't figure out how to get your bikes aboard a train/bus, then consider shortening the trip so you'll have plenty of time to explore the parks. Another option is to hire a local with a truck to drive you down the road a ways. You'd be surprised at how easy that can be. Folks like to help people on bicycles, especially a touring couple. A small town 'mom and pop' cafe or bar are good places to inquire. Or even the police department. They know everybody in small towns.

If you are going to do the trip in June, riding from Las Vegas to Denver is a good option. There's usually no issue with snow by June.

If you were going to do the trip in September, I suggest going from Denver to Las Vegas. Septembers are usually quite mild in the Colorado mountains with fewer thunderstorms and a low chance of snow...although early snow storms can happen. The desert is usually cooler by later in September too.

jamawani is correct in that there is limited bus and train service along this route. I would suggest bypassing some of the places you want to see on a bicycle and heading to Moab. Rent a car there and take a few days to back track by car to see the sights before you get back on the bike to Denver or Las Vegas, depending on which way your go.

Alternatively, do a loop tour of Colorado and parts of Utah and, again, rent a car in Moab to see the things a little further afield.

You could start your ride in Flagstaff, AZ. This provides good access to the Grand Canyon;

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...d/GRCAmap2.pdf

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/58698040/

Then use the Race across America (RAAM) route 375 miles from Cameron, AZ to Del Norte, Co. This very detailed map shows the route;

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/use...10web-maps.pdf

Review the RAAM from page 10 to page 18.

Then follow the Great Divide route from Del Norte, Co north: http://www.adventurecycling.org/rout...?pg=detail&s=4

Finding a route from Silverthorne, Co to Denver should not be difficult.

You should have no problems with snow along this route from mid May to early October during a normal year.

Two things: First, the Great Divide route is a mountain bike route. Lots of dirt and some of it rather rugged. You might be able to do it on a road bike but it wouldn't be too pleasant. Secondly, the ride from Silverthorne to Denver is probably the hardest part of the entire trip. It would certainly be the highest. I don't know that I'd cross over from South Park to the Breckenridge area to get to Denver. There are other alternatives that are a bit easier.

I live in Grand Junction and I'm familiar with riding/touring and driving many of the roads south of Grand Junction and into southeastern Utah.

I'm at work so I can't post much right now.

I can offer more specific advice and maybe some assistance if you are in the area. We are on the warmshowers list.

What route would you recommend from Del Norte to Denver?

I, too, am on the Warmshower list. You can contact me through them, Tobias. Or you can PM me when you get enough posts.

There are several. I probably wouldn't go to Del Norte and instead follow CO 17 from Alamosa to Villa Grove*. Then I'd catch US 285 to Buena Vista. From there there are several ways of going.

1. Through Leadville to Frisco over Loveland Pass along I-70 (you don't have to ride the Interstate)

2. Over Trout Creek Pass and follow US 285 almost all the way. I'd take a detour off of US 285 through Turkey Creek Canyon because the people who drive that are crazy. But that's just details.

3. Over Trout Creek Pass to US 24 and down into Colorado Springs**. Follow the I-25 corridor (again you don't have to ride the Interstate) to Denver.

4. Ride over Poncha Pass to Salida then follow US50 to Canon City*** and up through Colorado Springs.

The highest and hardest route would be through Leadville. The most traffic would be along US285 with one high pass (Kenosha) to cross. The US24 route would have a lot of traffic just before Co Springs but you are going downhill so the speed differential isn't as bad. The lowest, and most circuitous route, would be US50.

*Stop by the Great Sand Dunes National Park and, especially, visit the Alligator Farm outside of Mosca. There's also a wonderful little restaurant/bed and breakfast/general store in Villa Grove.

**Visit Garden of the Gods in Co Springs.

***Make sure you ride over the Royal Gorge Bridge outside of Canon City (there's a tilde over the 'n' so it's pronounced Canyon)

I would consider going the 285 route over Trout Creek which ever way you go if you can arrange transport from Denver to Fairplay the route would be mostly downhill from there. As for transportation you may want to check out one way rentals a lot of companies offer the option of one way rentals. Also you may want to check out http://www.blackhillsstagelines.com/...s.asp?state=CO They offer service along this route and may be a little more liberal on taking bike than Greyhound. Also if you go the Denver to Vegas route one idea would be to put the bikes in cardboard shipping boxes in Denver and take the bus to Fairlpay or Buenivista and discard through away the boxes.

Something like this: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/58728850 (?)

Your link doesn't work. It takes you to a page that says "wildcatman does not share this route."

I fixed the link in post # 13. Use this one: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/58728850

While your general route is okay, some of the roads you suggest would be difficult to impossible on a loaded road touring bike. The road from Montezuma UT to Cortez is mostly or completely dirt. You could ride it on a road bike but it's a rather long distance over a dirt road without any kind of services. Following UT 162/CO41 to US 160 and then to Cortez would be easier on a road bike.

The biggest problem is from Silverton to Lake City. This is a very high, very rugged 4 wheel drive road that is a tough ride on a mountain bike. It'd be almost impossible by road bike. You could go south through Durango to Pagosa Springs and over Wolf Creek Pass to Del Norte or you could go north through Montrose to Gunnison and then to Buena Vista. Both routes have both pluses and minuses. The ride over Wolf Creek is steep and hard but pretty. Once in the San Luis Valley, I'd cross over at Center to Mosca and visit the Sand Dunes.

The route to Montrose goes over Red Mountain Pass which is both gorgeous and frightening. This route passes the Black Canyon of the Gunnison River which is narrower and shallower but steeper than the Grand Canyon.

Don't get me wrong, your route is good but the specifics require a little local knowledge to keep from getting into trouble.

Thanks, Great info.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Back to you, Tobias - -

June is not a bad time to start such a trip - but you must remember that you are talking about riding between two extreme ecoregions - the Mojave Desert with June highs above 40 C to the Colorado Alpine with June lows below 0 C. Thus, it is important to plan accordingly.

If you were to do this trip in June, I would fly into Las Vegas and take the shuttle to St. George, Utah - about an hour away. (9 or 10 trips per day) Bicycling into or out of Vegas is tough. Vegas lives for the automobile. Lots of fast traffic - plus you have to get on the interstate or other dangerous autobahn no matter which way you attempt to ride out. St. George is very bike friendly with bike shops, cafes, motels. A great place to make the transition from international flight to bicycle.

From St. George you could ride to Zion NP, then loop back via Hurricane and Colorado City to Fredonia and to the North Rim of Grand Canyon NP. The North Rim has only 10% of the visitors plus has hiker/biker campsites right on the edge. You would need to backtrack via Fredonia and Kanab to hit the Utah parks - unless you were willing to do dirt. From Kanab, head north on US 89 to Bryce Canyon NP.

From Byrce, follow Hwy 12 to Capitol Reef, Hwy 24 to Hanksville, and Hwy 95 to Blanding. (This section is part of the Adventure Cycling, Western Express Route with detailed maps) From Blanding you can either stay on the Western Express route to Dolores, or head south Via US 191 and Hwy 262 to Hovenweep NM and take the paved county road from Aneth to Cortez, Colorado. Mesa Verde NP, near Cortez, has the finest Ancient Puebloan ruins in the Southwest. Hovenweep has smaller ruins that will have far fewer tourists - but you should visit Mesa Verde if you are in the area. But - - the park is not bike friendly. It's a big climb, narrow, and rangers sometimes tell cyclists to get off the road. But if you get to the park super early - there is less traffic and it is the best time for the tours of the ruins.

http://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisi...nformation.htm

There are two ways to get to Montrose. First, directly over Lizardhead Pass via Tulluride - the Western Express route. Second, via Durango and Silverton over the Molas Pass. Speaking of trains - the old, historic Durango & Silverton steam train runs this scenic route. A number of years ago my friend and I were able to load out bikes (unboxed) on the baggage car and ride up. This might be an option for you, too.

From Silverton you can fly down the Million Dollar Highway to Montrose. Or you can do a little dirt over Engineer Pass to Lake City and then to Gunnison. The Western Express uses US 50 from Montrose to Gunnison - lots of ups and downs and moderate+ traffic. From Gunnison, you can continue on the Western Express to Salida or you can head up thru Almont to Cottonwood Pass Road and Buena Vista - mostly paved, some dirt, but spectacular.

If it were me, I would head north to Leadville, then continue over Fremont Pass to Frisco and Silverthorne. If you run out of time, you can awys pack your bikes at a bike shop here and shuttle to the Denver airport. But better - - continue north to Kremmling - then head east to Granby and take Trail Ridge Road over the top of the world in Rocky Mountain NP. You can end your trip in Estes Park. Box up your bikes at a bike shop there and shuttle to DIA.

PS - If you take the train up to Silverton - then the elevation you gain is a good portion of the elevation difference between Vegas and Estes Park. And if you ride east from Estes Park to Loveland the net elevation difference is zero.

To go a little further for those who don't live out here, June gets hotter as the month goes along throughout the desert west. The temperature from Las Vegas to Cortez isn't really all that different either. You don't start experiencing mountain temperatures until you get around Durango (which can still be quite hot in June). Further, June is a season of intense rain storms. They usually aren't long but they can dump a prodigious amount if water.



It's good to know that County Rd G is paved. I've been out there a long time and couldn't recall if the road was paved or not. Going off the main roads in the western US can be a hit or miss affair.

As for going into Mesa Verde, it's do able but as you said the road isn't all the bicycle friendly. The ruins are 30 miles (one way) from the Park gates. There is a campground in the Park but it is 15 miles from the ruins. It's not a day trip by bicycle and is a rather long day if you have a car.

Just a correction, the Telluride is spelled with an 'e' like the element.

You can contact the Durango Silverton Railroad here about rates and schedules.

Engineer Pass aren't just 'a little dirt'. This is part of the Alpine Loop Scenic road but it is a rugged mountain dirt road. It would be suitable for a mountain bike tour but not a road bike tour. Cottonwood Pass is also rather iffy on the west side for a loaded 'road' bike. You could probably do Cottonwood but it wouldn't be fun.

While going over Trail Ridge is a great ride, I'm not sure that Tobias has the time for that kind of detour.

Also, Estes Park has a mountain equipment shop but I'm not sure it's a full service bicycle shop nor would they necessarily have bike boxes. It sounds like they are more of a rental shop for bikes then a retail shop.

Yep, and Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass are steep - but generally pretty good as far as unpaved roads go in the Rockies since they are used by so many Jeeps and 4-Wheelers. My guess is that there will be people dirving over at least every hour - and one could (read "could") have a kindly Jeep tourer carry your gear to the top of the pass. Anyhoo, the ride out of Silverton up the Animas is very doable until you get to the base of either pass. From the Animas to Lake Fork is about 4 miles on Cinnamon Pass - walked in 2 hours? It saves almost 40 miles going via Montrose. Even walking the bikes over the pass would be faster and the Upper Lake Fork / American Basin country is stunning.

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/gfo/r.../american.html

Cottonwood is not nearly as tough as Engineer or Cinnamon. Again, because it has moderate traffic (moderate by unpaved standards - i.e. a few cars per hour) it is usually hard-packed with clear, gravel-free lines for riding. That is, unless is has been raining/snowing for the previous day or two. Plus, the downhill / east side of Cottonwood is paved so you can fly.

The advantage of riding routes that have short unpaved stretches is that the traffic is significantly lower - an entirely different experience. Of course, they aren't for skinny tires, but doable on cross tires. I did a lot of dirt on my touring bike with 27 x 1 3/8s before I got my mountain tourer.

And as for Estes Park - they can always head down to Loveland - tailwind and downhill thru Big Thompson Canyon. Yes the traffic can be iffy, but they will have speed on their side - my guess cruising at 25 mph (40 kph). It's 2600 ft of elevation drop in 26 miles.

I think it's very possible to do in three weeks.
Week 1 - St. George to Hanksville
Week 2 - Hanksville to Lake City (using train)
Week 3 - Lake City to Estes Park

For both Las Vegas and Denver, it's easier taking a shuttle from a smaller outlying community than trying to ride straight to the airport - - yeah, Pena Boulevard has shoulders, but I wouldn't want to ride it if I could avoid it.

Walking 2 hours (probably more) and riding a loaded skinny tire touring bike on a rough mountain road (not smooth at all even given the traffic) isn't the best way to save 40 miles of riding, especially if that 40 miles saved takes you much more time than riding those 40 miles on pavement. In June, you are also likely to run across some snow on the road that high in that area. Plus why save 40 miles while adding almost 200 to the total trip?

There are also disadvantages to riding unpaved roads. One is that they can be highly variable in surface quality so walking is more likely which is never fun for any great distances. They can be very wet, especially high which makes going harder and the riding even slower. Or they can be dry and very dusty. In the Colorado Rockies they can be both dry and dust and they can be wet and sloppy...often in a very short distance. Depending on the time of year, you could also end up trying to cross significant amounts of snow pack or you could end up taking a long ride up a road only to find that the route is impassable and you still have to ride the 40 miles plus the distance back to where you started.

Remember that Tobias also wants to take time to see the sights. An overly ambitious ride schedule could mean that they have to rush to get the ride done instead of seeing what they want to see. Riding isn't always the reason people bicycle tour. I feel that it would be better for Tobias to see the sights instead of making sure he hits the heights.

Don't get me wrong, the trip you lay out is great (with the above reservation) but it's got a lot of high mountain pass riding for no other reason that I can see other than to do the high mountain passes.

Having driven between Las Vegas and St. George too many times, I would definitely agree with the advice to use an airport shuttle van to cover that stretch, whether you start your trip in Vegas or in Denver. That will give you more time to enjoy the more scenic parts of the trip in Utah and Colorado.

There is a sign posted bicycle route into Denver International Airport, and a number of airport employees bicycle to and from work, but it's not a pleasant ride. There are several airport shuttle services that can take you from Summit County (Frisco/Silverthorne/Breckenridge) to Denver International Airport. There are also two buses a day from Leadville to Frisco and back. PM me or post here if you want to know more about these options.

Greyhound is not a reliable or pleasant way to travel, at least in the western US.

Hy all!

thanks a lot for this load of information.I really will need some time to think about it - but surely come back with some more questions.

What I really would miss is ending in Las Vegas. It would be a really cool finish to ride into Las Vegas and spend two days there to relax after the trip. I would really like that! But I understand that this is not such a good idea maybe becaus of wind and also because of traffic and road into LV. I already once had the wind against me in Arizona - so I know what it is like and remember now!

We also really want to do a line-trip not a round-trip and I like the scenery in the region a lot. Denver to LV would lead through the most scenerey and divers region in my opinion - starting in the mountains through canyons and finally the desert ...

So I will think about with my wife and come back here with more questions. Thanks again - and I hope I will meet some of you on the trip in 2012!

yours Tobias

I understand your ideas for direction and end point. I'd suggest you look at doing a modified route that combines Adventure Cycle's Great Parks section 6 with a modification starting from Denver, Great Parks section 7 and the Western Express section 3. I'd suggest doing a couple of days layover in Durango and renting a car to see some extra sites and/or ride the Durango/Silverton Railroad. Durango is somewhat centrally located so that you could see some of the places that would be off-route.

I can help with getting through Denver and over to connect with the Great Parks route.