nun

Before I toured on a Rivendell Rambouillet with the same luggage arrangement. I ran 28mm tires front and rear and had a gear range from 21" to 103". The Ram is a very comfortable bike and great for all day riding and the geometry makes for a very stable ride.

The Cervelo definitely has more "snap" than the RAM and feels faster. The handling is a bit more sensitive than the Ram, but not worryingly so and I've set the riding position to be very similar to my Ram with only a little saddle to handlebar drop. My Ram and the RS are both size 56cm. The bike shop I bough the RS from wanted to put me on a 54cm, but I like to size up so that I don't feel cramped. The Cervelo is very comfortable on the road and I think that's due to the design of the rear and it goes up hills nicely. I plan to run 25mm front and 28mm rear tires on the RS and the current gearing is 36" to 112". I will probably reduce that a bit by using a 12-36 cassette with the new wheel I'm getting which will probably be something like Velocity A23 or HED C2 with White Industries road hubs.

Rowan

People have been riding randonnees up to and over 1200km on CF bikes for years with weights on board exceeding that of nun's. I have heard of very few problems with frames. A huge number of these "delicate" CF frames are shipped around the world to participate in these events... I've read of damage on steel and aluminium frames, but not on CF frames.

My own CF bike has done lots of miles and has various dings, which are only on the outer epoxy and not through to the CF. I've run handlebar bags on CF bars, and a modular Topeak bag and rack off the back of my CF bike. I might not tour with CF bars or seatpost or wheels (although the tandem has CF bars and we've done multiple centuries on it with handlebar bag in place), but the frame would be the least of my worries.

Personally, I think the naysayers' doubts are overstated (they do become monotonous and few, if an,y have posted examples to back their claims of CF fragility). Most forget that MTBs in CF get a tough workout, and then there are the cyclocross bikes. And if CF was that weak, we'd be hearing about broken forks every week.

I think aluminium went through the same "asplosion" hypotheticals back in the day.

I am no lightweight, and I've owned steel, aluminium, and CF, and so far one of the steelies is the only one to have broken (right rear dropout snapped in half after the bike was blown over in a gust).

Wheels and tyres are a different issue, but that applies to all bikes, CF or not. Machka and I have toured on 23C tyres for quite a while, and we don't over-inflate them, so we have a reasonably comfortable ride on typical sealed surfaces.

Comfort also is something that can be translated between bikes. There is no reason why the Cervelo should not be as comfortable as the Rivs if the dimensions between nun's contact points are similar or identical. And the seat is comfortable.

I hope you enjoy your touring on the Cervelo, nun.

staehpj1

Nice Post Rowan.

nun

Seeing so many CF bikes used in randonnees convinced me that they would be good for touring too. The geometry is far more important than the material, so I chose a relaxed geometry CF bike

djb

And one suspects that cf frame costs will come down more and more with time, with a tiagra or 105 level bike that I would be happy with, becoming more and more affordable.

nun

The RS cost $2600 which I think was a great deal. The components aren't top of the line, but they work well and I'll be swapping a few out over time. I think the RS is good value for money given it's versatility and a good first CF bike. I took it out for a 50 mile loop today and it's definitely more fun climbing than any of my steel bikes. When I get out of the saddle it feels like there's more acceleration than with my steel bikes. The 50t chain ring is a bit big for my riding style. I'll ride it until it's worn out then change it for a 48 or 46.

positron

I like it.

Whats the total weight as pictured?

whats the total weight of the same setup on the rambo?

write_barrier

I have done several 1-2 week credit card tours, on good pavement, on my best bike, riding town-to-town on my Cervelo R3 with a Tubus Carry (Ti) rear rack, on which I mount two Ortlieb front roller plus panniers (25L) with about 8-10 kg of gear total. The gear includes street clothes and light shoes, bike clothes, rain gear, electronics, tools, snacks.

The Carry carries the weight on a special rear axle skewer, and is secured by a flange attached to the rear brake mount. Nothing is directly mounted to or clamped upon carbon. With the small panniers I have no problems with heel strike.

I have used 36 spoke wheels with Record hubs and DT Swiss RR585 rims. Zero problems there.

If it is raining but not a deluge, I use a homemade fender attached to the rack, and don Gore waterproof overshoes because I have no fenders in front.

More recently I also use a handlebar bag to add quick-access storage/volume, and to counter the tendency of the loaded bike to tip backwards if you lift the weight a bit off the front wheels.

I know it's a silly way to tour, it's not for everyone, and if something breaks the tour may be over. But when I get to my destination, I unload the cargo and have a fantastic bike to enjoy. It does also require finding places to stay that will let you keep your bike in your room or securly stored off the street. I would not feel comfortable leaving the bike out at night. Whenevery I stop en route I lock it up and watch it like a hawk.

Sometimes I fly to my tour starting point wtih a Pika Packworks case. Now I'm really asking for trouble -- flying a carbon fiber bike in a soft sided case. But it is quick to pack and reassemble, light to carry via shoulder strap, straightforward to maneuver on a bus or taxi, often flies with no surcharge, and easy to find hotels able to store it for a week or two, until I return, repack, and fly home. So far no travel damage in >10 flight segments.

antokelly

say nun are you sure about this set up personally i would not trust it, those frame are made soley for racing. i reckon your putting way to much stress and weight on that beauty.using 28 on the rear wont help if god forbid you put the out a couple on mill Your walking not enough clearence on the stayes.
but listen i'm probable been just to careful if it works fair play to you for at least giving it a go but if your left on your ass in the middle of the road (Frame failure) you have been warned.

Cheyou

I would use the same case . CF is not a problem . CF is a great choice for ultra light or light touring . And it is repairable . Nun has a system that works for him . Easy to carry at the airport to or up stairs at what 40 lbs total .

Thom

staehpj1

I think the fragility of CF frames is greatly exaggerated. I figure some other type of failure is more likely than frame failure.

Clearance with 28mm tires might be tighter than I would be happy with though. I tend to prefer some extra clearance in case I have wheel or tire problems. It is much easier to ride with a out of true wheel or a tire with a bulge on the side if you have enough clearance to allow some wobble without rubbing. I find 25mm tires adequate and prefer them for that reason unless your bike has more clearance than many racing style frames do. All personal preference though.

nun

Rambo setup is between 50 and 45lbs.....The Cervelo saves my 6 lbs and I'm making a few equipment tweaks to get me solidly under 40lbs.

staehpj1

Very nice setup.

nun

The best thing about my setup is it is entirely non-bike specific, although I do have to include my saddle in the setup. I can put it on any bike and in the future I'll see how it works on a folder too.

nmgirard

Not to cut your thread nun, but I was considering riding my CF Felt Z6 with 105s. Is this going to be an issue....I guess I have to pack light or get a new ride?

staehpj1

Pack light or if that doesn't suit you maybe use a trailer. Quite a few folks pull trailers with CF road bikes.

sstorkel

Or do what I did: buy a $100 touring frame from Nashbar and move your existing components over to it. It's a cheap way to try touring without having to worry that your carbon frame is going to get stolen...

nun

That would work. However I want to emphasize that I am not advocating touring on any CF framed bike, just ones that have a workable geometry. There's nothing to stop you touring on a track bike, but I wouldn't be comfortable on it. So I chose the RS because it is a CF bike that has a relaxed geometry and a slightly longer wheelbase than most CF bikes an it can take a 28mm tire on the back.

staehpj1

I find that "workable geometry" is a relative thing. I was very happy with my 1990 Cannondale Criterium bike on a recent 2400 mile tour. I found it quite enjoyable to ride. The 23mm tires I started with were pretty harsh on some of the rougher surfaces, but not impossible and the ride was greatly improved when I replaced them with 25mm ones after the rear one was worn out. I figure that a CF bike with similar geometry would have an even nicer ride.

huhman

Let us know how everything went when the tour is done! I admit I'm a newb to cycling in general but I'm amazed by all the detractors and "bike philosphers" that seem to pop up all over this forum. What harm is there in trying something new? If anything nun will be able to tell us if this type of set up is a success or not and we can all learn from the experience. Any way I've been reading through nun's posts and I'm eager to try out his methods on a steel frame not really meant for touring. Thanks for all the great info!

Bacciagalupe

You mean, people with experience, an understanding of bike geometry, and knowledge of bike attributes, who share their opinions? Isn't it the goal to learn from people with this type of knowledge?


It's not about "harm," it's more about optimization and using the right tool for the job.

Again, IMO the CF frame won't spontaneously shatter the second you put a bag on it. However, if it isn't done right, you can in fact damage a CF frame. E.g. if you use p-clamps to attach a rack to CF seatstays, and torque it too tight, you can crack the seatstay. I'm confident nun knows not to do this, but a novice tourer who wants to use a CF bike might not. (Nun is also saying this particular CF bike has many aspects which are suitable for touring, but I'm not all that convinced.)

It's like eating a steak with a spoon. It won't kill you, but it might not work as well as you'd like.


In which case, you're might run into the kinds of issues we're discussing, depending of course on the nature of the frame and components.

tcs

Thanks for a laugh to get my day started.

djb

Yes that was quite a gem wasn't it. To a logging truck going at 100 kph, between passing a tourer going at 20kph and a cf roadie going 30kph represents a massive, I mean massive speed differential. Soooooooo much more dangerous for the tourer if trucker tom has driven for 23 hours straight...

huhman

I guess you have a point there bacc but when i read about people weighihng close to 250lbs on these things I really wonder if fifteen pounds placed under a seat can really harm the frame. I would think that crashing is the potential problem but then again I'm no expert.

pacificcyclist

Don't you think there weren't a lot of detractors then when Columbus and the wright brothers made their attempts to make history? Do you think there would be a United States of America or Canada if these explorer didn't risk their lives to find out? Or if the Wright brothers didn't attempt first flight? There wouldn't be United Airlines, WestJet or Air Canada nor would we ever see the stars and stripes or the maple leaf flying high.

I admire people who do try and whether they succeed or not will change conventional thinking. Part of the fear is that carbon is not a proven material and a lot of education about its weaknesses were given by luddites in the bike industry. Just go into bike shows and you'll see references made to CF about its weakness, danger etc with depiction of graphical grossness which is, to instill great fear among unsophisticated consumers and sway them into the steel for real movement. This steal for real movement had somewhat succeeded in its quest to rid aluminum touring bikes off the shelves that very few companies these days make any effort to make touring bikes out of anything aluminum. Carbon bikes used on tours are not a phenomenon; rather is a gradual progress and graduation of a cycle tourist. This graduation mirrors backpackers and hikers a like too! Usually, people who tour light packed quite a number of riding miles and touring experiences already. They know that "WEIGHT" is their number 1 enemy, so they pack light. Their equipment had been upgraded and updated naturally over the years with lighter weight gear and it's quite natural then they would consider to go towards CF as the means to shave off more weight.

I have just started touring with CF for a few years now and at first, I was a bit apprehensive and fearful because my peers had by far injected most of that fear towards me and my previous experiences were with real touring bikes only, so the fears were justified. I'm sure Christopher Columbus or the Wright Brothers had received the same amount of fear and rejections and had their own fears too -- can we succeed? But you have to try it, otherwise how would you know that it does not work? People died in the space program, the Apollo program and the shuttle program. But that did not stop them to make further progress. I tried it and while it did not succeed that well, it worked as a tourer after gradual tinkering. My best experience thus far is with a load to never exceeded 25lbs (20lbs rear and 5lbs up front) and the bike handled actually quite well still. As far as the bike is concerned, it's seeing a 175 lbs rider. I would worry if you're a clydesdale, but most people get fit really fast if you start riding often right? I still use my Dahon folder to tour conventionally as it is an AL frame, have big fat tires and tows a trailer, but for 1 to 2 week motel and summer light camping trips, the CF bike is my preferred choice. Nowadays, I get comments from my fellow tourers that it's unfair I'm so much faster and climb hills so much easier. Well yeah, cause my bike is lighter and wheels are lighter as well!

Is the CF bike right for everyone? Of course not, but you wouldn't know until you try. Try it on a short trip like visiting your parents with a bike and or your friends and do an overnight to check the feasibility. Once you get it right, then try it on a 1 week tour and then gradually build up your confidence and self-esteem. When you decide touring is something you like doing, you'll know what bike to get to supplement your CF bike.