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700c tires for: rider=145lbs; bike=24lbs; gear~30lbs ????

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700c tires for: rider=145lbs; bike=24lbs; gear~30lbs ????

Old 06-17-12, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by loubikes
Well, I thought I'd like to use slicks since they are suppose to be faster on pavement. (Right?) I plan to tour on pavement and I commute through the city, so I was thinking slicks would be the best choice.
For touring you aren't going to be riding fast but it's still worth it to have a pavement tire for riding on pavement. No need to ride on squishy knobbed tires when you aren't riding on soft dirt. I'd suggest putting a more durable tire on the rear since it gets the most wear and a nice riding tire for the front. When I was your size I toured 800miles with a 1 1/8"(28mm) handmade cotton Italian front tire that weighed about 300grams and a beefy 1 1/4"(32mm) Schwinn Le Tour tire that must have weighed close to 500 grams. I rode through some gravely roads and lots of pavement with that. I'm too heavy for that kind of front tire but it made for a nice ride. For commuting I rode on 28mm training tires.
In your case unloaded commuting I'd go for whatever durable 28mm (conti gatorskin, Ruffy Tuffy,T-serv, whatever) tire hits your fancy and for touring consider a 32mm rear tire. Fast commuting and touring with 20lbs on the back aren't the same thing. If you want fast rolling for commuting don't get thick rubber guard tires like the Schwalbe Plus series. For touring you won't lose anything with a 32mm tire, the windage of panniers will have more effect on speed and weight will have more effect on uphill speed than the difference between 28mm and 32mm.
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Old 06-17-12, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by loubikes
I also should have noted that I commute to work via bike, often with little-to-no weight and I like to feel speedy when going through the city. So, maybe 28 slicks (knobbage-less for the lay reader) would work all the way around? Are pinch-flats going to be a major concern as ClemY noted? Thanks to all for the advice.
T-servs are a nice riding fast tire with decent puncture resistance. Not the longest lasting but fit your description. Supremes are stupid expensive but more durable. I bet Ruffy Tuffys would be a good tire in the middle. Like Doug64 said any nice riding characteristics are lost once loaded down. If you're touring with panniers you aren't going fast so toss that criteria. If you want one set of tires for touring and commuting go for a tough rear tire.
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Old 06-17-12, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
Don't get narrower tires! Narrow tires has a higher resistance than wider tires and this had been proven scientifically and by Jan Heine. He was also instrumental in convincing the pro racing community to switch from narrow 20c tires now to 25c and running them with lower pressure!! But wider tires are not the secret weapon. Wider tires with supple casings is the ticket to rolling faster and having less puncture thanks to lower tire pressure due to the pneumatic effect -- enveloping the debris rather than hitting dead on.
Does anyone else have a response/reaction to this? This seems to fly in the face of what I have been reading. A 35 slick will be just as fast as the 28 slick I was looking at?
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Old 06-17-12, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by loubikes
Does anyone else have a response/reaction to this? This seems to fly in the face of what I have been reading. A 35 slick will be just as fast as the 28 slick I was looking at?
I tend to agree with pacificcyclist, but there is a caveat: not just any slick tire, but the right slick tire. In 700c it is much easier to find a good, fast tire than in 26”, but all fast means here is low drag that won’t tire you out excessively on a long ride on a hot day. I am using 700x37c Conti Sport Contact and Vittoria Randonneur Hyper tires, but at your lighter weight 700x32c is probably enough. I have timed myself around a couple of courses I use for timetrialing and recorded the data. It is interesting for me to look at it. It tells me some tires are good for what I want, and some are really bad. You could do your own testing if you feel like it. I am an engineer and we tend to do these kinds of silly things.
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Old 06-17-12, 12:11 PM
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Another vote of confidence for 28c's, in particular Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons. They're reasonably fast, robust and comfortable. But not cheap.

It may also be my imagination, but it seems like my bikes get a little more comfortable when loaded. My current theory is that the additional weight dampens more vibrations, because there's more mass that would need to get lifted.

That said, I'm sure you'd be just fine with slick 32's.


Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
Don't get narrower tires! Narrow tires has a higher resistance than wider tires and this had been proven scientifically and by Jan Heine. He was also instrumental in convincing the pro racing community to switch from narrow 20c tires now to 25c and running them with lower pressure!
Uh, yeah, sorta not. I think he was just another voice in the chorus, and one that pro racers almost certainly ignored. The pros are listening to wheel and tire manufacturers, who are producing lots of evidence to convince reluctant and tradition-prone racers.

And my guess is that for a loaded tourist, comfort and personal preferences are more important than rolling resistance.

IMO you just have to experiment a little bit and see what works for you, but you probably won't go wrong with either 28's or 32s.
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Old 06-17-12, 01:40 PM
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Ok, I did get a new bike (new/used) for this tour/trip (bianchi volpe) but I will still be using it primarily for daily commuting so I think I'll shop for 28 slicks since it sounds like plenty of people have done lots of successful touring on them and because I feel like they would be faster for commuting and they would at least look faster

Forums are such an interesting and wonderful addition/extension of the communities we are a part during our life.

Thanks for the advice/suggestions/shared-experiences.
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Old 06-17-12, 02:17 PM
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"The tires, wheels and pressures of Paris-Roubaix" Velo News, April 10,2012
Good article about tire sizes for one of the toughest races.
https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...running_212925

https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...g-tires_210962
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Old 06-17-12, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by loubikes
Ok, I did get a new bike (new/used) for this tour/trip (bianchi volpe) but I will still be using it primarily for daily commuting so I think I'll shop for 28 slicks since it sounds like plenty of people have done lots of successful touring on them and because I feel like they would be faster for commuting and they would at least look faster

Forums are such an interesting and wonderful addition/extension of the communities we are a part during our life.

Thanks for the advice/suggestions/shared-experiences.
Excellent choice and hopefully you'll like it.

Here's a few facts.. Modern tires have very minimal rolling resistance when inflated at the correct tire pressure. Air resistance becomes the main factor in riding resistance when the speed increases over 20km/h. Speeds under 16km/h is where the rolling resistance becomes a concerning factor and is the speeds touring cyclists usually average out. There is no wrong choice. It's a preference thing. There are people out there who criticize expensive Marathon Supremes are a waste of money and yet they had never tried touring on it. Same with the Big Apples. That's their choice to make. Tire technology marches on like bike technology too and the latest modern fat tire roll just as good as narrower tire, but provide one thing the narrower tire can not. More comfort with minimal performance loss! If this is a decade or 2 ago, I would recommend 28 to 32c. Today is 2012 and there are better choices of good slicks.
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Old 06-18-12, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
Excellent choice and hopefully you'll like it.

Here's a few facts.. Modern tires have very minimal rolling resistance when inflated at the correct tire pressure. Air resistance becomes the main factor in riding resistance when the speed increases over 20km/h. Speeds under 16km/h is where the rolling resistance becomes a concerning factor and is the speeds touring cyclists usually average out.
So unless a person is riding stripped down, no panniers, no fenders and in an aerodynamic position tire size is somewhat irrelevant.
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Old 06-27-12, 10:50 AM
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Truly I am a leaf in the wind.

I went to the grocery store and saw some slick 32c's on a bike and thought they 'looked' good on the bike. It's hard for me to wrap my head around but since they are essentially as fast as narrow tires (and I'm a newb and cannot discern small differences) and will provide extra comfort on the road, I went ahead and purchased Conti Gatorskins 32c.

I'll let you know how they turn out. Thanks again for the input.
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Old 07-18-12, 09:19 PM
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Wow. Just an update for anyone else considering a similar switch:

Wow is all I can say. The 32 slicks feel much faster and more responsive than the tires my previous tires, with substantial tread. I can't imagine that thinner tires would feel or be much/any faster.

The best way I can describe it is if you have ever sat down to use a computer and the mouse moves really slowly and then you change the preferences to a faster tracking. It just feels so much better.

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 07-18-12, 10:18 PM
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Well you obviously have made the right choice. But it would have been my recommendation also. I like slicks on my touring bike, and run them even on sand trails, just lower the pressure. Even though when touring there is a lot of weight on the bike, I like light wheels and low rolling resistance. I like the Schwalbe marathon slicks on both 700C and 26. They no longer make that tire, I think, but some are still out there, and they have a very similar replacement.
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Old 07-18-12, 10:24 PM
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Glad you are happy with the feel of slicks, enjoy riding on them.
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Old 07-19-12, 09:03 AM
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We run 25c on our tandem weighing ~350 lbs. for sport riding. For touring, we run 28c, weighing about 390 lbs. The only downside to tires like this is they're no good on soft gravel. Fine on hard dirt, etc. We like Conti 4000s, Schwalbe Durano, Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, and Vittoria Rubino Pro Tech. For pavement, treadless tires are best. The less tread the better, including in the wet.

There is no data to support the view that wider, softer tires are faster, including that provided by tire salesman Jan Heine. He did prove that thinner tires are faster, but we knew that. There is also no data to support the view that softer tires are faster on rough roads. All data supports the view that more pressure is faster on both smooth and rough roads.

We easily outcoast other, heavier, tandems running heavier tires. The only bikes that can stay with us run the same tires we run. It makes a huge difference. The tandem that holds the record for the Seattle-Spokane race runs 23c at 140 lbs. and they are not tiny people.
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Old 07-19-12, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
Speeds under 16km/h is where the rolling resistance becomes a concerning factor and is the speeds touring cyclists usually average out.
I agree with some of your points here, bit I have my doubts about how true part I quoted is and how relevant average speed is anyway.

I suspect that if you only count time while actually riding a good percentage of tourists average well above that. Also even those who don't probably still spend a good bit of time above those speeds. On flat ground without a headwind I doubt that many tourists are typically doing 16kph or less and I would bet that quite a few do 20kph or more in those conditions. I know that I am a 61 year old guy who is not in especially great shape and I find that I am often rolling along at 25 kpm on the flats despite the fact that my average speed is much less.
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Old 07-19-12, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
I did find the 23mm gatorskins to have a really annoying buzz when on chip seal, that was much improved with the 25mm ones. Obviously it was even less of an issue with the 28's and would be less so yet with 32's.
I rode around NZ South Island this winter on 28mm Gator Hardshells (basically Gatorskins with additional sidewall protection). 100% Chip Seal... I quickly reduced pressure from 120 psi to 100 psi which made a big difference, though if doing the same roads again I might well go with 32mm tires. On asphalt 28mm works fine for me (150 lbs).
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Old 07-19-12, 11:27 AM
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loubikes, Probably the great majority of tourers w/700C wheelsets use tires in the 28 to 32 mm size. I don't see how you could go wrong with your choice.

It's my opinion that while the larger the tire, the more it weighs, it really isn't a bad thing when taken in perspective. Touring riders, me anyway, are a bit like a locomotive and run at a certain speed for miles on end. The rotational weight may even help in sustained cruising, YMMV.

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Old 07-19-12, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
With tires, just go for the best and I mean with Schawlbe wide tires.
This. Run the widest Marathons your bike will fit and you'll never, ever think about touring tires again. I've had 40mm Marathon Supremes on my touring bike for 2 years. Never had a flat. 1,000s of miles left in them.

I have the Marathon Extreme in the rear of my trail bike. A great option if you do plan on spending a lot of time on logging/fire roads. The tread makes all the difference on loose, gravely ascents.
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Old 07-19-12, 01:06 PM
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I do in fact have the WTB Allterrainasaurus.
got a 32 wide set..

Tread blocks move a bit on those, adding to rolling resistance,
but if you are not in a hurry..
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Old 07-19-12, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
There is also no data to support the view that softer tires are faster on rough roads. All data supports the view that more pressure is faster on both smooth and rough roads.
I agree with your other points, but this one I really disagree. From my personal experience, bringing down pressures on rough roads makes a big diff in being beat up less by your bike, hence you are less tired, sore, and have more energy during a long ride. Im not the only rider to have noticed this and felt the diff, and even if the speed diff is slighter higher on rough roads (not sure it is in any case) this would be negated by being beat up more all day.

again, Im come to this conclusion on my own, with experimenting with my 28 slicks at diff pressures for diff road conditions.
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Old 07-19-12, 09:17 PM
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I would be surprised if the great majority of tourists are split between 32 and 28, I would say 32 and 35, for one thing how common is it to find 28 on touring bike specs? I'm asking, not saying.

I was also skeptical of the idea of running narrower tires on the front, as mentioned in some posts. And interestingly they run fatter tires on the Paris Roubaix. That is a rough race, but I wouldn't be surprised if my ability to take punishment is as bad on a lot of chipseal roads or worse. How fast a bike can roll is not as important as how fast I can keep rolling it, and that depends on comfort. Comfort has to be intelligently reasoned, not a comfort bike kind of thing, but the human being still has to be taken into account.
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Old 07-23-12, 08:17 AM
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I'm using 700c-x-32 Marathon Plus tires on my Surly Disc Trucker. Bike, with racks and tires on weighs about 34lbs (hefty). I've ridden it all summer and have recently started riding it with the Panniers attached, with gear in it for weight. I find it actually handles much better with the panniers on the back. I went with the Schwalbe tires because my Tour in Aug/September will take me on questionable roads (in Ireland mainly and also in Wales) so gives me greater protection and versatility. The tires certainly add some weight, but I'd rather avoid as many punctures as I can.
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Old 07-23-12, 08:43 AM
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I was thinking of going back to Ireland. My recollection of the roads is that they were pretty good, though back when I was there all the time, they were a nation of litterbugs, and they may have tossed the glass around, a fair bit. I was driving between climbing sites, not worrying about bike tires. So what exactly is it you are expecting.
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