Touring, Gearing for Loaded vs. Unloaded (9-Speed)
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Touring, Gearing for Loaded vs. Unloaded (9-Speed)
Hi everyone,
I know there are lots of discussions out there concerning gearing for loaded touring. I don't want to repeat what's already been said, so I'd like to approach the topic from a different perspective and perhaps get some helpful suggestions.
Here is my situation: I do a few sporadic, loaded tours each season, for which relatively low-gearing is needed. However, I also want to use the bike for unloaded recreational riding during the balance of the year. For this I want much higher gearing. Therefore I need an easy, elegant(=no duct tape!) way to convert the drivetrain back-and-forth between low- and high-gearing, as needed.
For loaded touring, combining a 24/36/48T triple with either an 11-32T or 12-34T cassette would produce a low-end of below 20 gear inches, which is low enough for what I need. But for unloaded recreation riding, I would prefer a low-end of about 25 gear inches, which could be achieved by swapping the inner and middle rings to create a 32/40/48T. Simple conversion, right?
Here's where I ask for your kind suggestions:
Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Where can I find a reasonably priced 32T inner and a ramped & pinned 40T middle? Is there something in the $25 to $35 range?
Would it make better sense to opt for a double crankset instead of a triple? If so, what type is available in 9-speed?
Thanks in advance for reading. Looking forward to replies!
C4G
I know there are lots of discussions out there concerning gearing for loaded touring. I don't want to repeat what's already been said, so I'd like to approach the topic from a different perspective and perhaps get some helpful suggestions.
Here is my situation: I do a few sporadic, loaded tours each season, for which relatively low-gearing is needed. However, I also want to use the bike for unloaded recreational riding during the balance of the year. For this I want much higher gearing. Therefore I need an easy, elegant(=no duct tape!) way to convert the drivetrain back-and-forth between low- and high-gearing, as needed.
For loaded touring, combining a 24/36/48T triple with either an 11-32T or 12-34T cassette would produce a low-end of below 20 gear inches, which is low enough for what I need. But for unloaded recreation riding, I would prefer a low-end of about 25 gear inches, which could be achieved by swapping the inner and middle rings to create a 32/40/48T. Simple conversion, right?
Here's where I ask for your kind suggestions:
Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Where can I find a reasonably priced 32T inner and a ramped & pinned 40T middle? Is there something in the $25 to $35 range?
Would it make better sense to opt for a double crankset instead of a triple? If so, what type is available in 9-speed?
Thanks in advance for reading. Looking forward to replies!
C4G
Last edited by Cheers4Gears; 06-13-12 at 07:47 AM.
#2
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Making this change is not as easy is it might first appear. The front derailleur would have to be repositioned whenever you change out the middle chainring. This is not difficult, but it is a consideration. Also, the shifting quality of the front chainrings will suffer. The parallelogram is designed for a certain ramp or arc. It is designed to follow the standard chainrings provided by Shimano. The new set-ups will not match that arc.
I would just change the rear cassette to a 11-23 when not touring and use the MTB cassettes when touring.
I run a Shimano MTB 48-36 & 22t crankset with a 12-27 when not touring and a 11-32 when touring. I like the tighter spacing of the 12-27 while on fitness rides and I stay in the 36 and 48t chainrings unless I come across a 10% or greater hill.
I would just change the rear cassette to a 11-23 when not touring and use the MTB cassettes when touring.
I run a Shimano MTB 48-36 & 22t crankset with a 12-27 when not touring and a 11-32 when touring. I like the tighter spacing of the 12-27 while on fitness rides and I stay in the 36 and 48t chainrings unless I come across a 10% or greater hill.
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#3
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I too would just swap the cassette and not bother with the rings. That said I never found a need to move the FD unless changing the size of the big ring.
Edit: To be clear... I too would probably ride it as is for both touring and around town, but if you must do something the cassette would be what I would be inclined to swap.
Edit: To be clear... I too would probably ride it as is for both touring and around town, but if you must do something the cassette would be what I would be inclined to swap.
Last edited by staehpj1; 06-13-12 at 09:50 AM.
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Hi everyone,
I know there are lots of discussions out there concerning gearing for loaded touring. I don't want to repeat what's already been said, so I'd like to approach the topic from a different perspective and perhaps get some helpful suggestions.
Here is my situation: I do a few sporadic, loaded tours each season, for which relatively low-gearing is needed. However, I also want to use the bike for unloaded recreational riding during the balance of the year. For this I want much higher gearing. Therefore I need an easy, elegant(=no duct tape!) way to convert the drivetrain back-and-forth between low- and high-gearing, as needed.
For loaded touring, combining a 24/36/48T triple with either an 11-32T or 12-34T cassette would produce a low-end of below 20 gear inches, which is low enough for what I need. But for unloaded recreation riding, I would prefer a low-end of about 25 gear inches, which could be achieved by swapping the inner and middle rings to create a 32/40/48T. Simple conversion, right?
Here's where I ask for your kind suggestions:
Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Where can I find a reasonably priced 32T inner and a ramped & pinned 40T middle? Is there something in the $25 to $35 range?
Would it make better sense to opt for a double crankset instead of a triple? If so, what type is available in 9-speed?
Thanks in advance for reading. Looking forward to replies!
C4G
I know there are lots of discussions out there concerning gearing for loaded touring. I don't want to repeat what's already been said, so I'd like to approach the topic from a different perspective and perhaps get some helpful suggestions.
Here is my situation: I do a few sporadic, loaded tours each season, for which relatively low-gearing is needed. However, I also want to use the bike for unloaded recreational riding during the balance of the year. For this I want much higher gearing. Therefore I need an easy, elegant(=no duct tape!) way to convert the drivetrain back-and-forth between low- and high-gearing, as needed.
For loaded touring, combining a 24/36/48T triple with either an 11-32T or 12-34T cassette would produce a low-end of below 20 gear inches, which is low enough for what I need. But for unloaded recreation riding, I would prefer a low-end of about 25 gear inches, which could be achieved by swapping the inner and middle rings to create a 32/40/48T. Simple conversion, right?
Here's where I ask for your kind suggestions:
Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Where can I find a reasonably priced 32T inner and a ramped & pinned 40T middle? Is there something in the $25 to $35 range?
Would it make better sense to opt for a double crankset instead of a triple? If so, what type is available in 9-speed?
Thanks in advance for reading. Looking forward to replies!
C4G
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Or, just leave it with the wider range touring gearing for your recreational riding. What are you after for your recreational riding? Switching to a narrower range cassette will get you smaller steps between shift points, is that what you are after? In your example of switching chainrings, you aren't upping the high range, just creating smaller steps. So do you really need that or would just keeping the wide range touring gearing work. I could see doing the change if you were spinning out on the 48 chainring, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
#6
Professional Fuss-Budget
I concur that you can just use the bike with the lower gearing for non-loaded riding.
Ignore the granny gear, and just ride in the middle & big ring. I do that all the time. It's definitely the cheapest and easiest solution.
Ignore the granny gear, and just ride in the middle & big ring. I do that all the time. It's definitely the cheapest and easiest solution.
#7
Banned
48/11x26 is a 113" gear what kind of knees do you wish to keep,
pedaling a gear that High?
at 108" the 48/12 is plenty hard to turn.
Aftermarket Retail ramped and pinned 40/42-110 might be hard to find,
in quality alloy, at $25.. new.
ask at the LBS maybe someone crashed and there are dead parts
in the basement.
pedaling a gear that High?
at 108" the 48/12 is plenty hard to turn.
Aftermarket Retail ramped and pinned 40/42-110 might be hard to find,
in quality alloy, at $25.. new.
ask at the LBS maybe someone crashed and there are dead parts
in the basement.
Last edited by fietsbob; 06-13-12 at 09:21 AM.
#8
Senior Member
Agree. 48-11 @ 100rpm = 35mph. Once I hit that speed, regardless of which bike I'm riding, I'm perfectly happy coasting if there aren't any larger gears available. Even if there are, I'll generally soft-pedal rather than trying to go even faster. If you need to go faster, a dedicated race bike might be appropriate...
#9
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absolutely agree on changing stuff at the rear only. Changing chainrings isnt hard, but it still entails taking off the cranks, mucking with the bolts holding on the rings, putting crank back on-I would get tired of doing it, even a few times a year, and it always could result in not tightening something enough and problems that would come with that (expensive if the crank)
changing a cassette is easier, but then, in the end, if you are really into it, a diff wheel and chain would be the easiest route. Although I can see from a cost pt of view, a diff cassette and chain would be the cheapest route and fairly quick to change out.
To put things in perspective, my Tricross has a 50/39/30 and 11-32. I've hummed and hawed about doing something similar, but frankly I just never got around to it and ride it as is. Yes, a tighter cassette would be nice, but my regular rides have steep stuff, so its ok as-is, especially as I can one day have nothing on the bike, then the next have a pannier with 20lbs in it, so I just leave it.
changing a cassette is easier, but then, in the end, if you are really into it, a diff wheel and chain would be the easiest route. Although I can see from a cost pt of view, a diff cassette and chain would be the cheapest route and fairly quick to change out.
To put things in perspective, my Tricross has a 50/39/30 and 11-32. I've hummed and hawed about doing something similar, but frankly I just never got around to it and ride it as is. Yes, a tighter cassette would be nice, but my regular rides have steep stuff, so its ok as-is, especially as I can one day have nothing on the bike, then the next have a pannier with 20lbs in it, so I just leave it.
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I'm confused--you do realize that since you do have gears, you're not limited to smallest/biggest, right? If you want to use a 25 gear inch ratio, don't drop to smallest/biggest, drop to smallest/second or third from the biggest.
You didn't mention anything about the top end, but unless you're really serious about road riding, or riding on dead-flat terrain, 48x11 is a pretty nice gear.
You didn't mention anything about the top end, but unless you're really serious about road riding, or riding on dead-flat terrain, 48x11 is a pretty nice gear.
#11
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First determine the range you want when loaded and the range you want unloaded. It may well be, like others have said, that with a 9 X 3 set up, you can accommodate both ranges without changing the system at all. You simply won't use your top gears when touring or your low gears when not touring.
For my part, I have a very wide range in my rear gearing, thanks to my IGH. It's wide enough that I seldom moved between the two chainrings on my compact double up front. I ended up removing the front derailer entirely. When I load the bike up for a trip, I manually move the chain down to the smaller ring. When I come back, I move it back to the big ring. It's effectively two sets of gearing, one for loaded riding and one for unloaded, but it requires no swapping of chainrings or gear clusters.
With a 9 X 3 set up, I would think you could get a wide enough overall range that you could accomplish the same thing just by staying off the big chainring when touring and staying off the small one when not touring. Just think of it as two, separate, 9 X 2 set ups. You can even play with the limit screws on your front derailer if you want to lock yourself out of the upper/lower ends of range, but that seems like more trouble than it's worth. But then by not having a front derailer on my bike, I find that by locking myself out of my lowest gears when unloaded, I have an easier transition to loaded with lower gears when I do go on a trip.
For my part, I have a very wide range in my rear gearing, thanks to my IGH. It's wide enough that I seldom moved between the two chainrings on my compact double up front. I ended up removing the front derailer entirely. When I load the bike up for a trip, I manually move the chain down to the smaller ring. When I come back, I move it back to the big ring. It's effectively two sets of gearing, one for loaded riding and one for unloaded, but it requires no swapping of chainrings or gear clusters.
With a 9 X 3 set up, I would think you could get a wide enough overall range that you could accomplish the same thing just by staying off the big chainring when touring and staying off the small one when not touring. Just think of it as two, separate, 9 X 2 set ups. You can even play with the limit screws on your front derailer if you want to lock yourself out of the upper/lower ends of range, but that seems like more trouble than it's worth. But then by not having a front derailer on my bike, I find that by locking myself out of my lowest gears when unloaded, I have an easier transition to loaded with lower gears when I do go on a trip.
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Agree. 48-11 @ 100rpm = 35mph. Once I hit that speed, regardless of which bike I'm riding, I'm perfectly happy coasting if there aren't any larger gears available. Even if there are, I'll generally soft-pedal rather than trying to go even faster. If you need to go faster, a dedicated race bike might be appropriate...
Hope this helps.
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At my age, I feel I deserve the gearing I want, without fear of being called a wimp. I like 94/58 cranks because I can set them up with 20-32-42 rings. I now use a 9 spd cluster 12-36. A 95” top gear seems just fine for me. If I am running out of pedaling rpm, I should be coasting anyway. Most of the time I am climbing pretty steep hills in the 32-36 combo, but when it is hot toward the end of the day and I am bonked out, and I am loaded up with too much gear, there is no substitute for the 20-36. When I am not touring and not loaded down, I find the spacing of the gears on the 9 spd cluster close enough and high enough that I don’t feel the need to change anything.
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Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Where can I find a reasonably priced 32T inner and a ramped & pinned 40T middle? Is there something in the $25 to $35 range?
C4G
I'm starting to see those $100 Deore 48-36-26 (104/64) on more bikes. Finding 110 5 bolt middle rings ramped and pinned in certain sizes can be rough unless you spend the $$$ on TA. (Raceface and FSA discontinued production.)
As for changing out the middle rings, I just shift the front rings more unloaded. I try to setup my gears so my favoite 100+ mile gear w/o load is middle down one which means I'll tend to ride in middle-middle loaded -> happy chain line.
My touring bikes setup: 110/74 48-36-24 (700c)and 48-38-24 (26in) with 13-28 on the back. Honestly 48 is a bit big for me on a 700c bike.
If you really want different gearing buy a "go fast" rear wheel with a nice tight race cassette.
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Considering availability of replacement chainrings, what type of crankset should I get? A standard 104/64 mountain triple or a 110/74 touring triple? Is there something in the $150-or-less price range?
Would it make better sense to opt for a double crankset instead of a triple? If so, what type is available in 9-speed?
C4G
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OP, here... Thanks for all the great replies!
Isn't the derailleur set to the big, outer chainring, irrespective of the middle and inner? I'm considering using a road front derailleur such as an IRD.
I've thought about that, but wouldn't I need to buy a road derailleur due to the parallelogram difference?
Yes, I agree. For me, a 28" or 30" gear is the lowest possible gear for standing on the pedals on an unloaded bike. For anything lower, it becomes too tedious to keep the bike upright. So, I walk.
But for loaded touring, over multiple days or weeks, I need a sit-down-and-pedal gear of about 17.6". Or lower, if touring in a mountainous region with long ascents.
I'm not concerned about tight spacing. But I am concerned about even gear inch spacing and recovery shifts between rings. That's why I picked those particular gear combinations (see my original post). My loaded touring set requires 2 recovery shifts for each front shift, whereas my unloaded set only requires 1 recovery shift for each front shift. Perfect!
I'm also concerned about chainline. Consider that the inner chainring lines up between the third and fourth cog of the cassette. That means, the second, third, fourth, and fifth cogs offer the best chainline. For unloaded recreational riding I can stand-and-pedal in those gears without compromising chainline. That's 4-solid gears for standing, before I need to switch chainrings! With a 32T inner ring, my second cog produces about 28.4", which is the lowest I need for standing in any given case. (I can use the first cog to sit-and pedal on lesser inclines.)
For 48/11x26, I calculated 108.5" using Sheldon Brown's calculator. For 48/12x26 I got 99.5. Did I do it wrong?
The 48/12 gearing is more in line with what I want, if the above number is correct. For that matter, a 46/12x26 @ 95.3" would also suit me just fine, but I might need to adjust the middle and inner sizes.
Thanks to everyone!
But for loaded touring, over multiple days or weeks, I need a sit-down-and-pedal gear of about 17.6". Or lower, if touring in a mountainous region with long ascents.
I'm also concerned about chainline. Consider that the inner chainring lines up between the third and fourth cog of the cassette. That means, the second, third, fourth, and fifth cogs offer the best chainline. For unloaded recreational riding I can stand-and-pedal in those gears without compromising chainline. That's 4-solid gears for standing, before I need to switch chainrings! With a 32T inner ring, my second cog produces about 28.4", which is the lowest I need for standing in any given case. (I can use the first cog to sit-and pedal on lesser inclines.)
The 48/12 gearing is more in line with what I want, if the above number is correct. For that matter, a 46/12x26 @ 95.3" would also suit me just fine, but I might need to adjust the middle and inner sizes.
Thanks to everyone!
#17
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Cheers4gears, I just leave my touring gears in place when using the touring bike unloaded. My gear inch range is 20-108 and that is fine for recreational riding.
Brad
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But, unfortunately, my surroundings are very hilly so I need to plan my gearing very carefully. A 20-108 range seems to imply a 26/36/48 combined with an 11-32 cassette. For me, that equates to a mere 2-usable stand-and-pedal gears for the inner chainring -- the fourth and fifth cogs @ 31" and 36", respectively. To go higher I need to double shift (i.e., from inner to middle ring + recovery shift on the cassette). In hilly territory, that's a LOT of double shifting.
Here's an example of what I need. It's from another bike I own. The drivetrain is a 3x6, with perfect gearing for my hilly rides. Great on flats and downhills, too. It looks like this (according to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator):
Code:
28 38 48 14 54.6 74.2 93.7 . . . . 28 27.3 37.1 46.8
Last edited by Cheers4Gears; 06-13-12 at 08:33 PM.
#20
Senior Member
I routinely ride my touring bike, without a load, down hills where speeds of 40-50mph are possible... if you have the right gearing. I don't, but I can hit 35mph pretty easily. Since the OP wants a single, do-it-all bicycle, and specifically mentions unloaded use, I would think that both ends of the gear range are important to him.
#21
Senior Member
Cheers4Gears, My gearing works well for me in the Texas Hill Country also. Seems a cassette swap using a 12-25 9S cassette will get you close to what I think you're looking for. A plus is the closer ratios between the cogs.
Brad
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If I were to live in FlatAsAPancake, Texas then I'd probably opt for a 3-speed Sturmey Archer hub and forget about all this messy derailleur gearing stuff
But, unfortunately, my surroundings are very hilly so I need to plan my gearing very carefully. A 20-108 range seems to imply a 26/36/48 combined with an 11-32 cassette. For me, that equates to a mere 2-usable stand-and-pedal gears for the inner chainring -- the fourth and fifth cogs @ 31" and 36", respectively. To go higher I need to double shift (i.e., from inner to middle ring + recovery shift on the cassette). In hilly territory, that's a LOT of double shifting.
Here's an example of what I need. It's from another bike I own. The drivetrain is a 3x6, with perfect gearing for my hilly rides. Great on flats and downhills, too. It looks like this (according to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator):
I haven't counted teeth on all the intermediate cogs, yet. But these are the low and high points. I'm ALWAYS in the right gear with this setup, with minimum chainring shifts and no cross chaining. I want to approximate it for my 3x9 touring bike.
But, unfortunately, my surroundings are very hilly so I need to plan my gearing very carefully. A 20-108 range seems to imply a 26/36/48 combined with an 11-32 cassette. For me, that equates to a mere 2-usable stand-and-pedal gears for the inner chainring -- the fourth and fifth cogs @ 31" and 36", respectively. To go higher I need to double shift (i.e., from inner to middle ring + recovery shift on the cassette). In hilly territory, that's a LOT of double shifting.
Here's an example of what I need. It's from another bike I own. The drivetrain is a 3x6, with perfect gearing for my hilly rides. Great on flats and downhills, too. It looks like this (according to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator):
Code:
28 38 48 14 54.6 74.2 93.7 . . . . 28 27.3 37.1 46.8
Which is why a compact double on a cross bike with a 10 speed 12-30 can give you an equivalent gearing of a triple road bike 53/39/30 with a 11-26 at the rear to get you that low 30" gear. In fact, the Salsa Fargo uses the new compact MTB double crankset 40T/27T and a 12-36 10 speed to get roughly 20-90" gearing.
Last edited by pacificcyclist; 06-13-12 at 10:27 PM.
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Here is a chart of two drivetrains, one for touring, the other for fitness riding;
The only change is from the 11-32 touring cassette to an 11-23 racing cassette.
The touring gear range is 635% and can be used at higher speeds but can also climb a steep hill with a 40 rpm cadence at 2.2mph. The steps between the gears can require a 16% change in cadence.
The fitness gear range is tighter at 456% and can be used at higher speeds but can also climb a steep hill with a 40 rpm cadence at 3mph. The steps between the gears require only a 8% change in cadence. The middle range can be used at speeds up to 24 mph with tight gear spacing down to 15mph.
The only change is from the 11-32 touring cassette to an 11-23 racing cassette.
The touring gear range is 635% and can be used at higher speeds but can also climb a steep hill with a 40 rpm cadence at 2.2mph. The steps between the gears can require a 16% change in cadence.
The fitness gear range is tighter at 456% and can be used at higher speeds but can also climb a steep hill with a 40 rpm cadence at 3mph. The steps between the gears require only a 8% change in cadence. The middle range can be used at speeds up to 24 mph with tight gear spacing down to 15mph.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-14-12 at 05:10 AM.
#24
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OP, here... Thanks for all the great replies!
Isn't the derailleur set to the big, outer chainring, irrespective of the middle and inner? I'm considering using a road front derailleur such as an IRD.
I've thought about that, but wouldn't I need to buy a road derailleur due to the parallelogram difference?
Thanks to everyone!
Isn't the derailleur set to the big, outer chainring, irrespective of the middle and inner? I'm considering using a road front derailleur such as an IRD.
I've thought about that, but wouldn't I need to buy a road derailleur due to the parallelogram difference?
Thanks to everyone!
Any rear derailleur that shifts an 11-32 correctly will also shift an 11-23.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#25
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Another vote for simplicity here. You have a big range of ratios, we've established that you don't need more at the top end, and there is no disadvantage to having low gears that you don't always use. So if I were you, I'd change nothing. If closer ratios when unloaded is what is required, swap the cassette. Anything more complicated is a waste of time and money.