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Bicycle noob wants to get into touring, a little advice please!

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Bicycle noob wants to get into touring, a little advice please!

Old 06-19-12, 03:00 AM
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LibertarianPrep
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Bicycle noob wants to get into touring, a little advice please!

Hello!

A little background: I've been doing some backpacking for a while now, although nothing "epic" like thru-hikes. Honestly, my back doesn't like the weight, even with some fairly UL gear. I've got all the camping gear necessary, like a good tent, sleeping bag, cookset, clothing, first aid kit, etc.

Pretty much the only thing I don't have is a bicycle, panniers, tools, and cycling knowledge.

Living in France, I want to buy a bicycle from a local shop because that gives me the opportunity to look it over first, and get a proper sizing. Really don't want to order something like that online!

I've been reading up on bikes and other people touring for about a month now.

My plan is to initially do some short tours around France, starting with just a simple overnighter, and progressing to weekend, then week-long trips. I haven't cycled since I was a kid, and although I remember enjoying it, I have no illusions about being completely fit for it (I weigh 68kg, I'm not fat or anything - I just don't have those cycling specific muscles I think - not yet anyway).

I intend to avoid main roads AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I hate the idea of driving alongside cars, and even more so breathing in all their toxic fumes, so I'm going to drive around with a large map and plan as many back-country routes as possible. It's France, so there are plenty of half-decent backroads that only get a few cars on them per hour.

My budget is going to be about €1,000, in which I need to get myself a bicycle, panniers, cycling shoes (don't want to cycle in my leather hiking boots), racks (if not already there), and tools. My other backpacking gear is good from very hot climates to cold Eastern European winters.

Once I have the proper experience of cycling, camping with a bicycle, and being able to do all the repairs necessary, I intend to do trips going into Eastern Europe (with some off-road trails). To that end, the bicycle needs to have some pretty good tires and the correct wheel size. I understand 26" wheels are best?

Anyway, to the point: I've come down to two bicycles. One is somewhat outside of my budget, but I could probably save up for it if this was really necessary. The reason I ask about them is because finding decent reviews of them is almost impossible!

I'm referring to the VSF Fahrradmanufaktur T-100 and T-400

https://www.cyclable.com/velo-trekkin...tur-t-100.html
https://www.cyclable.com/velo-de-voya...-t-400-xt.html

Both have steel frames. The more expensive one has 26" wheels and better tires, but has hydraulic brakes, which I don't want failing on me in the middle of nowhere. The t-100 would also need to be outfitted with a front rack, and maybe have the handlebars replaced for more hand positions?

My questions are:
1. Are these suitable touring bicycles in general?
2. Is the price to quality ratio decent?
3. Are they capable of off-roading when need be, especially to avoid large roads with lots of traffic?
4. Is there anything else I should know about these bikes?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

p.s. Future trips I'm dreaming about involve Iceland, Scotland & the Hebrides, and possibly Scandinavia (Not a huge fan of heat!). I don't want to end up having to buy a second bike a few months in because the first one wasn't up for it.

Last edited by LibertarianPrep; 06-19-12 at 03:01 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 06-19-12, 05:10 AM
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I would be inclined to get the less expensive one because by the time you've ridden a year you'll have developed personal preferences that may not be met by the more expensive one and the extra $ will have made those trips possible. In other words don't let your choice be dictated by the choices in front of you right now, there will be more down the line with time on the road a more valuable expense than a premium bike. Regarding 700 vs 26" far from bike shops that can be accommodated carrying a spare or using heavy duty tires. It sounds like your first year of touring will be near bike shops. Experience is more important than getting a premium bike at this stage. After a year riding your criteria may have nothing to do with cost of the components or bike.
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Old 06-19-12, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
I would be inclined to get the less expensive one because by the time you've ridden a year you'll have developed personal preferences that may not be met by the more expensive one and the extra $ will have made those trips possible. In other words don't let your choice be dictated by the choices in front of you right now, there will be more down the line with time on the road a more valuable expense than a premium bike. Regarding 700 vs 26" far from bike shops that can be accommodated carrying a spare or using heavy duty tires. It sounds like your first year of touring will be near bike shops. Experience is more important than getting a premium bike at this stage. After a year riding your criteria may have nothing to do with cost of the components or bike.
That's a good point. After enough experience, I ought to know myself what I want, and can then customize my own build. Plus, if my bike gets stolen, I won't be as sad if it didn't cost a fortune to buy!

So does the VSF T-100 look like it can handle the job? I'm especially concerned about whether I can go off-road with it.

Cheers!

Last edited by LibertarianPrep; 06-19-12 at 05:25 AM. Reason: grammar!
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Old 06-19-12, 05:31 AM
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Just to back up the idea of getting a bike and riding it before spending a lot of money. My first bike was an MTB based on the fact I wanted to be able to "go anywhere". A little over two years later I was aware that most of my riding was on surfaces that were either paved or at least mostly smooth-ish, gravel, dirt etc, some mudholes but nothing that pushed the MTB anywhere near its limits. Seeking extra speed but still wanting to do light offroad stuff I bought a cross bike, and now hardly ever ride the MTB.

Had I known then what I know now I'd probably have bought a cross bike from the outset, or possibly a hybrid bike with a little bit of front suspension and maybe put drop bars on it. I miss the suspension when I ride the cross bike but seriously miss the speed when I'm on the MTB, it just takes more effort to get it up to speed.

If you spend a lot of money on a bike before you really know what you want you'll have less money to do your tours and find out how well things really work.

One other thing, some folks (not so much in this area but certainly in other areas) will talk as if you absolutely must have top end components. If you're racing it may make a difference (I don't race so can't say) but for touring you can do perfectly well with bottom end parts. A friend of mine tours with Shimano Sora (the entry level shifters etc), my cross bike has Tiagra (one step up) - while the 105s and Ultegras may shift better and faster you can do just fine with the cheaper parts.
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Old 06-19-12, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LibertarianPrep View Post
After enough experience, I ought to know myself what I want, and can then customize my own build.
Or you may find that an inexpensive bike is fine and that you don't need much/any customization.

I did my first tour (Trans America) on a $599 bike (Windsor Touring) and never felt the need to upgrade anything except adding lower gearing. I did a few long tours with it and only started using a different bike because I adopted a minimal style of touring where I felt a road bike was more suitable. That bike is an old 1990-ish road bike and has been customized a bit more, but still not all that much.

The bottom line for me is that Tiagra level components are fine (as Sora probably are as well). 105 or Ultegra level stuff is nice, but not certainly not necessary. Dura Ace or XTR stuff is just overkill, but if you want to indulge yourself and have the money, feel free. The thing is that touring is really not all that much about the bike. As long as it meets minimal standards of suitability, the bike you choose will have little impact on the tour experience that is, and should be, more about the people and places.
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Old 06-19-12, 05:59 AM
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LibertarianPrep, The T-100 looks like it will be fine for most moderate off road usage. In general it looks like a nice tourer inexpensive enough to purchase, equip and ride for a long time into the future.

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Old 06-19-12, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LibertarianPrep View Post

So does the VSF T-100 look like it can handle the job? I'm especially concerned about whether I can go off-road with it.

Cheers!
by "off road" do you mean bad roads or full on trail riding at 10mph? Seems to me getting over your anxiety sharing the road with cars is the issue. Riding on trails, ie. off-road, is a whole other ball game. 622-47mm tires are more than big enough with your weight to handle bad roads and dirt roads. Poorly secured gear and too much weight is as much an issue for going "off road" as it is the bike.

Making sure that racks are attached securely and that you know whether parts are getting loose. I knew a bike racer who kept such shoddy care of his bike he didn't know the bb was tearing itself apart until it happened. Likewise other cyclists who didn't know their pedals were askew/cross-threaded/loose until they came off. I met some cyclists in Spain who bought inexpensive and poorly assembled bikes where one of them didn't have any grease in the bearings and it destroyed itself.

Last edited by LeeG; 06-19-12 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 06-19-12, 06:46 AM
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I mean both bad roads and trail riding, although I don't have to be breaking any speed records when trail riding. I want to do this to have fun, not reach a certain daily mileage, which means I'm quite happy taking more remote, but less travelled roads to get wherever I'm going.

It's not just sharing a road with cars at high speed that scares me, it's the pollution and detachment from nature that I don't want either. I got into backpacking partly because it would bring me closer to the natural landscape, so being on a large road all day isn't my idea of adventure or exploration.

Based on my experience paring down the weight of my backpack, I can get my base gear weight (not including panniers, food, or water) down to under 10-11kg with a year-round clothing system for all weather conditions, so I don't think I'll end up overpacking.

I also hope I won't need to spend a fortune on components. I know from various Ultralight gear forums that some people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars to shave off an ounce or two. I just don't have that kind of money though, and if I did, I'd spend it elsewhere

Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
Making sure that racks are attached securely and that you know whether parts are getting loose. I knew a bike racer who kept such shoddy care of his bike he didn't know the bb was tearing itself apart until it happened. Likewise other cyclists who didn't know their pedals were askew/cross-threaded/loose until they came off. I met some cyclists in Spain who bought inexpensive and poorly assembled bikes where one of them didn't have any grease in the bearings and it destroyed itself.
I'll do my best to keep my bike in good shape, but it will take experience to learn about it. While I like tinkering with stuff (like building PCs), I have no experience with bikes specifically, not yet anyway.

Thanks for all the comments so far!

Last edited by LibertarianPrep; 06-19-12 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:10 AM
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I personally would go with T-100, seems like a very decent bike. With time you may want to change the rear rack to something better, made of steel, apart from that nothing is wrong with it for touring. Make sure the wheels are true and tensioned well, keep track on the drivetrain wear and adjustment, V-brakes aligned properly and that's it.

It's more than adequate for the unpaved roads but you may want to avoid the techiest singletracks.

Must note though that there is a huge crowd of people in my area running hydraulic H33's, so i'd expect they are just fine as well.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:22 AM
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I'm glad you guys think the T-100 is decent, since I really don't have the money for a T-400, and certainly not for all the tools and panniers I'd have to purchase in addition to the bike.

The bike shop is actually over 100km away, so I'm going to wait until the end of the month, when someone will be able to drive me there (I don't have a license yet). I'll keep you guys up to date on my progress. I'm also going for a 30km overnight backpacking trip with my nephew at the end of the month

If anyone else has any input or advice, would really appreciate it!
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Old 06-19-12, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
I would be inclined to get the less expensive one because by the time you've ridden a year you'll have developed personal preferences that may not be met by the more expensive one and the extra $ will have made those trips possible. In other words don't let your choice be dictated by the choices in front of you right now, there will be more down the line with time on the road a more valuable expense than a premium bike. Regarding 700 vs 26" far from bike shops that can be accommodated carrying a spare or using heavy duty tires. It sounds like your first year of touring will be near bike shops. Experience is more important than getting a premium bike at this stage. After a year riding your criteria may have nothing to do with cost of the components or bike.
I agree with this. I started doing bike tours in 2002 using a Raleigh M60 about $500 US. My sons have a Trek 820 and a Diamond back topanga. Both are under $500. Where have these bikes gone? Well we have done 5 major tours a couple of runs from Canada to Mexico. And the boys did an Anchorage to Mexico ride. All on these relatively cheap bike. Next week we are riding from San Francisco to Mexico. All three are set up with racks, road tires and stronger wheels than stock.

Point is the bike doesn't make the tour. We all have talked of getting different bikes but for now we are content to get out on the road on our old stand bys.

Last edited by mntbikedude; 06-19-12 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:46 AM
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If anyone else has any input or advice, would really appreciate it!
Want to go camping cheap? Get the bike, water bottle mounts (at least one of them for the large 1.5 litres plastic bottle), strap your sleeping bag and matress to the handlebar, put your tent on top of the rack, food and clothes (that should be a minumum for the beginning) in your backpack and you're good to go. Keep the backpack light and the trip will be totally enjoyable.

I have no experience with bikes specifically, not yet anyway
I learnt to fix my bike just from looking youtube tutorials. You can find basically everything there. Assembled about five bikes since then, quite proud of some builds even. Now i'm dreaming of actually welding my next rack and oh, a frame some day.

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Old 06-19-12, 08:15 AM
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Fit if First, especially for a bike you're going to be on for hours every day. Once that's settled, low gearing for steep hills is a must.

The lower priced bike will do just fine for general loaded touring.

Good platform pedals and stiff soled walking shoes will get the job done. Add some bar ends for added hand positions.

The bike will handle maintained, unpaved country roads just fine. Single track is another ball game.

You seem to have done your research and have a good plan for getting into the touring life.

Last edited by Cyclebum; 06-19-12 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 06-19-12, 11:30 AM
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VSF makes good bikes for touring. The TX bikes come with more specific touring components, like better quality gears and racks. My wife used a T-400 for several tours and it has proven to be a reliable bike. It was an older type, now replaced by the TX-400, with Deore parts and V-brakes rather than hydraulic brakes.

One thing to consider with VSF is that the montage of the bikes is 'farmed out', to bring down costs. A good shop will have checked the bike to see if everything has been put together properly. You will also need to return to the shop after a few months or so to have the wheels checked, but that goes for many brands, if not all with machine-built wheels.

I think a bike with Alivio components is good enough for touring in France. In fact, my previous bike used lowest-end shimano components and although things sometimes failed, I had few real disasters. However, cheap components need to be replaced more quickly, so you may want to have your bike checked each winter. But if you can spare the money, I'd recommend one of the TX bikes.
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Old 06-19-12, 11:39 AM
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You mentioned having some U/L gear. How light do you plan to pack? Panniers may be unnecessary if you are packing very light. I have been experimenting with various pannier-less options lately with good results so far. Follow the link in my sig line to find an article and some journals of trips where I used various setups. I tried to provide a good bit of detail on the gear choices.

The trip before I started going pannier-less, I went with two cheap (on sale right now for $39.99) Nashbar ATB panniers on the front of the bike and the tent on a rear rack. It was a nice setup. Again there are details in a journal.
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Old 06-19-12, 12:09 PM
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Essentially a rigid fork, hard tail..MTB should be fine ..
lots of people refitted older bikes to a similar configuration,
and rode them all sorts of places..

Tubus Racks are another good Euro investment.
.. but you can move them over to the next bike..
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Old 06-19-12, 02:52 PM
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I don't know the bikes to which you refer, but on a couple of points, I wouldn't go for hydrolic brakes - too much messing, and I've toured across Germany on the Bodensee, Konigsee radweg, a lot of which is off road on really rough track, and the old fashioned steel framed, 700c, road tyred bike I have did well, on all except sandy ground (another tour - Rhine radweg near the Black forest).
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Old 06-21-12, 03:30 AM
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Thanks for the input guys, and staehpj1, that link was very helpful. While I do have some UL gear, I never actually went technically UL (under 10 lbs base weight), it was always just Lightweight, so I think I will need panniers, especially since I think I'll be buying food infrequently at large supermarkets to save on costs, rather than in small town shops. Although when I just start off with shorter trips, I can probably manage without panniers by just tying bulky stuff to the rack.

I have another question: I intend to take a netbook with me for various reasons. Is this feasible? Will it survive? Are there some kind of cases that are extra protective of all the bumps on the road?
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Old 06-21-12, 10:34 AM
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If I took a netbook along, I'd probably put it in a Gimp bag from crumpler, and put that in a waterproof Vaude or Ortlieb. That should be enough in heavy rain and on bumpy roads.

Important digital files you want access to during a trip are best stored on some online service like dropbox.com.
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Old 06-21-12, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LibertarianPrep View Post
I have another question: I intend to take a netbook with me for various reasons. Is this feasible? Will it survive? Are there some kind of cases that are extra protective of all the bumps on the road?
I don't carry one, but if I did I'd just keep it in a ziploc bag, pad it with clothes, and have all of that in either a waterproof pannier or have it weatherproofed in some other way. I have done that with other electronics without incident.
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Old 06-21-12, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I don't carry one, but if I did I'd just keep it in a ziploc bag, pad it with clothes, and have all of that in either a waterproof pannier or have it weatherproofed in some other way. I have done that with other electronics without incident.
Padding with clothes is a good idea, I hadn't thought about that!

If I were to use a one-wheel trailer with a suspension, would the netbook be safer from bumps and knocks on the trailer with the suspension, or on the bike?
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