Yeah, rumble strips are annoying. I posted kinda late at night and forgot that part.

They're not been a gamebreaker, though. Generally where there are rumble strips, I just ride on the road. Vehicles give me plenty of space when possible. rarely, I've had to drag a trailer wheel on the rumble strip, and it wasn't too awful. The trailer arm really does a great job of lessening the jolt. If I'd put on headphones so I could not -hear- the rattling, it probably would have been better. I've been in a few situations where I had to ride with my entire bicycle over a rumble strip (I-70 near Rifle, Co has several miles where the entire shoulder is crossed by periodic rumbles.), and it would have probably felt a lot worse with all my weight on the bike. Of course, it also depends on where you are going. In the west, I rarely had problems. In the midwest, there were a lot of rumble strips, but generally less traffic.

The other concession I've had to make is walking down the sidewalk, rather than riding on the road, in busy downtown areas lacking bike lanes. Even though the trailer isn't all that wide, it looks big, and I've had traffic pile up angrily behind me instead of passing. Usually once I'm away from the downtown area, it opens up a bit and I can get back on the road. The only exception in the last 7200 miles was St. Charles Missouri, where I had to walk along narrow, ill-kept sidewalks for two miles. Yes, I could have found a better route but I was in the mindframe of 'cling to the major through street and you'll get out faster! Don't get lost!'.

I'm planning on using the two wheeled trailer in Mexico, Central, and South America next year. After that, I'll probably have a lot more to say about how it feels to pull it on narrow, busy roads...

I've toured: .1. with a BOB, .2. with a BOB and 2 panniers, .3. with two panniers, and .4. with four panniers. For me, all work well, depending on what I'm doing. I find that we have drifted towards two or four panniers. Initially we had only one set of panniers, but we gradually added set after set of Arkels so now have enough for the two of us and our two kids.

On a solo tour dragging a BOB and a bike and the gear up and down escalators/stairs is a big pain. Storing the bike can be tricky. Now that I 'know' how to pack the panniers, during a tour I soon end up knowing where every item is, so tend to leave everything in the bags and just pick things as I need them. Compartmentalize. Stability is not compromised. I might even save the weight of the actual trailer, though with four panniers, maybe not.

My two cents, anyway.

Buen Camino.

B

I've used three of those four configurations, but I hadn't even considered the trailer and panniers combination. It seems like a solution which would allow for far too much gear, although for a long expedition in a remote part of the world, it could make sense.

For shorter tours and credit card touring, I prefer rear panniers alone. It keeps the load small and compact. Using a trailer, I'll try to keep the load down to what I'd carry in rear panniers.

Right now I am in Australia travelling. After a foot operation the surgeon said to lay-off touring for a year until total internal healing occurs. No big deal as the Nullabore has waited for me for 41 ears and I still have not even flown over it...

I made the decision to try touring with a mini-velo (arvon2) and have decided to stop using the Bob Ibex and carry less "stuff" especially now that I don't do interesting rides where I need more than a day or 2 of water...

My Ibex (in Sydney) is up for sale on bicycles.net.au. If sold, good! If not, I'll bring it back to Canada in August.
Back to touring without the kitchen sink and with only 4 panniers. Next stage?? Why credit card touring and supported (aka more expensive) touring...

Onward... at 64 years and 48 of them an insulin-dependent diabetic :D

A few years ago I used the two panniers for most of my gear and used the BOB to carry an entire suitcase of medical and school supplies which we delivered along our route.

B

I have only toured with two panniers and travel light. One thing I noticed when riding with folks using trailers was [as mentioned often above] the tendency to overload the trailers. It seemed to me that only those who overloaded were the ones with handling problem on and off pavement. Most riders I questioned denied that that was the cause of the handling problems. Any one with trailer experience want to comment on that connection if any exists?

A question for those that use a trailer....do you take extra precautions when running down extra long, steep and winding grades compared to when using only panniers? I've always toured with panniers over both front and back axles as well as extra gear strapped above them, but have always tried to balance the load as evenly as possible. I look forward to, and have the confidence to run down those grades as fast as free-wheeling and the curves will allow, sometimes even passing cars. I have never experienced any wobble or shimmy problems and I have extra large brake pads which allows me to come to a stop reasonably quickly even with my fully loaded rig. The only time I've had an issue was when using really cheap tires which melted and split from the hot rims and being too close to the pads.

I don't personally. I've gone down many a mountain at over 40 and never had any problems. I've never experienced any of the fishtailing and stuff that some of the posters speak of.

Panniers are fine, but I now prefer a trailer.
Main reason is that my bike still rides like an unladen bike, panniers make my bike feel like its changed from a sports car to an RV.
Trailer seems less affected by cross winds.
Trailer is easy to detach at campground, overnight stops.
Cars seem to give me more room on roads than panniers, maybe they think I'm pulling a kid?
Trailer seems easier to pack/unpack.

Wow, great thread.

I am going to give you some perspective from someone just entering the world of touring and how I view the pannier vs trailer question.

First of all, some back ground. I am in my early 50's, a backpacker with all my gear for efficient lightweight travel and someone who is excited about a new hobby.

When looking at gear, I always look at the most cost efficient system that can serve multiple purposes for the dollar invested. As I look at dedicated touring bikes, it is easy to see that an investment of $1300 to $1500 is the norm for a good touring bike. Couple that with another $500 for some Arkel XM series front and rear bags, another $200 for racks, fenders and other misc gear and you quickly are approaching a $2,200 new hobby. Gee, I haven't even made it out of the garage yet. Sure hope the wife doesn't get too upset with me just yet.

On the other hand, I remember why I got interested in this touring thing in the first place. The desire to travel further distances with more creature comforts than what backpacking offered on the Appalachian Trail. I remember my first conversation with three young travelers that had made it to Charlottesville, Va on the Trans Am. Two had come on traditional touring rigs with panniers. The other on a recumbent with a Bob in tow. The two girls in the traditional rigs commented that they always saw traffic give the trailer set up more room on the road (maybe it was the odd bike, the flag that was flying or the impression that the bike /trailer set up appeared larger from a distance).

As someone new to this sport, I am always thinking safety (bumps and bruises take longer to heal at 52 rather than 22). So for me, this trailer set up affords a warm fuzzy as I venture out onto the pavement. In addition, I picked up a good Peugoet bike for $200 and a $100 tab for a tune up and looking at either the Burley Travoy or the Maya trailer for under $350. With the trailer, it allows me the option to use my existing backpack along with a small Action Packer style container to store my gear. Remember the creature comfort thing I mentioned? The container can adequately safeguard my I Pad and other valuables that I may want to lock up and protect from wet weather. It also keeps me from throwing a bear bag line to hang my food when stealth camping. Keep in mind it is often a skunk, rat or opossum that does the most damage while searching for those Pop Tarts or investigating those smelly t-shirts you have not laundered yet.

So the tab for the new tourer using the trailer set up - $750 + safety factor + gear security = easier entry into the world of touring.

Since I have no preconceived idea of what the small nuances are between pulling a trailer and balancing a loaded tourer, I will probably not know what i might be missing doing the traditional pannier set up. Also, it will be several years before I have the experience to take a trip to Europe or South America, so packing a bike and my gear for a plane ride is at least three or four years down the road for me.

Do I want the Surly LHT and the Arkel bags? Sure..., and at some point I will have those things ( it is not a matter of budgetary restraints). But showing myself that touring is a long term enjoyment prospect makes me think prudently about my set up. As a result, the old / new tourer selects the trailer option over the loaded touring rig. A couple more days and the decision will be made between the Travoy and the Maya trailer.

Hope this helps other new tourers in their process of picking their new set up.

This is the first time I've seen the suggestion to use a trailer instead of panniers to save money. In comparison to the cost comparison you gave, here's mine for my current touring rig:
An old Specialized road bike that a friend gave me before he moved to Thailand: $0
Nashbar 'Waterproof Rear Panniers' on sale at: $32
Rear rack also on sale from Nashbar: $10
Total: $42
This setup has served me well for the last few years with several week-long bike tours each year. It also serves well for my weekly grocery and other shopping trips and numerous club rides.

Obviously one can't count on a generous friend providing a free bike, but the 'good Peugeot' you mention with regard to trailer towing could also be used to carry panniers (and that's true whether or not it has the proper eyelets, etc.). And very decent panniers and racks can be had for well under the price you mention for the trailers you're considering.

I would think it easier to go cheaper with panniers than a trailer. I find the Nashbar waterproof panniers you mention to be quite adequate and have used them for a number of long tours including a Trans America.

I will also mention that if willing to somewhat minimal in packing style, just strapping on a couple stuff sacks can work well. I know that I managed to do the ST from San Diego to Sarasota with two ultralight stuff sacks and a road bike. That was with a very trimmed down list, but it did include camping and cooking stuff. I didn't find that I missed anything and had a great time. That trip the base gear weight was 14 pounds and not everyone would be willing to pack that light, but there is a middle ground where you could carry a bit more and still use the basic approach. FWIW, I have found it possible to even go a good bit lighter than that and still maintain what I consider reasonable comfort, and that still without using much specialized expensive UL gear (no need for cuben fiber or other similar high dollar high tech stuff).

The points you both make about value on certain products are valid. I was pointing out my personal preferences for the Arkel bags, LHT bike and OMM racks. I have also looked at the kitty litter bucket rear panniers as a savings option and may yet opt to try that at some point. At least the hard buckets would serve as a seat as I sit at my table (action packer container) and have one left over for my bride. Everything must serve multiple purposes....

As far as the ultra light touring. I am sure there are those that find that mode of travel liberating. Me on the other hand....done that on the trail. Today, I am looking at the touring lifestyle as a way to travel comfortable and efficient. So yes...I may bring an extra electronic that I may not need, or have room to carry a full size camera with extra lenses. I will still be able to put in 50 miles a day and see things that I may not see on a trail. Looking forward to the adventure.

Panniers or trailer......well I'd say neither. Trailer would be at the bottom of my list because they are heavy, spoil the handling of your bike (in my limited experience of one) and are a pain to pack, 4 x panniers would be next and then 2 x panniers. Zero panniers would be my preference. I don't accept that traveling with less gear and fewer bags makes touring less comfortable, quite the reverse in fact.

So to the OP I'd probably advise you go with 2 x panniers and a handlebar bag. You should be able to fit everything you need to be comfortable in there using readily available gear and some common sense.......no cast iron cooking pots.

I use both methods but the trailer for longer trips. I would warn people that the trailer approach is likely to make you take more than you need because "You Can".
A real disadvantage to my first set up was wind resistance. I had a large plastic lidded box on my Carry Freedom Y-frame trailer and in hindsite would not use the box again. It was great for keeping everything dry but the merest breeze would see me changing down gears to try to maintain my cadence.
I found the weight of the trailer (and wind resistance) slowed me down considerably and kept my daily distances much less than had I traveled with panniers alone. I toured with the trailer, front panniers and a rear rack bag (Ortlieb 31 liter) for my East to West Australia tour. Heres my Moulton APB with trailer (sans panniers and rack bag)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/...3/DSC04963.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/...3/DSC04907.jpg

The Moulton cant carry enough water for Australian extended touring so the trailer is necessary.
I think when I arrived in Perth I'd learnt to carry a lot less food and water than when I started.
Now I just have my backpack strapped to the trailer.
I think the biggest tip for trailer towing is keep your heavy items (eg water) as low as you can manage
as it makes a huge difference to how the trailer handles.
A two wheeled trailer is king for tarmac towing (IMHO) but the single wheel trailers are what is best for off road.

That's exactly what I'm doing for my next bike trip later this month. The amount of gear I'm taking for a two-week winter trip will be the same or a little less than I used for the last one-week summer trips.

The only time I used front and rear panniers was when I was on a route which had me away from supply points for multiple days. Carrying enough food for four days added some bulk to the load.

Oregon Coast route, some just used the wide double gearon their racey -sport bikes and a BoB trailer

others, the pannier route, was taken, or both. maybe the pet dog came along..


did a few long trips with compartmented panniers, the forced organization was useful ,
but once home, less useful , than the open bucket bags

that go on the bike to the grocery shop, and come home with food in them.
& got a nickel off the bill for bringing my own bag, for each one the store didnt use.

Very similar situations to what dictates whether I take the BOB, of just use panniers. I like to take the stuff I want, thus the BOB. But if our tour involves trains or planes, I usually stuff the panniers, plus a two or three dry bags.

Before I got my BOB, I had difficulty standing out of the saddle and climbing with panniers. After I got the BOB, I learned how to wiggle less because of the feedback from the trailer. I then learned how to climb out of the saddle, with front panniers and the BOB (my preferred configuration), and subsequently without the BOB, and only panniers and dry bags on the rear rack.

Descending somewhat steep and winding roads also fine-tuned my ability to pick my line in corners much better. I've never lost it in a corner, but I learned quite quickly the ramifications of poor cornering:twitchy:

Probably the dodgiest descent, aside from Heart-Break-Hill, was the Anarchist. I checked my air pressures at the top and really watched how much I braked. I re-checked the pressures at the bottom, and they hadn't increased at all.

This is such a Ford Vs Chevy issue that there is no right answer. Only what is right for you.

One random thought - I have to laugh at the comments about trailers being a pain in the ass to deal with. Dragging them up stairs, over barriers, shipping them etc. Cut me a break! Relative to other forms of touring Bicycle touring in itself is a pain in the ass!!! You ride a bike ladened with 30 to 40 pounds of gear through all sorts of weather up and down steep hills and mountains - you have to carefully pack everything you carry. You are grimy hungry and tired. After 6, 8, 10 hours of immence physical output, you need to put together a tent, and prepare an eatable meal. Then you get to sleep in a cold wet tent. Yet, dealing with a trailer is too much trouble? Seriously?

Nothing about bicycle touring is easy. That's part of the challenge. There is no easy way to bicycle tour. Only personal preferences about how to tour. MY preference is trailers. I like the just throw it on and strap it down factor. As well as the flexiblity of not being married to just one bike. None of the downsides of trailer towing is enough of a PIA to be a deal killer. That said, we use panniers as well. THey're OK, get the job done. We need to balance the load and saddle up one of the 520s to use them. Again, the downsides of panniers are not a deal killer. it all comes down to personal choice. There is no wrong answer.

When I'm on the road, the choice between panniers or a trailer is a matter of personal preference. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages and there is no one right answer. For a trip which begins and ends from my home, either method will work well. Either method will give me a good touring experience. I have enjoyed touring with a trailer and I have also enjoyed touring with panniers.

The only drawback I have found to using the trailer is when I need to use other methods of transportation, especially when flying. If I could get the trailer to fit in the same box as the bike, it would not be a problem. However, when I tried to pack a Burley Flatbed trailer into a bike box, I was unable to make it fit. The bike box would have to be extended and it would no longer meet the airline's size limit. Packing the trailer separately would have meant paying two bike shipping fees, not just one. This is not necessarily a deal breaker, but it was enough to make the panniers a lot more attractive.

I agree! Tours that involve shipping the bike to a start point or from an end point, panniers offer a clear advantage. A clear shipping advantage. The advantage while on the tour itself is again right down to that vanilla/chocolate thing. That I use both tells me that both have a place in the tool box. What is the mission? Ok, which tool will work better? On trips where there is no clear advantage one way or another I'm a trailer guy.

Another thought is - how much will you put up with? Ok, trailers might cause trailer wag. is that Ok with you? panniers make the bike a lot less responsive, you ok with that? It's kinda like putting up with the mushy shifer on a manual transmission Honda Civic. It's a manual and you are shifting it through the gears, but it doesn't have the precise shift gate of a Mini Cooper. If shift feel is important to you, buy the Mini. if it's not, put up with the Honda.

Including a single wheel BOB trailer with your travel luggage is simple. Just remove fender, wheel and front yoke section of the trailer and put these items inside the bag. Pack the other soft items normally carried in your bike baggage around them. Lash the bag securely to the disassembled trailer frame. It has then been reduced to a suitcase surrounded by a metal frame . No box required. Pad the protruding dropouts of the trailer with cardboard. Make sure it's weight does not exceed bag limit

I prefer panniers, but also have a trailer.

We're planning a trip this summer with a group of different abilities:
- the strongest rider gets the trailer with almost everything
- the middle rider has one pannier (kitchen) and maybe a tent / sleeping strapped on top of the rack
- the weakest rider is carrying nothing

The group will have an easier time staying together this way, and be able to go further/faster than if everyone had two panniers with something on the rack.