I will be interested to hear his reasons. We had some journalist friends of ours have their electronic media seized when coming back from somewhere in the middle east, they eventually got it all back but a thumb drive with no explanation.

Aaron :)

I wonder if anyone intends using the iPhone 5 (or even the earlier generations of the device) for their mapping on a tour.

Well... maybe not.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226479242367

To be fair, it's not the iPhone it's Apple's mapping app. You can still use Google maps or any other mapping website. It works great for me here in N. Calif. England seems to have the most issues so far.

I suppose it would work great in California. Isn't that where Apple is based?

Computers can be used to store information of all sorts and what might be acceptable inside borders osn't necessarily acceptable internationally. For example a friend moving from Canada to the USA had all his music DVDs siezed because ... they were copies. Its becoming increasingly common for people on bussiness trips internationally to carry 'sanitized' laptops - ie: laptops that contain nothing except an OS and access to document stored in some virtual warehouse. That makes the computer easy to clear customs. Digital cameras aren't much different. They have storage capacity that enables anyone to copy multiple gigs of information (documents and programs, as well as questionable photographs. I've been questioned myself by security on ocassion about some of the photographs taken around government buildings and sites. Tourists and terrorists can be hard to tell apart. The really unfortunate part is that the seriously dangerous individuals are already using virtual storage technology to bypass borders themselves.

Computers have been used to transport pornography, bootlegged software, confidential information and to conduct industrial espionage. Blueprints are pretty much a thing of the past - electronic versions on a hard drive take up less space, are easier to copy and edit, and have been a major security issue for corporations for decades. Most governments are just starting to wake up to the fact that there was no 'firewall' built into their borders.

None of this is science fiction - several individuals at more than one company I worked for are spending long years in prison for espionage. When you start working on government military contracts - everything you do and everywhere you go can be of interest to more than just the government of your home country.

Nice FUD! Glad to see you're still linking to the most stilted coverage you can find! I guess objective journalism just doesn't exist in Australia these day... or perhaps you just chose to ignore it? Give it a rest...

Why so much anger, sstorkel?

It's just as news story that is highlighting the fact that Apple isn't all rosy and shiny, and that people should ask questions about whether it can do the job properly when it comes to buying its products.

But even worse, I suppose, is the feeling that Apple marketing has produced a disturbing trend in disposable products that regularly get turfed by users who earnestly believe the next one is better.

There is a large degree of arrogance that also has developed with Apple even before Jobs died. The fact that it now is the wealthiest company in terms of listed value in the US seems to have given it a licence to pursue all sorts of people in the courts for what it perceives as copyright infringement. The US has brought in to finding for Apple, but I find it interesting that the courts of several other countries have denied Apple's attempts to foil Samsung and Android... and one has found Apple itself to have thieved some software.

You read and believe what you want. I don't care. People can do their own research, or not. But to help balance out the rhetoric about how good Apple products might be, it's only fair to indicate they may not be all that good.

Maybe you should stop trying to kill the messenger on this. You are starting to sound very... how can I put this... unprofessional.

Get Samsung 10.1" netbook if you want good battery life. It lasts more than 10 hours even if you use WiFi.

If you need powerful machine then get Samsung Series 9 in size 13,3" or 15". Those models are the smallest and lightest 13" and 15" laptops on the market. They are also the most beautiful laptops on the market imo.

I sold my iPad 2 few weeks ago because it sucks. Half of the websites wont work properly or at all.

If that sort of yellow journalism is what passes for objective in Australia, well, it's a sad day. I guess the reporter couldn't be bothered to actually try the new Maps app to see that despite a few problems it actually works pretty well? Then he claims that Apple is using "their platform dominance to privilege their own app"... without mentioning the fact that Google is as much to blame for the removal of their mapping app as Apple is. Apple's license for the Google map data is expiring. Apparently the two companies were unable to reach an agreement for that license to be renewed. Is that Apple's fault or Google's fault? I'm sure that neither of us knows for sure...

Please: name a smartphone manufacturer who handles operating system upgrades better than Apple. Got an Android phone? How many carrier-approved operating system upgrades have been released for it?

Please: prove that Apple products are regularly "turfed" by users. In my experience, Apple devices are much more likely to stay in use than other smartphones.

I'm sorry you find the fact that I disagree with the misinformation and half-truths that you've been posting unprofessional. Try being a bit more accurate and objective then I'm sure we'll get along famously :love:

All I am doing, chump, is posting information that is in mainstream media. You have made this personal, not me.

You behaviour suggests almost that you are on the Apple payroll. Me? I don't care for Apple products for the reasons I stated in my previous post. I don't care for Microsoft, either.

You were the one poo-pooing media coverage of "rumours" about the iPhone5 and the smaller connector. You were WRONG. Mainstream media that you so desperately decry says so.

As to the mapping, even a significant US roads department had to post on its website about the new Apple deficiencies. And when an Apple spokesperson is quoted in an article about how it's still in development, do you think it is made up?

Face the simple fact that Apple is not the be-all and end-all of computer technology in the world. Much as you want it to be.

And no, I don't want to get along famously with you.

You posted this question in June. In July for a two week bike tour I used a 7 inch tablet that runs on Android version 4. Previous trips I used a Lenovo netbook that is similar in capability to your Acer. My Lenovo uses Windows XP, I assume your Acer also runs on XP.

My conclusion from having used both is that it depends on what you want to use it for. If occasionally sending an e-mail (meaning that you type very little text), the tablet worked reasonably well for web browsing and occasionally backing up my photos. My netbook however has a lot more capability, has a real keyboard, can run serious spreadsheet and word processing software, etc.

I think that my netbook is much faster for web browsing, has a real mouse and overall is much quicker to use.

If space and weight is the driving factor, the tablet is a clear winner. And the tablet has much better battery life than my netbook. I think the high capacity 8 hour battery plus brick (power supply) that I have for my netbook weighs more than total weight for my tablet and charger.

I have Google Talk installed on both and I can use either as a phone where I have wi fi. It was harder to install that software on the tablet for Google Talk and to get it to work propertly, but now that it is installed, the tablet actually works a bit better than the netbook for use as a phone.

I have not used a smartphone and have no plans to buy one. I think that I paid less for my tablet than I would have paid for four months of a data plan for a smartphone.

If you want to do serious typing and software utilization, I think you should consider replacing your netbook with another netbook. But, if only used for web browsing, the newer small Android tablets work reasonably well.

For future trips, if I am carrying my camping gear on the bike, I will take the tablet. If I am on a supported tour, I will take the netbook.

That sounds like a good compromise .

What you're doing is talking trash, then getting offended when someone challenges you on it. Rather than attempt to prove any of your ridiculous claims, you run off and find even more junk to post. You're so poorly informed, it's really quite laughable... Sad to see that you're resorting to name-calling rather than attempting to defend your opinions. I'm still waiting to see:

- Proof that you had confirmed information on Apple's new dock connector on or before June 30, 2012.

- Proof that I said Apple wasn't working on a new dock connector

- Proof that Apple products are regularly "turfed" by users

- Proof that other smartphone manufacturers handle operating system upgrades better than Apple.

Why the constant evasion? Not man enough to admit when you've made a mistake?

I think there are a lot of cry babies like yourself attempting to make mountains out of mole hills so they can get themselves a nice little sound bite or by-line. My company develops location-enabled software for a wide range of mobile platforms, so I've looked at the mapping programs offered on iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. I've yet to find one that was 100% accurate. In day-to-day usage, I haven't found much difference between any of the three. Show me a location screw-up in the new iOS maps app and I guarantee I can show you a similar problem in Android or Windows. Google StreetView is clearly superior to the aerial fly-bys in Apple's new app but they're both pretty useless as anything other than a curiosity...

@ Rowen and SStorkel

Somewhere on this forum are sure to be a few iPhone vs. Android threads.

Do you think you could keep this thread on topic and take the endless Google vs. Apple argument over there ?.

This would help the others that don't care about the OS wars, to actually read as to what computer worked well on a long distance tour.

Thanks.

SB

Are we talking about taking a computer on tour, or are we on the playground arguing about who's brother can beat up who's brother?

Rowan has pretty much said that he's not a fan of Apple based on their policies and politics. That's fine, but it has little relation to how suitable their products are for bike touring. However Rowan has also provided actual information about real-world situations where Apple may have dropped the ball from a usability standpoint. In particular with Maps, this is something that could have serious consequences when looking at an iOS device as a travel aid.

sstorkel seems to believe we are in a court of law and can win an argument with semantics rather actually adding anything of substance to the discussion. There's no need to prove that you said anything definitive about the dock connector. You were clearly dismissive of the idea, and now that we have a new dock connector, the relevant question isn't "What can we prove storkel did or didn't say?" It's "how does a new dock connector affect the suitability of using an iOS device for touring?" I don't really see a huge effect, but I can see that in this transition period, if you wanted to carry two iOS devices, you would probably need two cables or one cable and an adapter. Something to be aware of, but probably not a show stopper if you already like iOS.

Maps is a more serious issue. However, I think it gets a lot of extra attention because Apple has a reputation for great user experience, and Maps is the opposite of that. Obviously if you're touring, you need reliable map data. I don't know what kind of relationship you have to have with Apple to be blind to the faults of Maps, but everything I have read says that there are real faults, serious faults. Sure, there are people who wait for Apple to screw up, just so they can cry "foul" and taunt the Apple fanbois. But many of the people complaining about Maps are long time Apple users and fans. I have read nothing that says that the recent upgrade is any kind of net improvement. The addition of spoken, turn-by-turn directions (a plus for bike touring? I'm not sure) is more than balanced out by the bad data behind the software. The subject of debate isn't whether or not Maps took a step backwards, but rather the debate is how much of a backward step did they take and can they ever catch up with Google and when. I don't need to provide proof. I've done my own homework, and anyone spending hundreds of dollars on a new piece of electronics should do their own homework.

But I like iOS. It does what I need it to, and it works like it should, most of the time. If I was relying on the Maps app, then the downgraded performance of the new Maps app would be a serious issue, but the reality is that for touring purposes, and even for general use, the old Maps app was not my go-to navigation tool, so knowing that the new app has taken a step backwards doesn't really change my purchasing decisions. However there is a lot to be said for Google Maps, and it seems clear that for now you will get better Google Maps integration on an Android device. If that's key to your touring experience, an iOS 6 device may not be ideal for you. There are actually ways to access Google Maps data on an iOS device, it's just no longer baked in to the OS. So if you like Apple's mobile platform, it shouldn't be discounted as touring solution on the basis of one bad app, but if you like Google Maps, and want it as integrated as possible into the OS, then you probably want an Android device.

And of course if you don't want a mobile platform, then none of that matters at all.

Also my operating system can totally beat up your operating system.

My understanding is that the problem is easily worked around by using google maps on the apple device. That said I went with an Android phone and my only computer and am quite satisfied.

Edit: That should have read "my only computer on tour"

I use the iPhone4 and I'm very happy with it. I haven't updated the OS for a while and still use the native Google Maps app. I use the iPhone4 for maps, blogging, music, camera etc etc. My only issue is the screen size envy I get when I see the latest Android phones, andI don't think the iPhone5s slightly larger screen will solve that either. A good Smartphone is all the computing I need on tour....heck you can even get video editing apps now. Whether you go Apple, Android.....or even Microsoft you'll probably be happy.

So: it sounds like you haven't actually used the new Apple Maps app? I have. Here's what my real-world evaluation:

3D view doesn't work on my iPhone 4, but I've seen the reports that the pictures are screwed up in some places. Who cares? StreetView is clearly superior... but I can't remember the last time I actually used it on my iPhone or iPad.

Walking and transit directions are gone from the new app. Personally, I don't see this as a big loss. I never found them to be particularly accurate and switched to dedicated 3rd-party apps for the forms of transit I use regularly. Google Maps was particularly bad for cycling! It would frequently show me a map with a visible bicycle route... but direct me onto a busy road that sent me miles out of my way!

In terms of Map accuracy and the ability to plot addresses, I've yet to find any major mistakes in my day-to-day usage. In fact, some friends recently bought a house in the middle of nowhere and the new Apple Maps app places their house in the correct location... while the old Google Maps app and my car GPS have the location slightly incorrect and give driving directions that are seriously inaccurate. I don't doubt that there are problems, but I don't seem to be running into them more frequently with the new app than I did with the older app.

The one area where the new Maps app truly suffers is search. Google, obviously, does search very well. Search in the new Apple Maps app can be annoying. Often, it seems, you'll have to enter a city along with the name of a place in order to find it, whereas the old Google Maps app wouldn't need the city. As an example, the old Maps app could find something like "The French Laundry" but the new Maps app is more likely to require "The French Laundry Yountville" in order to be able to display the location.

Search suggestions are also pretty poor in the new Maps app. The old Google Maps app was very good about knowing where you wanted to go after you'd typed a portion of the address or place name. Type "Heathr", for instance, and the old Google Maps app would suggest "London Heathrow Airport" as the first result, along with a bunch of other possibilities. The Apple Maps app waits until you've entered "heathrow ai" before finally suggesting "heathrow airport england" as a possible result.

I doubt many people will use the new turn-by-turn directions with voice prompting, but I have to admit that I'm a bit annoyed it isn't available on the iPhone 4. There are 3rd-party apps that provide this functionality (I've been using MotionX GPS Drive) so clearly it's possible. I wouldn't use this feature on the bicycle or in the car, where I have dedicated GPS devices, but it would occasionally be useful on the motorcycle.

In terms of rendering performance, I haven't done any scientific tests but the new Apple Maps app feels slightly slower than the old Google Maps app on my iPhone 4. On iPhone 5 the Apple Maps app is extremely fast and responsive; much faster than maps.google.com inside Mobile Safari. Clearly, the Apple's new vector-based map format works better on faster processors. Not sure I'd want to try running iOS6 Maps on an iPhone 3GS...

I've seen it and played with it minimally on my wife's phone. My iPad is still on iOS 5. And neither she nor I relied heavily on the old Maps app, so whatever problems do exist, we're not likely to encounter them. We both already rely on 3rd party apps. That said, many, but by no means all, of the problems reported with Maps have been outside the U.S. So depending on where you're planning on touring, it could still be an app to be wary of. I'm glad you find it acceptable, but one "It's not so bad" review doesn't really make it a useful touring tool.

Here you've outlined the two areas where I might use Maps. Since the iOS 5 [Google] Maps app failed to include cycling directions, the only way I could get routes that kept me off of limited access highways was to get walking directions. I did not realize that the new app had removed walking directions, so now that's one more reason not to use Maps. I have had numerous problems with Google's cycling directions when using the web version. I've also had numerous successes. I've also been able to notify Google of problems and have seen them fixed. I'm sorry that you don't find them helpful, but it's hard to imagine that not even having the option of walking or cycling directions would be an improvement.

The other thing I might do while touring was use Maps to search for local businesses. If I'm at home, I probably know whether or not a local business exists, so if I get no results, I figure I have to rework my search. If I'm in unfamiliar territory, then a bad search engine could stand between me and a meal or a place to stay.

So it sounds like the new Maps app doesn't find businesses as well and doesn't give bicycle-friendly directions, but at least it works faster than Google Maps. Doesn't sound friendly to bicycle touring at all, and what you've said in your review seems to agree with that. Not sure why you gave Rowan a hard time about it.

Like I said, I like Apple products, and I am happy using my iPad as a travel tool. But if the Maps app was the only way to navigate on an iOS device, then the latest "upgrade" sounds like it would seriously hurt the utility of an iOS 6 device as a touring tool. Fortunately, it is just one tool, and Google Maps data remains accessible as well as a number of 3rd party tools.

There's an extremely simple solution to the Apple maps issue.

In Safari, go to "maps.google.com". You will get a prompt to add an icon to the home page.

Voila !

Sit that app right next to the Apple map app and you're good to go.

I don't recall claiming this was an improvement...

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression: the search in iOS 6 Maps isn't bad, it just isn't as good as iOS 5 Maps. If iOS 5 is an 8.5/10.0 for search, then iOS6 is a 7.5-8.0. Generic search terms (ex: "restaurant", "motel") work reasonably well. Results seem slightly more conservative with iOS6 Maps than with iOS5 Maps. Search for "restaurant", for example, and iOS6 will show you restaurants. Depending on where you are, the list may or may not be complete but I've yet to find it completely empty. iOS5 Maps will also show you restaurants, including a few that have been closed for years and it might also mix in a restaurant supply store, a junior college that offers some restaurant management courses, and a couple of convenience stores that sell food.

Let's be honest: I wouldn't trust iOS5 Maps, iOS6 Maps, or my Garmin Edge 705 as my only source of navigation information on tour. They all have problems and inaccuracies. Fortunately, iOS6 Maps isn't the utter disaster than Rowan is suggesting. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for all of the things I used to use iOS5 Maps for on tour...