motion5447

Im just trying to figure out what type of stove i want to purchase for an extended tour in the us. I read this breakdown at REI.com, but still cant decide.




Butane, Propane or Isobutane Blend Canisters

Positives
Convenient, clean-burning and easy to light. Burn hot immediately and do not require priming. Can be adjusted easily for simmering. Can't spill.
Negatives
More expensive than other fuel types. You must carry and dispose of the fuel canisters, and most are non-recyclable. Performance may decrease in temperatures below freezing, however blended alternatives - butane/propane and isobutane - work better than straight butane in cold conditions. Pure propane works well down to 0°F. Butane will not work below 32°F.
Overall Review
Great for warm- to moderate-weather campers who want easy adjustability, few hassles and who don't mind carrying a little extra weight in their packs.

Kerosene


Positives
Inexpensive, easy to find (throughout the world), high heat output, spilled fuel does not ignite easily.
Negatives
Somewhat messy (burns dirty, smelly). Priming is required (easier if a different priming fuel is used), tends to gum up stove parts. Spilled fuel evaporates slowly.
Overall Review
A cheap, versatile fuel choice, especially for backpackers who plan on traveling outside of the United States (where white gas and butane blends may not be readily available). Not as clean or easy to deal with as butane or white gas.

White Gas

Positives
Inexpensive, easy to find throughout the United States. Clean, easy to light, spilled fuel evaporates quickly.
Negatives
Volatile (spilled fuel can ignite quickly), priming is required (fuel from the stove can be used). Can be hard to find outside of the United States.
Overall Review
A great overall performer, perfect for travel throughout North America in just about any weather conditions. Reliable, inexpensive and efficient.

Denatured Alcohol

Positives
A renewable fuel resource, low volatility. Burns almost silently. Alcohol-burning stoves tend to have fewer moving parts than other types, lowering the chance of breakdown.
Negatives
Lower heat output, so cooking takes longer and requires more fuel. Fuel can be hard to find outside of the U.S. and Canada.
Overall Review
A viable, environmentally-friendly option for travel in the U.S. and Canada, especially if you crave peace, quiet and a slow pace on your backpacking trips.

Unleaded Gas

Positives
Very inexpensive, easy to find throughout the world.
Negatives
Burns dirty/sooty, can lead to frequent stove clogs. Extremely volatile.
Overall Review
Usually used as a last resort only. Price and availability make it an attractive option for backpackers traveling in extremely remote areas. NOTE: Never use oxygenated gasoline in your backpacking stove. Sold in many parts of the U.S. in the winter months, its additives can destroy rubber stove parts and seals.






I guess in reading this im leaning towards either a white gas or canister. I suppose if i knew where the frequency of shops that i could purchase either canisters or white gas, it would make my descision easier.

So, does anyone have some recomendations on types, or even specific models?

Schumius

i bought a primus omnifuel which takes LP gas, gasoline/petrol, diesel and kerosene, basically all kinds of fuel. so you can get canisters if they´re available, if not just use whatever you can find.

jharte

Besides my alcohol stove, I also have an MSR Whisperlite International. It too can use many different types of fuels.

If you are going to tour outside the US, a multi-fuel stove will give you more options. Not all fuels burn efficiently. Some burn very dirty. Keeping your multi-fuel stove (the jets) clean will be very important. It's really just part of the flexibility of having something so versitile. When you do your research. consider narrowing by multi-fuel stoves only.

Also, when you do find one you like, cook with it using different fuel types before your trip. Nothing worse than being hungry out in BFE, and not knowing if the thing will light!

supcom

For a cross US tour, I would be concerned about the availability of butane cannisters outside of major cities and outdoor stores.

White gas, aka Coleman stove fuel, is pretty universally available in hardware stores and xmart stores. With a reasonable sized container, you should not have much trouble finding it. The biggest problem is that it is typically sold by the gallon, so you may end up buying more than you can carry.

Alcohol, sold as 'denatured alcohol' is available in smaller sized (quart?) containers at any hardware store or xmart. You can also use a gas additive like Heet (metyl alcohol version) sold at gas stations and auto parts stores.

I recommend either an alcohol stove or a multi-fuel white gas stove. A multifuel stove would give you the option of running gasoline in an emergency, though with a bit of planning you should not need to resort to unleaded. The stoves do require periodic maintenance to remove deposits and replace seals, but do a reasonable job of simmering and will boil water very quickly.

Alcohol stoves work best for cooking that requires little more than boiling water as they tend to have very little, if any, flame adjustment. But they burn with no soot and are totally maintenance free. You can easily build one yourself in an hours time with a couple soda cans and a little epoxy. In a pinch, you can literally just cut soda can in half, pour in a little alcohol, light it, and start cooking.

BryanKeith

I also have a MSR Whisperlite International which I used on a cycle tour across Africa among other places. The ideal fuel seemed to be 80-90% kerosene topped off with gasoline which helps to get the kerosene to ignite. Of course, the ideal fuel isn't always available so having a multi-fuel stove gives lots of options. Know how to clean your stove since it will get clogged. The biggest problems I had were with the gasoline in Malawi (the jets) and the sand in Namibia (the pump).

BryanKeith

Oops, I just noticed you specfically said "US tour". I use the same stove here in the US for the same reasons (lots of options). White gas burns great, but it's often sold in big containers (4L) if you can find it at all. I end up using gasoline a lot just like anywhere else.

cyccommute 

I've used both propane and white gas on tours. I have an MSR Whisperlite and a Primus Techotrail. I used the Primus last fall for a tour along the Missouri River from S. Dakota to St. Louis. I did carry extra canisters but I ran out in Council Bluffs. Fortunately, I was able to find an outdoor shop in Omaha that carried canisters, but yes, they can be hard to find in the middle of nowhere.

That said, I do prefer the propane stoves. For high altitude, which crossing the US you are going to run into, they work very well. Pressure differentials and all that. The flame has much better control than the MSR which means you can actually cook things rather than burn them to to bottom of a pot or leave rice kind of crunchy. They are also very clean. The priming process on the MSR leaves the stove covered in soot, especially at high altitude. And, finally, they light better. No matches needed if it has a piezo electric igniter.

But ... for the next section of the Lewis and Clark, I'll probably carry the Whisperlite or both stoves because from Great Fall to Peirre, SD. There's a whole lot more of nothin' than the southern part of the route.

Stuart Black

Netcelt

I second the multi-fuel recommendation. I have a coleman exponent stove which runs equally well on gasoline or coleman fuel. It's lightweight and compact, and one fill up will last for several meals. Another thing I love is the flame adjustability. Also, unlike some of the "boutique" stoves out there it's cheap. Think I paid $50 for it. It's also not picky about being clean or handled gently. I liked the idea of being able to use different fuel types in case one was not available.

JimboTrek

I own a MSR Dragonfly & MSR Superfly. Also used alcohol soda can stove. On the Appalachian Trail, I've seen every brand and type of stove being used. You have many options. But ask yourself these questions 1st:

-Where exactly are u touring? Just USA, cities, remote places, etc.?
-Where are you cooking? Mt tops, cold environments, etc.
-How many meals cooked/day or /week?
-Are u cooking for another or solo?
-Only boiling water or are you a outdoor gourmet?
-Do you want hot food in your tummy ASAP?
-what cookwear u using? Solo titanium pot, 2 qt aluminum, etc.

Here's the run down from my travels...

--Dragonfly: multi-fuel liquid stove. (used on 1 of my bike tours) It burns white gas, kerosene, auto & jet fuel. I've only used white gas in it. It's a flame thrower but simmers, works great and no problems yet, but the downside is it takes longer to get dinner going cuz of the set-up/priming. Also is somewhat heavy w/ a full 11oz fuel bottle. White gas is ready-avail and can buy by the ounce at many local outfitters. (otherwise 1 qt or 1 gal cans).

--Superfly: iso-butane canisters. I got this because I wanted a lighter stove and quicker set up for hiking. (No priming, no fuss, piezo ignitier, weighs like 5oz. Canisters are avaible at almost any outfitter but, are $5-6 ea. (expensive) It works better with wider pots, though there are lighter & better butane stoves avail.

--Soda can stoves are neat (worked OK for me) Cost $1-2, nothing to break down, alcohol is only a little more expensive than white gas and is avail at outfitters and hdware stores. But it definitely takes longer to cook. Fuel amount is a guessing game until u master it. Very popular with hikers, but you sacrafice performance for weight savings... Also they don't work very well in cold/high altitude. Unless u are a weight weenie and only boiling 2 cups of water/day. IMO, the others types are much better for bike touring.

Bottom line: Consider my questions then go w/ a multi-fuel liquid stove (most versatile for travel/touring) --or-- a "backpackers" butane stove (light, quick, easy). In any case, buy one of the better stove brands: MSR, SnowPeak, or Primus. Also ck out the Jetboil stove. (REI & Campmor have awesome cust service)

Consider these w/ stove purchase: Cookpot, utensil, stove repair kit, windscreen, fuel bottle/fuel funnel, pot lifter.

Erick L

I've always prefered naphta (white gas) and my current stove is a MSR Dragonfly. It's an akward stove to pack, somewhat heavy, extremely noisy (embarrassing on campground) but simmers like a charm. I leave the pump on it so the pressure stays in, which means less pumping.

I had a Coleman Peak 1 Apex II before. Neat stove, quiter than the Dragonfly, simmers just as well, easier to pack, more flimsy and one size of fuel bottle only.

If I were buying now, I'd choose an Optimus Nova. Quite expensive though. Primus makes a stoves that can take both liquid fuel and canisters.

JimboTrek

Motion, I'm feeling esp wordy today (correction- my Dragonfly has a 22oz bottle)

In response to the others...

If you are only bike touring in the USA, availabilty of any fuel will almost definitely NOT be an issue. You will roll thru a town (w/ an outfitter or hardware store) before you run out of fuel. I've biked thru 14 states, there are towns everywhere!

Example: On the AT, I cooked 1 meal/day, 4-6 days/week. I got the 8oz canisters to last from 1 to 3 weeks! Longest stretch I was in the woods was 7 days. A trail buddy of mine used a Whisperlite -- switched from 22oz to 11oz fuel bottle (small) and he was cooking for 2 - never ran out of fuel in the woods!

IMO, White gas -or- butane are the "best bang for the buck" stove/fuel options.

If you don't mind priming, like cooking breakfast and dinner everyday, cooking for 2 and may travel overseas eventually-- go w/ a multi-fuel liquid stove w/ a simmer control; but just use white gas- it's much cleaner. You'll have the multi fuel option, but there's NO reason to use other "dirty" gases in the USA. Still concerned about running low on gas? -- use a 22 or 33oz fuel bottle.

Going solo? Only need 3-6 dinners a week, don't want fuss, want your dinner hot & quick, don't mind $5-6 canisters, staying in USA?-- go with a canister stove. You can always carry 2 canisters for long stretches as they are not that heavy. That new Jetboil stove supposedly sips the 4oz canisters (the 8oz canisters will not fit inside the pot)

1 more thing...always carry 1-2 good lighters and backup matches in a waterproof bag

Hope that helps...ENJOY YOUR TRIP!

drcrash

I have a MSR Dragonfly as well. I've burned both white gas and unleaded gasoline with it. Both fuels worked well, but I prefer white gas because it is cleaner. It is noisy and relatively expensive, but it gets hot in a hurry and can simmer a stew for an hour without burning.

Rogerinchrist

Mucho good advice above!
If cost is a major factor........
Propane, stoves can be had for less than $15, fuel bottles are usually under $2 if you shop abit, and can be found most eveywhere. This and all the things mentioned above. Plus one 1lb. fuel bottle will probably last your whole trip.

Alcohol, stoves can be made cheap & light (if you can cut a soda can) & methonal gas line antifreeze is cheap & eazy to find in small amounts. Check out this thread for a little more info and a good website link.[ Pop Can Stove for Touring ]

Wood, yeah I know it's an oddball but, the stoves are quick and eazy to make and most places in the US have enough fuel. You can always carry a couple of chunks of charcoal in a zip bag for rainy days, which I might add can be found in previously occupied picnic & campsites. (zero $)

Whatever you decide write about it here, and tell us your concluding thoughts.

Roger

motion5447

Thanks alot for typing all that out. That directly answered my question.



"Example: On the AT, I cooked 1 meal/day, 4-6 days/week. I got the 8oz canisters to last from 1 to 3 weeks!" were you refering to a prefilled, disposable type here?

What do you think for this type is the more readily avalible brands? or do they all interchange?

JimboTrek

No problema...
Yes, all butane canisters are prefilled & must be disposed of when empty. They cannot be refilled like those large propane BBQ tanks. Propane is also associated w/ those large Coleman car camping stoves which you don't want strapped to your bike!

MSR, SP Gigapower, Primus, Jetboil, Coleman, etc. brands are all the same iso-butane gas... Obviously MSR recommends you use their brand w/ their stove, and so on. All the above have standard threaded valves, so interchanging is fine. Camping Gaz (large blue can) -- I think that has a different valve type than the others, so it doesn't work with most stoves. One reason I bought the MSR Superfly stove is that is has a universal valve mount. Turns out I really didn't needed this feature as I always use the most commonly found brands anyway (MSR, SP Gigapower, Primus) -- all standard threaded valves.

If you're leaning towards a butane stove, I noticed the MSR PocketRocket was very popular on the AT (no piezo igniter though). SnowPeak Giga stoves and Primus look like a good choices also. I'd really like to try that new Jetboil system... Looks really neat. It's getting great reviews too.

I've heard MSR has developed a new liquid gas stove that requires no priming and is very light. Unfortunately, it is not on the market yet, and no metion of it on their website (yet)

Loads of reviews:
www.outdoorreview.com
www.trailspace.com/gear
www.backpacker.com/gear/stoves

JimboTrek

Duh, I forgot to mention this...

Order of Availability AND cost/ounce (In USA or overseas)
1) Auto gas
2) Kerosene
3) White Gas/Coleman fuel
4) Denatured Alcohol
5) Butane canisters

Firstly this isn't an issue and forget using 1&2 (in USA)... 3,4,5 are avail in all outfitters, and 3&4 are also avail in hardware stores like Home Depot. Small town hardware stores (near mountains) may even sell white gas by the ounce. Yeah butane is expensive/ounce but its great for many reasons that I already mentioned. Now stick a fork in me...I'm done.

JimboTrek

"Example: On the AT, I cooked 1 meal/day, 4-6 days/week. I got the 8oz canisters to last from 1 to 3 weeks!" were you refering to a prefilled, disposable type here?

Yes, I used 3 diff brands of butane canisters w/ MSR Superfly stove. You can also save fuel by using the simmer control, windscreen, or heat exchanger (winter camping). But do not fully enclose a canister around a windscreen--It may explode!

saddlesores

i may have missed it....but denatured alcohol is readily available throughout the
us at hardware stores and wally world in quart cans. also common in europe,
australia, and even new zealand (of all places). a trangia type stove has no
moving parts. cooking time is no longer than with other type fuels, at least not
enough for me to notice.

Erick L

What do people find so difficult about priming? Just open the valve to let some gas on the stove, close the valve, light up and keep chopping your onions...

cyccommute 

It's the dealing with the soot all over the stove afterward that I object to. Especially here in the west where water (for cleaning up afterwards) can be tough to come by at times.

Stuart Black

Erick L

I see. I never clean my stove. I just checked and I had to rub the stove pretty hard just to get a tiny amount of soot on my my finger.

JimboTrek

It's not difficult, just a pain in the ass! Especially when you've just biked 80 mile or hiked 20 miles, you're tired, hungry, cold, it's raining, and your fingers are numb. Not to metion flare ups...

Rogerinchrist

I would like to respectfully disagree.
Single burner propane stove with disposable bottle.

motion5447

DO you by chance know how long an average sized canister might last? This would effect my descision a bit.

You mentioned in a earlier post that canister stoves are good for a 3-4 times a week. I would probably be using it for breakfast and dinner every day. Do you see a problem there?

JimboTrek

I'm sure thats bueno for you, but that contraption is overkill for biking/hiking, esp trying to go light. It's too big and probably weighs several pounds. I'm guessing Motion is shopping for a small "backpackers" stove.

Depends on the burn time of the stove and weather conditions. Check stove's specs on REI or the manufacturer's website. Most canister stoves will give you 40-60 mins of full burn time. Longer when you factor in simmering, i.e. Many liters of water) There's no reason you can't cook 2 meals everyday, you'll simply go thru canisters faster and thus probably should carry 2 at a time... This will add to your costs a bit, but not considerably. A white gas stove w/ a 22 or 33oz fuel bottle will definitely be able to cook more meals but will be heavier and have more set up time. Everything has a trade-off. (The Jet boil stove boasts a single 100-gram Jetpower canister boils 12 liters of water and their canisters have only 3.5oz of gas.) You might want to visit your local REI or outfitter to give all the stoves a closer look. Outfitters are also very helpful w/ more info.

BTW, how long is your tour and where you going?