Tourers have been using cantis for a long time & discs are still sort of new for touring. But I think more & more casual cyclists will see discs as a 'cool' feature & it might become de rigeur like 21-24 speed derailleur systems. Increasing production for casual cyclists will make discs cheaper for tourers who will start to think discs should be included on a $1,000+ bike. QBP Surly & Salsa making disc tourers & since they're huge seems like smaller companies will eventually go along.


Thanks for those links. Have Torx bits...a lot of bike component installation manuals include torque specs...IMHO that's helpful but usually a torque wrench not necessary per se.


Even for bikes with straight forks that "rake" forward? Comparing straight vs curved is dicey since it usually involves different frames. Lots of MTB & road racing frames with straight forks. Straight-fork MTB's usually have suspension though & road racing frames not of course optimized for comfort anyway. But apples vs apples, ie a curved-fork steel frame vs a steel straight-fork frame with same overall fork rake (or trail?), wheelbase etc? Not that I'm disputing you but I never quite accepted that the fork curve was what provided the flex. In the "old days" it was simply easier for frame builders/tube makers to bend forks than to use fork crowns with special angles.

...knowing how to pull the levers? I've never had issues with brakes. I use brakes sparingly (avoid stop and go) and have seldom worn out pads and have never worn out rims or had problems stopping even in wet conditions (except on my old Raleigh which has 45+ yr old brake pads which are almost useless in the rain). And that includes long daily commutes, fast day rides, bike tours across Europe and N.A..

That said, good quality brakes are more effective regardless of the experience level of the rider. Well designed brakes are safer and instill more confidence in any rider regardless of experience because that they have more sensitivity, better regulation of braking force, and if well set up feel as smooth as silk which results in better 'feel'. This doesn't result from technique but from the quality of the brakes, cables, and pads themselves.

I ran caliper brakes forever on my old touring bike,the new ride got disks.While I had no problems really with the old brakes,got me to alot of places just fine,I'll never go back to rim brakes again.

Disks did the same for bicycles as they did for cars,there just better.It's like going from manual brakes to power disk brakes on a car.Disks can be noisy at times,but that noise can be put to good use at times during commuting....:)

There is more involved in knowing how to use the brakes than pulling the lever. Therein lies the problem with most brake issues. People think that all you have to do is "pull the lever". But effective braking involves weight shifts, when to use them, how much pressure to apply, awareness of surface conditions, etc. From what you say, I think you understand more about braking and the subtleties involved than most people do. But most people don't know all that much about how to effectively stop a bike in all conditions...hint: it's not simply pulling the levers.

I don't disagree but most all brakes are well designed. They just may not be adjusted properly but most all of them are well designed.

[Partial QUOTE=positron;14578462]Disks win because you don't wear out your rims. Dishing and spoke breakage will not be an issue if your wheels are built properly. ...... disks- the best because you dont have to rebuild your wheels when your rims dont wear out. /thread[/QUOTE]

Mostly agree. Wanted to probe the larger audience regarding; Are a lot of folks really wearing out rims due to contact with brake pads? If so, what kind of riding are they doing, such as extreme downhill mountain trails, riding through sand, etc. Are they using super thin walled rims, etc. Are they folks who do not keep their pads clean, trimmed, and adjusted on a regular basis...?

In 30+ years of road and mountain bike riding, I've worn out 2 rims that I can think of. I don't baby my wheels...I've broken more rims than I've worn out...nor do I only ride in fair weather. I ride 12 months out of the year in all kinds of conditions. Nor do I buy heavy rims. Most of my rims are high end and, thus, tend towards the lighter side.

I guess in my mind things like weight shifts, balancing between the use of the front vs. rear brake etc. are all a given. But I started out as a BMX kid doing trick riding where the finessing of brakes is essential for everything, and what a difference good brakes makes.

And I have to disagree that all brakes are well designed - some are mushy, some seem to have too much friction in the mechanisms, some are too sensitive, some unresponsive, some are crunchy ...and then there are those that can really be finessed. But admittedly this has as much to do with install and maintenance as the brakes themselves.

[Partial QUOTE=positron;14578462]Disks win because you don't wear out your rims. Dishing and spoke breakage will not be an issue if your wheels are built properly. ...... disks- the best because you dont have to rebuild your wheels when your rims dont wear out. /thread[/QUOTE]


I have a friend that goes through rims like underwear. After a few seasons the bead of his aluminum rim peels off like the safety tab of a juice bottle. But he also drives a car like hell - always accelerating and then braking heavily. I've put thousands of miles on a pair of open-pros that are still as good as new and going on 10 years old. But that's my fast bike so it doesn't see much rain. My commuting bike (which I ride year round) is a Ti cyclocross with rims that also have tens of thousands of Km's on them - some of it trail riding but never anything with big drops. I guess I'm just easy on my gear, which is strange because I'm a very aggressive rider.

Cantis for me are mostly a road lever thing. Just slap the brakes on, and wire them so the straddle cable is about 90 degrees when the rubber hits the rim. There are some issues of geometry, but if you buy a bike from a reputable maker, they will have sorted these out for you. If you are rigging your own, at least find a picture of the factory set-up, and copy the geometry (mostly the brake form).

[QUOTE=ksisler;14924899]I ride 52 weeks/year in the PNW. I wear out about 1 rim/year on my tandem. When I only rode singles, I wore out about 1 rim every other year until I bought Mavic Open Pro Ceramics, the last wet weather single rims I hope I ever buy. Unfortunately, they don't make them any more. If I'd known they'd stop, I'd have put a couple by. It's not uncommon for people who ride in our group to wear out a pair of Open Pros in one season.

I run Koolstop Salmon pads on aluminum, green pads on Ceramic. I'm an aggressive rider, but mostly it's that I do a lot of hills and paceline work in the rain in an area that sands its roads in the winter time. Brakes on rims sounds like grinding paste, which it is. I've tried a few different rims. MA2s were a thick-walled rim, not made anymore. Most rim brake tracks seem about the same thickness now. Everyone I ride with has about the same experience. Yes, I wash my bike between rides or at least wipe the rims down with alcohol. In any case, I spend much more money on tires than I do on rims. $100/rim/year even for the tandem is not an intolerable expense, amortized over ~4000 miles, or about 2.5 cents per mile. Heck, I spend several times that on coffee stops for the two of us.

For the thread, I run Avid V-brakes on Deep-V rims on the tandem. They work fine for sport riding in the mountains for our 305 lb. team. If you need more brakes than that, you might think about leaving some gear at home. For loaded touring in hilly or mountainous regions, we switch to our rear wheel with the Arai drum brake, but then we're about 400 lbs. all up.

Thinking about all this stuff, on a tandem group ride descent of Mt. Ventoux, the only tandems which made it down with brakes still working were either running rim brakes or rim brakes plus an Arai drum. The discs all failed. Those running just rims had the sense to stop and let them cool. This was about a year ago. Discs have gotten a little better since then. On group tandem rides, disc failures about match the tires blown off rim brake bikes, fortunately after the bikes had stopped. I haven't had a tire blown off a Deep-V rim, presumably because of the greater thermal mass. Something to keep in mind when specing a rim brake touring bike. Great rims, too.

Cyclocross bikes, MTBs, and road race bikes don't have much in common with touring bikes other than two wheels. Tandems are more similar.

You'd be surprised. Most people are of the mind that 'just pulling the levers' is enough but fail to understand the nuances.

I said 'most' brakes are well designed...not all. To be honest even the highly desired discs suffer from many of the problems you detail above.

This to me is key, it blows my mind how often people bring their brakes into the shop and complain about them not working but they could not be set up any worse if I tried. The biggest thing I see is people pulling the cable so tight that the brake are doesn't have any travel left. People need to realize mechanical discs are not hard to set up but you do not do everything just like with v-brakes. A little research goes a long way.

I have a set of Tektro mechanical disc brakes and they are by no means high end and even they have loads of stopping power and are super easy to adjust.

I prefer brakes which say Paul

Just me, but I think that in general folks get way too hung up on "the best". On all but really cheap bikes all of the components typically work reasonably well and once you get to the mid price level they typically are excellent. For brakes in particular it seems to me as if most of the brakes on the market work great given proper adjustment and decent pads. That was not always the case, but I have to go all the way back to the steel rim and really wimpy flexible long reach brake days to remember really inadequate brakes.

I guess I can see disk brakes for folks who actually wear out rims frequently, but I suspect that most folks are like me in that rims probably last them a very long time. I did wear out a rim recently, but it probably had over 100,000 miles on it and most likely a lot more. Also it is pretty easy to lace on a new rim to an already built wheel. Last time I did it I think it took about 20 minutes.

Oh and BTW I like cantis just fine, but have been touring on dual pivot 1990-ish 105 road brakes lately and have found them quite adequate on my recent southern tier which did include a few mountain passes. Granted that was with a light gear load, but I am not a lightweight myself so the load probably was as much as some folks who pack a lot heavier than I do.

SJS Cycles has 700c Rigida Grizzly CSS (carbide) rims here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rigida-gr...ack-prod18886/

This is a 610g, 622 X 19 rim, but lacks the ability of the 520g Deep-V to carry the heat away from the brake track. Obviously any rim generates the same amount of heat for the same amount of stopping force. These rims won't wear like standard rims, but they may not keep your tires on any better, either. Still, they look to be heavy enough for a tandem or touring rim.