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Shimano hub advice

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Old 08-06-12, 09:02 PM
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CrazyLemurBoy
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Shimano hub advice

Hello all,

I have a Salsa Vaya that I am quite happy with. I bought it as a frameset and plopped a Nuvinci N360 on it. Now, I want to move to the N360 to an XC bike and put regular ole' gears on this bad boy to improve the efficiency (the N360 is a pig). I use this bike for touring only a few weeks of the year and commuting the rest of the year. I do not own a car.

Few things of note about me and my needs. I weigh between 210-230 lbs (lifetime moving average) and 6'4" so I need parts that will last. I have destroyed 2 wheelsets in the past, both 32/32 and machine built stock crap-o wheels. I like to go fast. I tend to plow through things if moving takes too much effort. I originally picked an IGH due to the strength of the rear wheel, but I'm confident a well built dished wheel can be nearly as strong as long as care is taken during the wheel build.

I want to use a Shimano hub. Now, which one to use? There are so many models, it makes my head spin. I could care less if you tell me to buy some high end Phil Wood hub, Chris King, etc. Shimano is <$80. The 'others' cost 4x as much before a real benefit is tangible to me. As I understand it, the venerable XT hubs now use a 14 mm aluminum axle and undersized bearings. I want a 10 mm steel axle and the larger 1/4" ball bearings. Cone bearings are fine. Now, the freehub body. I haven't fully wrecked one yet, but I'm sure that day is coming. My N360 freehub started to skip under my moose-like legs, so I want the 'high torque' freehub Shimano offers. Is it any different? Hell I don't know, I'm asking you. It looks like the new 2013 HB-M675 SLX Centerlock Rear Hub has most if not all of these requirements. If another hub works better, that's fine too. Looks and weight take a backseat to my other requirements.

Otherwise, here is the rest of my new drivetrain specs.
Crankset: Deore M590 48/36/26 175 mm
Bottom bracket: included hollowtech II
Chain: PC-890 SRAM
Shifters: friction barcon for front, 8 speed indexed barcon for rear, Shimano brand
Cables/housing: Jagwire ripcord housing/cable
Spokes: DT Alpine III
Rim: Velocity Chukker 700c
Cassette: HG40 11-34
Front derailler: FD-M591
Rear derailler: FD-M590 SGS

Another concern I have is the spoke hole size on the hub. Is it at least 2.5 mm? That is a listed requirement for the DT Alpine III spoke. I am open to other spokes but I want a STRONG spoke. I am currently using double butted spokes without issue, but this is on a non-dished wheel.
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Old 08-07-12, 11:04 AM
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egear
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Dude I am not really sure what you are plowing thru but I am about the same weight and I have never destroyed my Shimano 105 Hubs. My tour bike uses 105/36 attached to Salsa Delgado rims and I run fully loaded without issues. Thats front and rear panniers. Looking at your list I would
drop the deore M590 crank as its known for bending chain rings. Basically a crappy crankset. I see the 59x series listed for the front and rear DR.
I have seen afair amout of issues with these. Bearing related. Best to step up to the XT stuff. Steel axles, take a look at Formula hubs some have
steel axles. Universal cycles page is really helpful here as they list tons of hubs. Bencycles is also a helpful resource. Shimano like most manufacturers is always trying to save weight, sometimes its good and sometimes it's bad. My new XT M7xx series rear DR has no adjustment barrel on it because it save weight. Yes but I still need to adjust the cable tension from time to time.
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Old 08-07-12, 11:50 AM
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So you want to go from the CV IGH, back to a derailleur rig.... ?

IMHO, Above Deore LX/105 the gram accountants take over with light non steel axles..

Do it if you wish.. Alfine 8 speed IGH seem to be said to be OK..

IDK, derailleur bikes, I use friction not STI shifters myself.
.. though Sturmey AW3 speed is "indexed", I suppose.
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Old 08-07-12, 11:53 AM
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unterhausen
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isn't it only the XTR that has the aluminum axle, and the XT has steel? I figure that the XTR probably would do pretty well, the axles are oversize and there are plenty of bearings. I understand the reluctance to go with a weight-weenie approach on a touring bike though. However, this really may not be a weight weenie design, recent hubs have been going to a larger axle because they want to be able to accommodate through axles. This means the assembly is stiffer. If you look into bearing load analysis, the smaller bearings may actually have a higher load capacity. Not trying to change your mind, but I do think that there are good reasons for the newer designs. In fact, for touring a through axle design may have advantages. Of course, you need a frame that will take them, which is not at all common on touring bikes.
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Old 08-07-12, 12:17 PM
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On tour, trashed rims,crashes or such, often mean getting a new (whatever) wheel,
not rebuilding on the Higher End one..[take too much time]
.. so since mid range does the job, buying above that is shiny but maybe not required..
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Old 08-08-12, 02:26 PM
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CrazyLemurBoy
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Thanks for the advice all. I am moving away from my CVT hub on the road because the overall gear range is too low for the type of riding I like to do. I find myself constantly fiddling with the input gear ratio by swapping chainrings/cogs to get acceleration/climbing power or top end, or a mix of both. Either way, this system is always lacking on the road. I could use a front derailler and a compact crank to get around this, but at that point - why not just use regular gears? For offroad riding the gear range is adequate, and the lack of crap hanging off the bike is a huge benefit.

What Shimano groupset do you guys recommend for touring? SLX/LX? XT? I am willing to pay to get quality components, but I only want to pay as much as I have to. Also, do Shimano hubs have large enough flange holes for Alpine III spokes?
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Old 08-12-12, 06:28 PM
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J.C. Koto
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My LHT came stock with an XT M770 with the 14mm aluminum axle. The freehub assembly had a spectacular failure recently and obtaining a replacement was not available in a timely manner so I got a standard Deore M590 hub and rebuilt the wheel.

I don't recommend XT rear hubs since there are issues with the freehubs which accept 14mm axles. Probably great for a mountain bike to have the beefy axle, not so great for a touring bike where reliability of components and obtaining replacement parts is a necessity.

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Old 08-13-12, 05:04 AM
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CLB, I can't fault my M430 (Alivio) hubs equipped w/36 DT 2.0 spokes. I won't say it's the best crankset on the market, but my Sugino 22-32-44 works fine and the chainrings are replaceable.

No style points for the above components if that counts.

Brad
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Old 08-13-12, 07:05 AM
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Chris Pringle
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Originally Posted by egear View Post
Looking at your list I would drop the deore M590 crank as its known for bending chain rings. Basically a crappy crankset.
Lots of us use the M590 crankset for touring. No problem! Bent chainrings occur mostly with noobie MTBers who don't know how to shift properly and put a huge amount of torque on short but steep hills hence bending a chainring, normally the middle one. At any rate, this is a very easy and inexpensive part to replace (you could even upgrade later to a Race Face chainring) which doesn't take away from the overall value of this crankset. Take your pick: $90-$100 for this crankset or $330 for XT.

I see the 59x series listed for the front and rear DR. I have seen afair amout of issues with these.
When it comes to smooth-like-butter shifting, agree that Shimano XT derailleurs are hard to beat. Ask the bike shop to install a barrel adjustment doohickey on the rear derailleur cable (near the handlebar.) Easy breezy!

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 08-13-12 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 08-13-12, 10:02 AM
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Aside from the apparently weaker chainrings on this crankset, are there any other known issues? I considered LX/SLX crank as this is Shimano's 'trekking' groupset now, but it is literally over 2x the price!!! As Chris Pringle stated before I can purchase replacement rings which has to be done eventually anyways. I know that this crank has solid arms but I'm a 225 lb 6'4" male and weight on my bike has never been an issue. Thank you for urging me to upgrade to XT derailleurs, I will look into this. The hub still has me going back and forth. I hear that hubs above LX have improved seals on the cup n' cone bearings... could be wrong though. Deore 590 hubs seem to be recommended by many but I am also interested in the improved freehub body they spec on their '29'er' hubs because I am capable of mashing out considerable torque.
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Old 08-13-12, 10:16 AM
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Hear what you are saying, but soon you will be on set 3 of your wheels, and you could have bought White industries for all the moolah you will have spent, or the still superb Phil freewheel hubs. But I probably wouldn't put those on a commuter either. I have them on my touring bike though. The big problem I have with Shimano is I usually bought some NOS, or Nashbar, and they come out with new models driven by new fads all the time. So I can tell you what they did, but I have no idea what they will be like going forward. They make good hubs at around the LX level, but I get tired trying to keep up with them, and they also got kinda ugly.
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Old 08-13-12, 10:31 AM
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^^^^
Agree with Massive D. You're in the process of building some serious (bombproof!) wheelset with Velocity rims, triple-butted DT-Alpine Swiss, etc. The last part of the equation is your hubs. I, too, try to save money wherever I can, but when it comes to wheels I don't mess around anymore. I learned my lesson well several years ago while off-road touring in southwestern Colorado and my rear LX hub gave up one me. Upgraded to Chris King and no more problems ever again. So, either Chris King or Phil Wood (P.W. definitely the preferred choice for touring.) Yes, they're very pricey indeed but for someone with your body proportions and leg strength, definitely the way to go. Don't forget that if you ever run into issues with such caliber hubs, King or P.W. will stand behind their products. They will even help you years later. Try that with Shimano hubs!

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 08-13-12 at 10:44 AM.
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