fuzz2050

Have you tried some flared drops, like the On-One Midge, or any of that ilk? I've found they are excellent at technical terrain once you have them set up right.

rodar y rodar

Interresting. While I don`t ride anything truly technical, I always head for the drops when I see something nasty comming at me. The middle of the bar, where people usually rig those interrupter levers, is the last place I want my hands when it gets a bit gnarly.

I like the small feed bag idea. Wouldn`t mind trying that on my bike-in-progress build so I can maybe get away from the big sail of a bag I use on my current bike.

djb

re interruptor brakes, I've grown very fond of mine that came with my Tricross. Didnt think I would but after a while realized how handy they are on rough downhills, making things a lot easier on the wrists and hands. With soft pads replacing the stock pads, the interrupters then became properly useable as the pad change improved braking power by a good amount.
I realize that they take up space and can cause issues with barbags etc, but I really like them and have grown used to being able to brake from all hand positions easily. I can see how new riders to dropbars will feel more comfortable with them, but I've been riding drops for a good 35 years and still found them handy whether in rough stuff, around traffic or even in a group of riders whilst on the tops.

mmeiser

This is precisely it, if you're most comfortable on top of the bar when things get rough then your bar isn't high enough nor your drops splayed enough. It is actually very uncommon for most off-road bikes to have a head tube high enough for a drop bar. Hence people feel most comfortable on the top of the bar. A splayed drop bar cannot be compared to a regular drop bar, they are completely different beasts. Apples and oranges. They need to be set up completely different and ride completely different.

When you are in the drops on a splayed drop bar you should be about where you are when you're on a straight handlebar but with a more natural hand position. Perhaps just a hair lower and perhaps even wider then manny narrower mountain bars. It is a wide, stable, and comfortable stance when set up right. Perfect for rough and even steep terrain seated or standing. Very few 29r's can be set up this way even with long stems and steer tubes. It requires a very high head tube. The bar must be raised some 3-5" from that of a typical mountain bike straight bar.

The Fargo as seen in previous posts is one of the rare birds with such a geometry.

All I know is that when I ride my woodchipper splayed drop bar on my fargo I can sit almost bolt upright with my hands on the top of the bar. One handed it rides like a hourse and indeed that's what I call it with it's brooks saddle that makes those leather saddle squeeks, but when I'm in my drops it is a completely different beast. The splay causes the drop to be more radical then that of a typical drop bar. The hands not only move down, but furhter out then a typical drop. I'm low and stable and ready to attack a climb or pounce. I have noticed that I'm STILL a huge air damn when I'm in them, but then I do have an aerobar (sans elbow pads) for my bivy roll and I do make use of it for fighting headwinds.

I use my drops on my fargo far more then I've used any other drop. Indeed I love the setup so much... I tend to spend long hours at it. It's my leaning post, my bar, my table, my desk, my reins, my cockpit and much else. I make use of every position depending on mood, terrain and conition. It is hard if not impossible to say which position I use most. Perhaps it would be best to say how much I love to use all of the positions on my handlebar weather tooling around with a hand on the reins with not a care in the world to relaxing on the hoods, to damn near sleeping in the drops... or maybe I'm in the drops attacking a hill or flying down some singletrack.

BTW, these wood chipper / splayed handlebars when setup right also put your hands nearer the bar end shifters. This makes bar end shifters work better in the technical stuff since you barely have to reach for them if at all. I can actually hit mine with the heal of the palm without moving my hand or the pinkey... but... I still prefer and use STI shifters for even more responsive action on technical terrain. The STI are though a constant chore to keep clean and working 100%. They don't take the mud and dirt and rain as well. They also require canti brakes or road disc brakes. Luckily road disc brakes are becoming more popular. I have not had success with cable doublers, they introduce to much slop into the system. Since matching Avid bb7 road brakes with my sti I've been one happy camper. I will eventually have to replace my old STI levers with new or go back to bar end though. Some really dirty, dusty, muddy, rainy trips have worn them out to the point a parts bath will no longer bring them back.

Pardon my rambling so much. My fingers move faster then my tongue and allow my mind room to wander.

Bekologist

Technical trail downhills are pretty tough in the drops or even on the hoods for that matter, even if your bar is level with the saddle. I'm pretty seasoned (grizzled) with decades in the saddle, and am pretty darn comfortable pushing the limits of a drop bar bike.

Here's a video I made last month of me riding my dropbar TravelersCheck UL rig on a narrow, hillside trail. Riding on Panaracer street tires.



Once the angle gets steep, a riders' position on the bike and angle relative to the ground make it inordinately difficult to swing the front end deftly from that far out ahead of the bike.

I've run the original Bell Lap flared drops from Salsa for years, and really like them. nothing more radical.



Heading down steep stuff, the interruptors are a very nice plus. I will figure out a front bag system, that's easy.

djb

I dont ride really technical stuff with my Tricross, but I do like that using the interrupters, it seems to me anyway that its easier to keep my main body mass more rearward on steep downhills, which feels better for me in terms of not feeling as too much weight is forward (if I was in the drops or on the hoods for braking).

Bekologist

There may be a significant difference in rider positioning between Cross bikes and these new 29er adventure bike setups.

Ive never ridden a Fargo and its ilk, but i suspect cyclocross bike geometry allows a more forward leaning stance on the bars.

One of the reasons I spent time searching out a more traditional diamond frame big tire bike for offroad UL is the existing adventure 29'ers all looked like they place the rider in quite the upright position- like the bike below. comfortable, for sure, but not really the rider positioning I was looking for.



I wanted to avoid the Dursley Pedersen look.

bmike

I have mine up at saddle height. But I have also ridden it more 'road' or 'cross' style, with some drop.
I prefer the hooks where there are now, as I also use this as my mountain bike.
I ride the hoods and the hooks probably 60/40. Spend very little time on the tops, unless climbing or cruising along snacking / drinking.

The splay is excellent. So much that I moved from the Nitto Noodle on my IF to a Cowbell bar, as I missed the slight splay.
Cowbell for long road / dirt road stuff. Woodchipper for mixed terrain.
Far better than the Bell Lap. Much better without that dumb ergo bend, and the drop is not as extreme.


The stable by mbeganyi, on Flickr


Salsa Fargo, Woodchipper Setup by mbeganyi, on Flickr

Bekologist

You can see a noticable difference in frame angles between MBmikes' cross bike on the right in the upper photo, and the salsa bike. I wasn't sold on going with that geometry but no doubt it rides like a lawnchair, in a good way.

bmike

Bike in the right is an Indy Fab Ti Club Racer. Pretty much a sport touring road bike. I'd have to dig out the geometry, but think the ST is 73 and the head tube is 72.5. Trail is mid at 55 or 50 as I chose a fork so I could run a light front rack or bar bag.
I have no idea what you mean by 'rides like a lawnchair'. The sloping top tube on the Fargo is deceptive. Geo on the Fargo is on the Salsa site. Will have to see how they compare.

mrlassiter

Uhmm... wouldn't that one be OUL or Obscenely Ultra Light?

-mrlassiter

TheSergeant

I had a 2012 Fargo and liked it quite a bit. The reality was though that on road it was pretty sluggish, slow and heavy. Off-road it wasn't any more capable (IME at least) than my CX bike with 35c tires. I ended up selling it to purchase a 2012 Salsa Chili Con Crosso. That bike was even faster on pavement and for me and comparable in off-road ability. If I was going to ride anything that a CX bike couldn't handle I'd take my FS 26er anyway. I kept the CCC for awhile before upgrading to a BH RX1. Haven't looked back since. The Fargo was a fun bike while I had it but to be honest I really don't see it's place. Depending on the terrain I'd either go with a CX bike or a standard 29er like the El Mar or Sir9. Just my 2 cents.

Bekologist

A Spring update - using a banana bag doesn't interfere using interruptor levers. It sits on top of them. I might make a couple of foam spacers, but on some lightly technical terrain had no issues using the interruptor levers so i may not make the spacers at all.

the latest reiteration of the UL rig, looking remarkably like the stock UL rackless rig seen in picture after picture.

I did make my own feed bag out of a climbers chalkbag, the banana bag is an ancient side pocket of a rucksack, and on the bike i've hose clamped a third bottle cage under the down tube.

Today on a ride testing the rig, half loaded. 5 ounce bivy on order, spring trip next week.

BigAura

Nice! Looks great. Can you post a pack-list for this rig?

Bekologist

I'm not much of a guy to either make lists or weigh things or have spreadsheets of gear, but here's the basics, i guess:

----------------

SHELTER
tigoat ptarmigan bivy with mosquito netting
integral designs 5x8 sil tarp with attached guy lines & bivy

OR golite siltarp with mosquito skirt
tyvek groundsheet

------------------

thermarest neoair 3/4 length mattress
REI 40 degree down flash bag in MSR compression sack

-------------------

KITCHEN
folding trangia base
tinfoil windscreen
trangia
smallest trangia pot and lid
cup, spoon
folding opinel knife
stuff sack for food
bear rope
musette bag

-------------------------

CLOTHING

windstopper hat
driclime windshirt
down vest
rainjacket
wind pants, long johns and jogging shorts
- OR zip off pants (optional)
hawaiian or western LW shirt (optional)
extra socks
extra cycle short (optional)
long sleeve wool t shirt

---------------------

EXTRAS/ESSENTIALS


bike repair gear
toiletries
camera
first aid kit
trowel
headlamp
bandana
aquamira
compass

-----------------

I'd like to get a rear triangle bag, and perhaps one more climbers' chalkbag for use as a another feed bag, hanging off the back of the saddle next to the seat bag. This being my first foray into true rackless touring, i bought a camelbak over the winter to use with this rig, but if i need it remains to be seen.

bmike

rear triangle bag? full frame bag?

have a look at these for 'chalk bags' used as feedbags:

https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FCBF

might have to rework of modify the loops.

Bekologist

a bag that sits below the seat, inside the rear triangle. i have one for my soma, but it's jury rigged. rear triangle bags used to be manufactured. fits a tube and a little repair items, or a trangia and assorted small stuff.

i like climbers chalk bags, strung off the saddle, used them for years to haul bananas and gu packs. Those Jannds are a great price. I simply sew a loop of webbing on the bottoms, and string 2mm cord to the fork, tie the chalk bag loops to the stem and handlebar, tighten the cords, and voila - feedbag. works like a charm. the revelate design feedbags are engineered for food, though - they are quite dope.

bmike

i have a mountain feedbag, form before revelate bought them. i can't really use them on the fargo or IF (though I do, occasionally), as they annoy me when climbing.

hmmm, above tire, under saddle, inside frame?
i've seen these placed there:
https://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FTBII


and here is what i think is a custom one on a friend's photo stream:

Side by gplus.to/JonDoyle, on Flickr

Bekologist

yeah, that type of setup. those 26" LHTs have hella frame clearances. I have a jannd tube bag, but its too large for that bike as a rear triangle bag.

Bekologist

"that oatmeal tastes like ramen, my coffee tastes like oatmeal" -adventure in latest SUL trip.

djb

you said it, one could wedge a small child in there, although it would be kinda noisy, and frankly taking a ride is usually to get a break from the little blighters.

bmike

better than tasting like @$$ i guess.


i usually carry a spare cup. just got a totally overkill ti double wall cup from my sweeties.
that will go in the kit.

mmeiser

I don't think I posted this here. Seemed especially relevant with other recent contributions. And yes I did get in my first trip despite snow squalls. 180 miles from Toledo Ohio down to Athens for the gravel grouser classic. It took about 36 hours. And no this is not a card touring machine. I do fully self supported touring.



New UL touring and bikepacking rig by mmeiser2, on Flickr

Trek Cronus Ultimate carbon frame
Whiskey carbon wheels / DT 240hubs
Ultegra 34x50crank and front der
Shimano 105shifter
XT rear derailleur
Sram 12x32 cassette
Bontrager race lite handlebar, RXL stem, carbon seatpost
Time ATAC pedals
WTB Happy medium 40mm tires
AVID shortybrakes

And of course a full compliment of Revelate Designs Frame bags.

bicyclehobo

Funny you should mention using the chalk bags. I am in the process of doing exactly that.

https://bicyclehobo.com/diy-bikepacking-feedbags/

My prototype was made without sewing, but this weekend I will be slicing the webbing and sewing some velcro. I think that this prototype would work, but it's a bit ugly. I got the chalk bags for $6.99 apiece.

Carbonfiberboy 

I know, not really UL, but just weighed out gear for a cc tour (no camping). For our tandem team, everything = 25 lbs. That includes everything except the bare bike with cages, bottles, and pedals. We obviously save a little with 2 people and only one set of bike equipment and spares. A surprising amount of this is lights, batteries, cell, camera, chargers, spare tire, etc., IOW equipment that probably isn't necessary but increases our comfort with being out bike touring, never knowing for sure what's going to happen next. We're running 2 panniers on a Tubus SS rack. We don't particularly notice the windage of the panniers on the tandem. Different with a single bike.

Still, thought we did pretty well with keeping the weight down.