For 3 season backpacking trips, I use Snowpeak Litemax.
For longer winter trips, Primus Omnilite Ti.

If you have read some articles about stove efficiency and weight, you can't beat canister stoves.

I see. Thanks for correcting the semantics, I'm no native English speaker.
Regarding butane: doesn't it simply go from gas to liquid state by cooling it to 0°C (273.15 K) at atmospheric pressure (101325 Pa) ? Several sources mention a vapour pressure of 0 Pa in those conditions. Or in other words: it would become liquid again if it's a bit cold outside. To make it at least a bit ontopic: avoid pure butane as a fuel if you plan to cook on cold days.

Not at atmospheric pressure. In the canister, the fuel is under pressure to keep it liquid. That's why it hisses when you open the valve on the stove before you ignite it. It doesn't take much compression to liquefy butane but it does take some. The reason that butane doesn't do well in the cold is the same reason that alcohol and many other fuels don't do well in the cold, they need a little heat to volatilize.

Pressurized white gas doesn't because you are using air pressure to force the fuel from the can. There is usually a coil that runs through the burner that aids in the volatilization of the fuel which is why you have to prime liquid fuel stoves like the Whisperlite. The priming process simply heats the fuel in the line to make it into a vapor that can mix with oxygen to burn. Butane stoves actually cool as you use them so when it is cold, it's a bit harder to get the fuel into a volatile state. Alcohol also cools as it burns...that's why fire eaters can place soaked marbles in their mouths during shows. The marbles are actually cool to the touch because it take heat to get the liquid into a vapor state. That cools the marbles and makes them easy to handle.

Has anyone else had trouble finding iso butane canisters while on the road, and/or do you think they are becoming more commonplace? I noticed that a few Walmarts now carry them but others don't. On several of our more rural rides there were never any camping stores nearby and gas stations rarely carried the stuff although they would often carry Coleman white gas and propane. Because of that I would often take a second canister "just in case" and hated eating up pannier space with it, let alone the weight. The result of those trips is I now have several partially filled canisters around home that I'm not sure I could depend on for a week or two on the road.

According to the vapour pressure data I mentioned, there won't be any butane hissing out from your butane canister at 0°C (freezing) since all your butane will be in liquid form. You would need a pressure below atmospheric pressure inside the canister to volatilize the butane at 0°C. So pure butane would not work at all in a gas stove at said temperature. Of course, you could just strap you canister on your belly underneath your jacket to heat it up during the day as you would do with a small flask of alcohol at really low temperatures to make ignition easier (note the difference between making it easier and making it possible).
Luckily, for gas stove users, you can also buy gas canisters that don't contain only pure butane, e.g. mixed with propane which has a much higher vapour pressure (starts to become vapour at -42°C).

On one of my last winter camping trips, my alcohol stove worked without problems at -10°C, starting the fire was just a bit slower than usual (cheap lighter) but everything worked fine. There might be a reason why alcohol stoves are very popular in Scandinavia, including in military use...

Conclusion: if you choose the right gas canister (not the pure butane one) you'll be fine below 0°C, just like you would be fine with alcohol.

The heat output of alcohol is probably underappreciated. In the lab it was common practice to use a simple alcohol burner to bend glass tubing. It does help to use the right kind of alcohol though. Isopropyl alcohol isn't a fuel, and pure methanol is poor compared to ethanol. Cafeterias and restaurants use alcohol and butane stoves all the time for buffets because the combustion is less toxic.

And although gasoline, kerosene, propane and butane might have the potential to put out more heat - I don't necessarily want it. At home the only time I turn a burner on high is to boil water. Same thing when camping - and particularly when using light weight aluminum, titanium or stainless steel cookware. High heat with anything other than a very thick bottomed pot results in burned food - not cooked food. But it'll still boil a stovetop expresso coffeemaker easily.

And stoves are becoming increasingly difficult to travel with if your trip involves an airplane. Anything with a fuel bottle or pressurized tank simply isn't allowed at any airport I've been through. An alcohol stove is open, has no tank and gets through every time.

OP probably got more than he bargained for when asking this question. Stove questions on BF always descend into the same debate, usually led by cyccommute.

As someone whose home and possessions were destroyed by bushfires that killed more than 160 people, including 34 in a town nearby to me, and destroyed hundreds of homes and many thousands of hectares of bush and farmland in February 2009, I don't need to be lectured by you about damage to a 7,000 acre slice of forest..

You've also proved for us that you largely don't know what you are talking about with alcohol stoves.

I think I will leave it at that.

I've never had a problem with the Trangia burner getting through US, British, Australian, Hong Kong and Canadian security scans.

I do ensure that any residual meths is burnt off, then if there is any double, I wash out the burner with water.

I did have a problem in a Japanese airport, but the issue was not the burner, but a cigarette lighter packed in with the cookset... and I was able to carry that on board as hand luggage. Go figure.

Lol, boiling water is difficult with an alcohol stove....thanks for the chuckle!

A couple years ago I was on a tour with a fellow who had a Jet boil and he pooh-poohed my little cat stove and so we had a race to see who could bring 2 or 3 cups of water to boil soonest and it was darn near a draw. He might have won by few seconds but it wasn't much if any difference which surprised me as well.

Several posters have mentioned that alcohol stoves do not perform well in low temps, at high altitudes, or are even hot enough to boil water, of all claims...

I had no such problems with mine in Tibet, not too far from Mt. Everest. I am not sure what my exact altitude was but I would guess something like 4,000-4,500 meters, camping in an abandoned Nepalese fortress at the base of the last pass before leaving Tibet and entering Nepal.

I cooked dinner (boiled noodles with yak meat), breakfast (oatmeal with yak butter) and stale coffee (I think I bought it several months ago back in Qinghai province). No problems.

I think the myth that alcohol doesn't work well in cold/altitude comes from it not wanting to light when the fuel/burner is cold. This isnt much of a problem. Just put the burner with the fuel inside (you can do that with a Trangia!) in your pocket for a few minutes or keep it in your sleeping bag with you at night or something. Works fine.

On my trip across China, Tibet, Nepal, and India I carried a Trangia alcohol stove along with a Primus Omni fuel because everyone warned me that I would not be able to use my Trangia in Tibet and would have a hard time boiling water for drinking. Drinking water was never hard enough to come by that I had to resort to boiling river water and I never had that hard a time finding fuel for the stove. I think I used my Primus a grand total of once during the whole trip and it was just a demonstration for some monks who were curious. In fact, they offered to buy it off me! I should have sold it.... ended up mailing it home in Kathmandu.

Anyways, here is a link to my journal with pics and more info. You scroll down and go to "part 2" of that days entry to see the camping spot and the meal I made.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p...94&v=N4#bottom

Yikes! That was only a few year back Rowan! Even with insurance coverage - thats a lot to recover from!

I started with white gas stoves, then switched to Trangia, and eventually to pop can stoves. This fellow sells a set of 3 with pot stand, wind screen, and fuel bottle for $16.75 and free shipping, though his penny stove lacks the rim and simmer ring. The open spirit burner design is dead-simple to light and use, and you can remove the stand, set the pot on the stove to reduce the flame, and thus simmer with it. I often use two burners at once, too.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/903aaron903/...p2047675.l2562

When the fuel goes out, wait a few seconds , refill, and relight. No explosions here--these things aren't thick brass like the trangia and cool off extremely quickly, as do the wire cloth pot stands.

One hopes the discussion can continue being substantive.

Some good points have been raised. But there are some potentially misleading ones as well. The differences in heat output and boiling times are sometimes substantial. Even alcohol stove advocates and supporters will admit that alcohol stoves are probably not the best choice for some applications. For example, cooking for a family or a group. Cooking for one might be okay (depending) with the lower output. Two: sometimes, but not as likely. Three: not so much. Four or more: pretty much a no go.

Melting snow for drinking water: alcohol wouldn't be the first choice.

Purifying drinking water in active lifestyle quantities: ditto.

Boiling larger amounts of water, especially in cold weather....

Preparing big pots of food for an oversized hungry boy who has been exercizing all day.

Using cooking styles or techniques that demand higher flames.

Sometimes one wants a higher flame.

How many professional kitchens or chefs choose maximum flame limits that are alcohol stove-like? Or flame control, or even minimum flame size, that is alcohol stove-like?

I was engaged to a highly regarded gourmet vegetarian professional cook, and built a house and equipped a kitchen with her. She would never have accepted these limitations. All three -- maximum flame; minimum flame; and fine, easy and immediate controllability -- can be important.

Alcohol stoves simply would not have cut it. Literally so.

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Another point that could be misleading to the OP is the additives-in-gasoline issue.

Until I actually started using it (after speaking with MSR engineers about using gasoline), I had thought the additives issue was much more of an issue than it really is -- as many people do. If you are using the stoves outside (as you should be with any stove), it's basically a non-issue.

I only fully realized how much of a non-issue this actually is after cooking with it myself.

Thanks goes out to MSR for setting me straight on this.

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After using a variety of alcohol stoves, including Trangias, my appreciation for certain little inventions began to kindle. I kept wanting to design certain improvements, like better and finer and easier and more immediate flame control. Like a storage bottle that would connect directly to the stove, to avoid having to repeatedly refill, and so often, or waste or run out of fuel. And metering the fuel would also be nice. And lo and behold, the concept of a valve began to emerge. And simple, convenient ways to control those valves.... Maybe something like a simple dial, or a small knob that one could turn. And then -- lo and behold -- it seemed that some designers and engineers at MSR had also worked on exactly these sorts of ideas, and had already implemented them.

And had even done a pretty good job with it....

Along with Primus and some others....

And lo, behold: the things wished for were provided.

Including stronger heat when needed or simply wanted.

Yes, some Scandanavian designs are good. And the Trangias are among the best alcohol stoves. But it seems to me that Primus has done at least as well with their designs.

Which also are Scandanavian.

And there are non-Scandanavian designs that are good as well.

Not trying to be argumentative - I just thought that since this was the touring section in a bicycle forum - that the choice of a stove would be in that context. So the only time I'm personally seen one person cooking for five or six other cyclists was on a supported tour in which a couple vans carried everybodys luggage around as well as a couple massive propane operated BBQs.

And that still didn't happen in temperatures where anyone had to melt snow for drinking water. I have done winter camping myself - but touring on a bike in snow isn't my idea of safe. Cars are enough of an issue when the roads are clear. And offroad -I'd think cross country or back country skiis would be a much better choice than a bicycle.

So who actually does this?

While pasta is usually cooked with plenty of water & drained, one can also cook it with just enough water to cover & get absorbed. Maybe a bit starchy & not gourmet but not bad either. Folks with a home dehydrator can bring along good lightweight veggies/fruit to add vitamins & flavor. In warm weather once could bring dried legumes to sprout--some can be eaten raw or else cooked quickly.

I've done it. Others here have done it. And I'm sure there are additional examples online.

Our friend from Vladivostok has some videos that speak to the quetion.

There is also bike touring in Alaska and Siberia in winter.

I've also cooked for 1-4. So has GF. Don't really need the 5 and 6. Three is more than enough. Even two. Even one. And much of what was said applies there.

The same with rice. That's when the pot cosy (I have been using a touque recently) comes in handy for conserving fuel and water. Heat, boil water for a few minutes, then cover for 10-15 minutes while the second pot is used to cook the topping.

My primary pot for a long time was a stainless steel Sigg one that came with a black coating on it. Over a period of time, the Trangia pot that fitted inside it also became black. When I brought a new Trangia on this trip, I bought a can of spray oven black and coating the outside of the two aluminium pots, to improve heat absorption.

I also don't get the melting ice thing. If you haven't got enough water with you that you have to resort to melting ice, you're already in trouble as a bicycle tourist.

As to cooking larger meals with alcohol, it is well known in yachting that propane and similar are very dangerous because any leaking gas settles in the bilges, and can lead to an explosion with just a simple spark. So gimbled marine stoves often are powered by methylated spirits that serve extremely good duty in preparing cooked meals (in cast iron pans, even) for crews on both leisure cruisers and ocean racers.

Cooking for two? I do it when Machka and I are camping. I was converted to a proper Trangia on a Christmas bike trips when a friend cooked eggs and bacon for breakfast... for five people... with one stove.

And here are some of the results of my cooking with a Trangia:

To answer the first question, you just look in the stove. The alcohol level is visible even when burning.

The second question is a good safety concern. Depending on the stove it is possible for the flame to be nearly invisible in daylight. I just squirt a few drops of water in the burner. If it sizzle add a bit more water until it stops. The water presents no problem because unlike liquid fuels like gasoline, kerosine (paraffin) and Coleman fuel, alcohol instantly mixes with water and will still burn.

So I'm thinking 'efficient' and 'effective' may have as much to do with the operator and cooking practices as the equipment. Possibly some people only need large pots and high heat outputs because - they think they do.

Let me know how you feel about this article - after you try it - not just after you read it.
http://mobile.seriouseats.com/2010/0...-food-lab.html

It might be worth pointing out here that while the pool of alcohol in these stoves provides some heat, its primary function is to evaporate the alcohol between the two walls of the burner and create a jet flame through the holes around the rim.

If the jets aren't evident, then the burner isn't really functioning at its hottest -- as when wanting to boil water.

The ring provided by Trangia covers the jets so they are turned off, and the shutter on the ring provide additional control over the flame left in the centre pool. An operator does need some practice to manipulate the ring, usually with the grippers.

Most people who haven't used Trangias or become skilled in them assume they are like the burners under bain maries used to keep buffet food warm. They aren't the same, at least based on the ones I have seen.

Thanks for the link, but for me, there is nothing really new there. In fact, my first wife taught me to add a small amount of olive oil to the water to prevent the pasta from sticking, and that was with copious quantities of water. I don't use it when camp cooking.

Unless you have potable water handy, the less you use, the better. And you adapt your cooking needs to suit.

But again, we're talking about bicycle touring. For most of us, having perfect al dente pasta isn't an absolute requirement. At the end of a long day, just about any food will taste good.

I'm sure chefisaac can come to terms with some of the challenges that involves.

There are quite a few riders every year in the Iditarod Trail Invitational... Thanks to fat-tire bikes like the Surly Pugsley, Salsa Mukluk, etc. snow biking is becoming more popular.

I've been waiting for this confession from a fellow touring cyclist for a long time. I have often suspected it is the coffee junkies among us that have the "burning need for speed." Being a civilized tea drinker, which constitutes a much slower and delicate unfolding from kettle to cup, I am just not in a great hurry to boil water. When making tea you do not want to burn the water.

I once made a cat can stove that out performed my Trangia/Optimus gas conversion burner. It out performed my 220 volt - 50 amp electric range! It got hot enough to melt a hole in my wind screen. I'll take it car camping with the family, but I have no need for that kind of heat output on a solo tour.

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