Which "small contained wood burning stoves" are you referring to? Maybe we need a new thread for that though.

I've also been intrigued by what I have seen of these since they first appeared about a decade ago.

I don't see that there is a fire danger issue (the same as with all other proprietary stoves) so long as the flame remains contained, and that comes down to user competence.

But there is always a lot of fuel lying around in the form of small, dry twigs to feed such a stove. However, I think both weight and the inevitable wait to get up to sufficient heat might (note, I said, might) be an issue.

I think there have been several posters here use them over time, although I can't remember who.

This one is very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcFyzsnODJ8

I would be referring to the Bushbuddy (from backpackinglight forums) and there are a few others out there as well.

My expensive, and now unused, Evernew Appalachian cook set can be used as a wood stove. It's basically a TI cylinder with holes for airflow and big hole at the bottom so you can feed the fire with twigs. The big issues with wood burning stoves are the soot and the rate that they burn the small twigs that they use as fuel. IMHO they are not much of an improvement over simply getting a few stones together to hold your pot over a fire that you build underneath. Most organized or state campsite will have a firepit and I've never had any trouble finding enough wood on the ground to build a fire. I then wait for it to go down a bit and put my TI mug on the embers to boil water.

I don't know that he's completely wrong. Synthetic ethanol is produced from ethylene, which in turn is produced from ethane, which is either separated from natural gas or is a by-product of petroleum refining. I was under the impression that much of the alcohol intended for use as a solvent (like dentured alcohol found at the hardware store) came from synthetic ethanol.

I have no idea where alochol in its many guises in other countries comes from, though. I suppose much depends on prices for various commodities. Ethylene has other uses, so that has driven up the cost of synthetic ethanol.

Have you a source that updates the figure from 2003 that I posted?

And from what I gathered, much of the ethanol produced from ethylene is used for industrial feedstock, not put on the shelves of supermarkets and hardware and outdoor shops in North America.

I agree, the soots gets on everything and there will always be creosote build-up. Hot wood smoke hits metal container filled with cold water and you get creosote, just can't stand the smell of creosote, just horrible in my opinion. Couple rocks and some scooped coals from the campfire and away you go.

Hope the personality focus and negativity some unfortunately have can stop, and on-topic discussion and good will can prevail.

Regarding woodburning systems: I experimented with these quite a bit. They have their pros and cons. The cons can be largely overcome through better skills and practices.

IntenseAngler shows his DIY woodburners in action. Others also have videos at youtube.com on the topic.

However, once you learn a variety of improvised setups, and gain a little facility with these, they are quick and simple. And you don't need to carry them around.

These are both lighter and simpler than alcohol fuels and stove systems. And less bulky, easier to carry.

Your sources are for ethanol produced for fuel, which goes into the gas pump here in the US. Your first link is under US Department of Energy vehicles and fuel. The subsidies and tax structures for it are all driven by use of ethanol as a vehicle fuel.

I do not believe the denatured alcohol I buy at the hardware store comes from ethanol plants here in the midwest. I suppose I could write to Klean-Strip, but I don't know if they would answer my query. A cursory glance at an MSDS indicates that it is about half ethyl alcohol (ethanol) and half methanol: http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Super...%20-%20SLX.pdf

Right:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethano...lene_hydration

I guess it would be true that denatured ethanol you pick up at the hardware store is pretty likely to be produced this way. But I doubt it's written on the bottle one way or another. The overwhelming majority of ethanol is produced using renewable processes.

I guess we are destined to hover around the stove, topic, until Spring ,

when Y'all can, finally, go out on the Bike again, and ride somewhere.

On earlier trips, I would set up a small campfire and cook my food over that. It worked reasonably well, partly because I had been taught how to make a fire and keep it under control at all times and partly because it was easy to find small dead branches for fuel. One drawback is a fire takes a lot of time and attention. It takes a while to get the fire to the stage where it is good for cooking. Another drawback is the potential risk involved. Each summer, we have a lot of wildfires throughout the province which were caused by campers who left a campsite before the fire was completely out.

In the last decade, I have had campfires just two or three times while on bike trips, and only one of those was for cooking. A stove is a lot faster and easier.

There are many hidden costs, or not-immediately-obvious environmental consequences, including fuel usages, involved in the production of ethanol. Those who have studied this carefully seriously question its supposed cleanliness and superiority as a fuel.

Our application here uses very little, though.

Agreeable no-cooking-required foods are another option.

When I want to go light and am just boiling small amounts of water I often use a Swiss military surplus "Volcano" cookset paired with a pepsi-can Trangia type burner. It works well; that being said I was hampered this summer in Wyoming (backpacking) with this setup because of what I suspect (I was warned) was a batch of old fuel that had absorbed water, combined with altitudes over 10,000. I may try my hand at home brewing a lighter setup than this over the winter. I like the simplicity and what I percieve as, yes, the safety of an alcohol burner. That perception is colored by an experience with my Whisperlite.....an o-ring in the plastic pump sprung a leak when I was testing the stove on my back deck prior to a trip. The violence of the fire had to be seen to be believed, it looked like a mini oil rig disaster. I don't exaggerate when I say that if I did not have an extinguisher handy, which I ran dry, I might have lost my house. I have also had a Whisperlite pump break on me, besides the one that was destroyed in the deck fire.
The one pressurized liquid fuel stove I trust is my old-school dead simple Svea 123. I use it when with a group and using a bigger pot to boil a couple of liters at a time. It is only a bit heavier than the Whisperlite, all metal, and has served me since I was a Boy Scout 40 years ago (holy crap). It simmers well, burns hot when that's what you need, and the shiny brass 19th century look is damned cool.

In real life it would be pretty easy for everybody to reach a consensus that:

- Every design has advantages and disadvantages.
- No one design is best for every use.
- Different people have different personal preferences.
- Any stove will be unsafe if used stupidly.

On the internet? Massive uncontrollable flamewar. Alcohol stoves are definitely unsafe on bike forums. I look forward to an "alcohol stove" sticky thread like the one for bike helmets.

Just wanted to add, to #224 (! this thread really is getting a bit long in the tooth, as some others are also feeling), that I have seen people, including Btazilian Indians, who had such skills and facility with small fires, and cooking with small fires, who make me see these as a more viable option, at least in many camping situations, used responsibly.

I can see why some people have such an apprecation for no-cooking-required approaches, which can involve better foods and meals than most people realize.

The whole stove thing can get to be a bit much. Or, as Carla Bruni might put it, 'A Lot' -- just after singing Tres Noir: www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0rHRHICHCU


(if that doesn't work, it's 'Ullman as Carla Bruni' at www.youtube.com )

keepin it simple

Good reminder on the o-rings.

In the interest of balance: I've never had a problrm with them. I had a similar incident to yours, though, invloving an alcohol stove -- a similarly close call that almost cost me my house and surrounding forest.

It's probably wise to use any fire in an amply sized non-combustible area.

This thread has run its course. Time to close it.