One of the main reasons for the trailer idea was an inexpensive introduction into touring. As I was planning on local trips in the beginning to test out the feasibility, the trailer would allow me the opportunity to tour, without rear panniers hitting my ankles as I rotated the pedals. I am thinking the wheelbase on the Monkey Wards bike is not long enough. So the trailer would eliminate this issue. If I wanted to go with panniers, I have looked at cheap options such as Tidy Cat buckets, etc.... I was just worried about the heels hitting. A long wheel base bike set up for touring, like the Surly, would eliminate the alternative planning. But hey, that's part of the fun is it not?

Now the basket thing is intriguing as the backpack could possibly fit. I would have to break out the tape measure and give it a shot. The higher center of gravity would be differnt than bags on a Surly.

The thing with the ankles are different on a bike than walking the AT. On the AT, there are all kind of great things that twist your ankles unexpectantly such as roots, rocks and the occasional hole covered by leaves. Add to that unexpected twist of an additional 30 pounds on your back and the momentum going down hill and that ankle twist really smarts for a while An eight hour day walking in these conditions are different than the more stable platform of a bike pedal. The hip flexors, thighs and calves are strong. It is just the connecting parts of knees and ankles that are starting to show wear that doe not snap back too well from repeated twists and roll overs (at age 52). So if I am pulling a trailer, I think the ankles will survive as there is a stable platform under foot.

I have to say that the bike community is just as active on the forums, if not more so than our backpacking help communities. Thank you all for your great ideas. Y'all give me plenty to consider. When all this holiday stuff is over with, I hope to get and do some riding no matter if the temp is in the chilly range. I will let you know how I load the bike when I get out. Thanks once again.

Most trips will be on road and rail trail type of surfaces. If I am on a single track way back in the woods, I will be on foot.

Your other point is well taken in consideration of how many bikes are subject to theft. I eventually will end up with a Surly or some other touring specific bike. At that point I will add a a Bike Spy to the ensemble to protect my investment.

Took Medic Zero's advice and currently cruising Craig's List. See a 1996 Gary Fisher Wahoo. 26" wheels, 21 speed and 24 teeth on the granny ring. Any opinions? Bike is listed at $210.

Also see a Norco 21 speed for $40

Sorry a little slow about responding. Actually forgot about this post thanks to getting involved in several other things over the past couple of days and didn't even catch this post as I was looking through the message board and thankfully the weekly email caught me and reminded me about this post.

I haven't noticed any top heavy conditions at all. If you remember to pack the pack like you do for long distance hiking, heavy items on the bottom, then their is no reason you should see any top heavy problems. Think about it, why would you. Instead of having the gear attached to the sides of the bike you have the gear directly sitting over the center of the bike. The weight may not be as close to the ground but it is attached directly to the body, not the bike. It makes bike handle much easier. One bonus I found out in Hagarstown, MD, if you happen to run into a situation like I did, traffic jam he!! and a town with high curbs, you don't have to worry about dragging panniers(pain in the arses) on the curbs and you have a lot more room to lean to bike to get around semis that are parked in the road waiting for the traffic in front of them to move.

I will agree with bradtx, if you have the backpack fully loaded to the top it does make it a bit more difficult to see around the back side, then again if you are like most tourist you use a mirror so their is no reason to have to look behind you, just look in mirror.

One thing to consider also about using a trailer, how much does the trailer weigh? The extra weight to haul the backpack is more weight your going to have to carry up every hill that you climb.

One other thing I just thought about as I was looking through the weekly email updates from BF.net. You might want to do some looking around at the idea bikepacking. Search bikepacking on google...bikepack.net. I'm already looking at changing things around a bit and maybe doing some bikepacking or possible going all the way to bikepacking so I don't need the rack or the backpack. The only reason for the rack would be for the camera mount and I would probably have to put the laptop on the rack since it wouldn't fit anywhere else on the bike. I thought it might fit in a frame bag but it's to big even for my road frame.

Thanks Bikenh. Gives me some more info to review. Touch base w you in bait to discuss.

Full Count, Welcome to the forum, and hopefully touring on a bike:thumb:

It is true that you can tour on anything, and in about any configuration. However, some configurations make the trip more enjoyable.

This fellow was riding a 1946 German made bike. The bike was in good shape, and working well for him. He and his son were on a 3-4 day tour.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps6cac7f14.jpg

IMO- I would not consider carrying a backpack on my back while riding. That is the luxury of bike touring; you don't have to carry the load. I carry a pack quite a bit and know how the difference in weight affects my feet and legs. Imagine taking all the bumps and road irregularities on your sit bones with 30 pounds on your back. If you ride in an upright position all that weight is on your butt, and if you ride with drop bars the hands will have to support some of that extra weight. Out of the thousands of bike tourist I've seen over the years, I've only seen one or two people touring with a pack on their back. There is probably a good reason for this.

The same goes for carrying a loaded backpack on top your rear rack.

While I prefer panniers over a trailer, it is just personal preference. I have never toured with a trailer, but I use a Bike Friday trailer to haul groceries, and run errands. I usually pull about 50 lbs of groceries, which is about 15 pound more than I tour with. I have one good hill on the way to the store, and it is really hard with the trailer. Yesterday, I was going about 24 mph down the hill with the empty trailer when I hit a bump. The trailer flipped over giving me an exciting ride to the bottom. It didn't do the trailer much good either. That will not happen on a loaded tour. I think in your situation the Jamis and the trailer would be a good combination. If you decide to dive in and get the LHT later, the trailer is really good for hauling groceries! Good luck on your venture

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...istmastree.jpg

I took my first tour in my mid 50's. I do a week long tour every year but never go alone. I really think it would drive me nuts. I usually go with #3 son and a friend but I have also gone on supported tours. I bring camping equipment but always look for cheap motels. There is nothing like a hot shower and bed at my age.

Some of my tours are recorded HERE

.$02
find a bike you like to ride that can carry a pair of panniers, front or back,leave the trailer since enjoying riding will be a foundation before towing a load. That Huffy looks suspect, brakes, steel rims?
So instead of speccing out all kinds of load carrying details dial in your bottom bracket to seat height, seat to handlebar distance and handlebar to seat drop. The seat height is pretty much fixed as to what is ideal and may take awhile to accommodate if you're used to sitting on a bike seat and flat footed on the ground. The other dimensions can change over time as you adapt to riding.
Unfortunately most used bike are shocked hybrids and mtn bike with straight bars. Personally I thing straight bars are abominable wo some kind of bars ends or ergo grips. Conventional swept back 3spd bars and drop bars are more to my taste for comfortable hand positions.

Sorry I was tied up with work for the past three days and didn't see your post. The '96 Gary Fisher is probably in the ballpark of what you are looking for, it'd be helpful if we knew the exact model so we could look at pictures online and give you a few more pointers. Also Bikepedia can be a great resource if you know the year and model. Same with the Norco, in addition to what level components it has on it, to my mind what you are looking for is:

#1 is it your size? Find out your size and only get something that fits you. This might require some back and forth with Craigslist sellers and either instructing them how to measure the bike, find the size label if it has one, or being prepared to tell them it doesn't fit you if you end up checking it out in person and discover that. After that, what you are looking for is:

- a rigid fork
- eyelets at the bottom of the fork and at the rear dropouts. A double set of each is ideal, especially if you want fenders as well as racks.
- not the very lowest level of components (although this might be moot if you are transferring everything over from your Jamis)

Ideally if you can get a late 80's or early 90's mountain bike, some of these have longer chainstays, quite similar to touring geometry.

FWIW I payed $90 for a 1991 Sekai (rebadged Norco) MTB, that looked like it had never been ridden but had acquired a few scrapes being in a garage for the past 20 years. If the Norco is your size and has eyelets front and rear it'd probably suit your purposes for discovering whether touring is for you and you want to invest more in.

Couple more things: of course having the weight of your backpack on a rear rack isn't ideal. BUT, when I used to be a legal messenger I'd very commonly bungee one and even two (stacked) bankers boxes of documents on the rear rack of my bike. A bankers box full of documents is 48 pounds. Was it unstable? Somewhat, sure. Was I able to climb and descend hills in Seattle, in the rain, and take turns through intersections at a decent speed like this? Definitely less. Sure, it is less ideal than having the weight riding low in panniers on racks close to the center of the wheels, but its doable. I even extended the deck of my rear rack to support boxes by just strapping a board to it that stuck out about five inches past the end of the rack, to give the boxes more support, since the rack was a little short. If you DIY some sort of basket on top of a rear rack to hold your pack you might find you need to do something similar.

You mention kitty litter buckets. I've toured with these. Actually, the ones I used were a set of the nicely converted ones from Cobbworks, back when they were making them. I borrowed these from a friend because I didn't get the buckets I was converting done before my last tour. The buckets have some nice advantages for camping. I keep my food in them and it is safe from any animal smaller than a bear. Having two buckets means that wherever you stop you can have a stool and a small table. The plastic lids make okay cutting boards if you are cooking. I lucked out and the Cobbworks buckets hooks end up having the buckets hang at the same height as the deck of my rear rack, so I effectively have a rear platform that spans all that surface, which makes a nice place to put the lighter weight but bulky items like my sleeping pad, and I have room for the luxury of two small pillows up there too.

I actually tracked down one of the sources for these buckets ("4 gallon oyster buckets" IIRC) and ordered them directly from them, because they have a nice orange color, and my girlfriends preferred cat litter doesn't come in these containers. Even though they normally deal in much larger orders, they were more than happy to ship me a handful of them. I should have their contact info somewhere if anyone is interested.

Don't get too fixated on a particular bike on Craigslist. Every day more stuff appears there, if you have the time to be patient, chances are, just what you need will pop up in a few weeks.

This, first know the dimensions you need then put the bikes you find through that filter. Finding a great deal for X only matters if it fits.

http://www.bikeforums.net/webkit-fak...33A4/imagejpeg

Lee and Medic,

Doing exactly the things you recommended. Had myself measured and I need a 52 cm frame instead of the 54 that I thought. Looked at the Oxford and the Norco tonight. Had to tell them both no as one was too small and the other had too much rust on the frame. Found a his and hers matching set of Peugoet US Express bikes that I will be looking at tomorrow. Both have rear racks and fenders..., circa 88 or 89.

Medic, I am interested in the address of the bucket source. That was one of the motivating reasons for the trailer as I was going to place an ActionPacker or something similar for a lockable closure to keep skunks and mice out of the food / sweet smelling stuff and to create a table or chair.

Opinions on the Peugoet. http://charlottesville.craigslist.or...455754996.html

I've done a few trips with a backpack, and to be honest it's not that big a deal as far as being uncomfortable goes. Granted, I'm not as old as some of the people here, and I was using a modified external frame pack to give about an inch of space between the bag itself and my back for ventilation.

If you want to just store all your junk in a bag and keep it off your back, a friend of mine made a wooden box that holds his 80L pack that anchors to his rear rack via u-bolts.

I hadn't even thought about the advantage of external vs internal frame. Interesting thought. I'm looking at doing homemade equipment remake to lighten everything and to actually have some of the stuff I should have, like sleeping bag for late summer touring, in the first place. I've seen on backpackinglight.com forums some people making exernal frame packs but I'm so use to thinking of hiking instead of biking that I'm use to thinking more about the comfort and the maneuverability of the internal frames vs the external frames. Thanks for your post...definitely something to keep in mind.

I like the looks of the Peugeot, although I can't tell from the pictures whether it has eyelets at the bottom of the fork, or a second set of eyelets at the rear. Also, although it comes with a rear rack, that one may not be well suited to what you need. Having crossbars on the rack or some sort of hooks to attach the bottom securing points of panniers or buckets is ideal. That also doesn't look like the sturdiest of designs for a rear rack, it may be limited in the weight it can carry. You may find it swaying a lot under load. If the bike is within your budget and fits, don't let that dissuade you, you just should be aware that the rack may not be of use to you.

Looking at a couple of 88 Peugeot mountain bikes here: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177721 I'm liking what I see. Looks like two eyelets up front (heck, the one you're looking at already has fenders) and I really like the look of those brakes. They remind me of my Tektro 720's, pretty much maximum mechanical advantage with that near horizontal design.

I'd be tempted to bring a tape measure with me if you decide to check out that bike. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think you are hoping for chainstays closer to 19 inches rather than 17". A little googling (touring chainstay length) should confirm this and how to measure for it. Judging from the picture, I think this might be a good candidate for conversion though. It's a little hard to determine on that Peugeot because it's already got a rear fender in the space, but on my '88 GT the extra chainstay length is evident by the large gap between the seatpost tube and the rear wheel. The geometry of that Peugeot looks quite similar to me. Depending on how big your feet are and what you use for panniers you may still run into a heel strike issue. I had this problem with my size 12 feet and street shoes (non cycling specific, and hence a little bigger), but by using a Jannd Expedition rack I was able to shift my load a little further to the rear and eliminate heel strike issues. There are a few other racks out there that also do this.

I'll dig up the contact info for the company I got the buckets from and post it here.

Good hunting!

EDIT: Luckily the info was in my computerized records! I ordered nice orange buckets and lids from Affordable Buckets, LLC. The orange ones aren't shown on this webpage, but this is the page:
http://www.affordablebuckets.com/4galpails.html
They mention calling them about other colors, and on some of the other size buckets shown on the website you can see some of the other colors they have. Their website talks about larger quantities of buckets, but they were happy to ship me five of them (I want to make two pair, and had another project I want some orange plastic for). She warned me the shipping would be a little expensive, but the buckets were only $3.15 a piece, and the lids were $1.10 a piece. It cost almost another $16 to ship the five of them from Iowa to Seattle. It might be significantly cheaper for them to ship to you, not only are you closer, but on that page it say that they can ship them for an average $1.50-$2.50 each, but I suspect they mostly ship bulk. My receipt lists a Geri Webster, and I believe that is who I spoke to over the phone. I didn't see options for ordering just a handful of buckets online, but when I called them they were quite amenable. Their # is 319-647-8383

Like I said, our household doesn't buy anything that comes in these kinds of buckets, and although some business set them outside to be discarded or recycled, I haven't spotted any here in Seattle complete with the lids. I really like that mine are orange, and don't have advetising printed on them. On one side it does have the necessary legal warning against letting babies get trapped inside, but other than that it is just the plain plastic color. I plan on adding some reflective tape, but the orange is pretty bright on its own.

Here's a few pictures for inspiration (from the Pictures of your loaded touring rig thread):

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3...6640741060.jpg

This is my '88 GT Timberline mountain bike that I've converted for touring on my ride from Sacramento to Clear Lake (via Calistoga, 144 miles, more than half of that mountainous). Note that I am using the bucket panniers here, and since the lids are the same height as the deck of the rear rack it is effectively one large platform, which is handy for stowing larger awkward loads.

The load on my front rack is actually gifts for my niece and nephew and was only there for the first 12 miles which was bike path and city riding. Those gift wrapped boxes weigh almost nothing. Usually I leave that space clear for fresh food from farmers roadside stands, or beer or firewood the last few miles before I get to my destination for the night.


These next two photos show folks on tour with unconventional high and heavy rear loads:

http://imageshack.us/a/img233/8748/5...c4fec4fe7b.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img202/7641/6...df9cbcce9z.jpg

Medic zero,

I purchased the two Peugeot bicycles. They were in good shape and purchased from the original owner. He bought them in Nurenburg, Germany in '89. When I got back home, I dropped them off at my local bike shop for a tune up on both of them. I had measured my wife also and since we will be both riding, it will be nice to have a matched set.

When I got to my LBS, the owner informrd me that in Germany, bikes had to have lights, fenders, bell and a rear rack. Since they used to be Peugot dealers way back when, he believes he has a generator for my bike as it was missing along with the rear light lense. My wifes bike is complete and looks pristine ( generator powers the lights good).

Both bikes are US Express, built in France. The seat tubes measure where I need them for both of us. The water bottle connection points still have the plastic plugs in them, so th LBS is going to put water bottle racks on for me while they are there. I did not get a chance to measure the chain stays, but will do so on Tuesday when I pick them up. One thing I like the best are the tires. They seem beefy enough for a rail trail, but tread is not too aggressive for a smooth ride on pavement.

So it looks like I have solved my temporary ride issue until the day I go after a Surly. I had seen a Trek 520 in Roanoke for $200, but never got a confirmation that it was available for purchase, so the Peugoets now have a new home. If I knew how to post a picture from my I Pad, I would do so.

When I get the bike back, I will install my brand new Brooks B17 saddle. I did not get the leather treatment, but maybe my Obenaufs will work as good.

Thanks everyone for the help.

PS: thanks for the link to the buckets. Will contact them on Monday.

Sir:

I read most of your thread with interest because:

1. I live up in Williamsburg. Used to live down your way in Wythe.
2. I'm exactly your age and have been into touring for a few years.

I could at minimum give you some advice on a few reasonably close places to take shakedown tours. The back roads up on the Eastern Shore for instance are great. I also have a special love for old French bikes. I could PM you my email if you'd like - just let me know.

Sure, I would enjoy that.

Just catch me on my email. Fullcount.tom@gmail.com

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...ps780cd401.jpg

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...ps56027ff2.jpg

By the way, here are pictures of the his and her Peugoet bikes. They are presently at my LBS getting a tune up and once over. Can't wait to ride this weekend as the weather should be great.

Fullcount, You probably already know this, but for the first couple of trips concentrate on the fitment for both of y'all. Have fun.

Brad

IIRC, the OP commented that the original generator lights were working on these bikes. Originally I was going to comment on how weak these are in comparison with modern lights, but then I came across these screw in LED replacement bulbs. Anyone tried these?

http://www.compasscycle.com/lighting_led_tail_bulb.html