Deaver

Have been doing some research and have a question for those who have "been There"

I am considering building up a bike for touring. I have been looking at Disc Brake wheelsets and am planning on 700C size. Are 36 Spoked wheels a requirement by most opinions or can a beefy set of 32’s be used say with DT-Swiss Competition 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes. This affects my choice of hubs between Shimano XT (in 36H) or Shimano XTR (32H)

Thanks in advance

xyzzy834

The number of spokes depends on a number of things. How much do you weigh? How much equipment will you carry? What type of rims? What type of roads? How much safety factor do you require?

XT components are very nice. XTR components may be lighter, but they aren't any stronger than their XT counterparts.

jimblairo

IMO, XTR are not worth the price when used on a touring bike. I use XT on my 26 and 29 inch MTB.

Western Flyer 

Someone will say it so it might as well be me. I have never broken a spoke on a hand laced wheel and it is not for want of trying. I currently tour with 32f & 36r using Wheelsmith 2.0,1.7,2.0 spokes lace to Mavic 719 rims and Shimano 105 hubs (rear is 130mm wide). I have stopped carrying spare spokes save for one Kevlar fiber spoke. I spend a lot of loaded tour time on dirt Forest Service roads and even single track with that set up. My guess is you could ride the Himalaya Ridge Trail with XT hubs laced with 36 DT spokes.

fietsbob

Might crash and damage what you have, then you will get a machine built wheel to replace it,
which will be fine..

I managed to not damage my 48 spoke wheel. would have been a long time
sitting around waiting for a replacement.

rifraf

I personally use 36H rims and wouldnt want less but hey its your wheels. My take on it is that if you can seriously consider xtr for a touring hub then you can afford to get your wheels fixed on the odd occasion that you go touring and "maybe" drop a spoke or need the wheel trued. I want my wheels as bullet proof as possible within a balance of weight/strength/price so am opting for very strong CX-Ray spokes and 36H Velocity Dyad rims to go with my IGH and dynamo hubs. If I was asked, I'd advice a minimum of 36 spokes for a loaded touring bike. Good luck with the decision.

bradtx

Deaver, There are several levels of touring, which are roughly set by how much weight is to be carried and for how far the tour will be. The expedition level tourers can carry the most and it's prudent advice to suggest a minimum of 36 spokes per wheel. As always, your bike, your call.

Brad

BigBlueToe

My choice would be XT hubs and 36 spokes. I had a tour ruined by broken spokes and I'd rather have overkill to try and prevent a repeat occurence. I weigh 200 lbs. and carry a heavy load. Since I learned to build my own wheels I haven't broken a spokes (knock on wood!) If I weighed 160 lbs. I might consider 32h wheels, but probably not. 4 extra spokes don't weigh much, and I prefer overkill, right?

My local, trusted mechanic told me something similar to what another poster said: XTR hubs will be lighter but not stronger. He recommendd XT over XTR for my Great Divide bike.

staehpj1

Then again if you do need to replace a hub or rim 32 spoke ones are getting to be much easier to find. I would say go with 36 spokes if you will be loading them heavily, but consider 32 (or even 32 back 24 front) if you are light and or pack light.

cyccommute 

DT Competition aren't what I would call particularly "beefy". DT Alpine III, Wheelsmith DH13 or Sapim Strongs have a stronger head and really are "beefy". Even then, I'd still go with a 36 hole rim.

For the price of an XTR, you could also build with White Industries hubs. Superb hubs that are very smooth. They have maintenance free cartridge bearings. And, as a bonus, they are an US company.

For about $100 more, you could go with Phil Wood hubs. They don't have the titanium free hub that the White Industries and XTR hubs have but they are way easier to work on if you ever have to. And, again, they are a US company.

I'd still go with 36 holes.

LeeG

Deaver, with just the llimited information given I'd ask you to do a simple pro/con comparison. More spokes means less likelyhood of spoke breakage for the rear wheel. Fewer spokes and XTR hubs means you spend a lot more money for insignificant weight reduction in a touring application.

So if you want irrelevant weight savings for a touring application and sufficient durability we need more information. Basically choosing between 32 and 36 spokes misses about 90% of the relevant factors without knowing the load on the wheels and the rims. You could have an overbuilt 32 spoke wheel or an underbuilt 36 spoke wheel.

My $.02 if your riding is utilitarian and $200 can make the difference for other things throw the desire for fancy hubs and light weight out the window and get utilitarian durable wheels. Handspunwheels are a good value. So are PeterWhites wheels made with the cheapest hubs and rims. They will last just about as long as the expensive ones. But if you've got the bucks for the "ultimate" wheels and you ride unloaded and fast consider two sets of wheels, or two rear wheels if most of your touring load is on the rear.

Using xtr hubs is more a reflection of ones wallet than any pragmatic upgrade.

phillybill

mmmmm.......... and here I'm thinking that I can use my old hybrid wheels for a touring bike build this summer.... but I appear to be 4 spokes short.

LeeG

Who took those spokes!

Carbonfiberboy 

It depends a lot on the rim section. We tour on a tandem with an all-up touring weight of about 400 lbs. Our 36H Deep V rims don't even go out of true, much less break spokes. The depth of a rim radically changes how much a spoke is tensioned and detensioned as the loaded wheel rotates. So the number of spokes depends much more on the rim section than on the load carried. I'm another one who's never broken a spoke on either a tandem or single, running ordinary 28H box rims on some singles. Handbuilt wheels are the ticket, whatever you run.

Deaver

Folks, Many, Many thanks for your replies. You all have made some very valid points

I will go with 36 Spoke wheels as it does make the most sense. The reason I asked about the XTR Hubs is that I have a set given to me in the 32H version. I thought (Dreamed) that I could get away with using them, OK it was a real reach.

I will build the wheelset myself as I have been building my own wheels for quite some time. I had considered the velocity Dyads as a rim choice and in fact own a set using them. I think I would prefer a double eyelets, rim such as the Mavic 719 as the spoke bed should be a little stronger.

I am also a backpacker and have learned to pack light but the advantage of the 36 spokes gives me some cushion for durability.

Again, Thanks for taking your time to reply

staehpj1

I wouldn't buy the XTR hubs for touring, but if I had them I'd use them. That is unless 32 spokes was a problem for how heavy you plan to load the bike.

Shimagnolo

+1
I won't buy non-cartridge hubs anymore. They aren't worth the waste of time in maintenance. In my experience, a cartridge hub may need service about once per decade.

I put White hubs on the last bike I built a couple years ago, and am very happy with them.

I have a set of Phil hubs on another bike. The hubs were purchased 1997, and are now on their second bike. Both hubs have been serviced just once since new. IIRC, the specs on the White indicate they are about half weight of the Phils. The latter are on my touring bike, so weight is not a big issue.

LeeG

It all gets down to application/load. A 32 spoke front with 719 rim could be just fine. I'd still go for 36 on the rear.

fietsbob

Yea for Touring, current XTR is a misapplication, to much has gone into gram shaving..
go down market far enough to get a freehub with a Steel axle with 1/4" bearings.

Burton

Agree - the combined load and rider weight should set the decision, and a light rider carrying less than 40lbs would be fine with 26" tires and 32H wheelsets. Something that hasn't been brought up is that a wider tire transmits less stress through the spokes than a skinny high pressure tire. Personally I'd stay away from anything exotic like titanium. The wear characteristics aren't as good as steel.

ksisler

Deaver; Just noting that you didn't replay back with any of the requested factual data (rider weight, load weight, load positioning, type of touring, specifics on your bike, gearing, etc.), that would have allow more focused assistance. On the topic of the Divads... yes they are quite stout...I have a lot of them installed on my rolling toys in both 26" and 700C and both sizes in Tandem grade use. In a well built wheel they will take on almost anything. More so if you up the spoke count a bit (but without data can't be specific or focused on your worse case needs).

Burton

Interesting - so 32H rims are OK for DH and FR applications, but questionable for loaded touring. Those must be pretty rough roads!

hueyhoolihan

with modern rims, i wouldn't think twice about whether or not to use free XTR 32H hubs for touring. i would use them without reservation.

LeeG

It's not the road it's the load and duration of the ride. A 175lb rider out for the day with replacement wheel back home is a different situation than a 175lb rider with 30lbs of dead weight on the wheel and a blipped wheel keeps you from getting home let alone another wheel.

sstorkel

I bought XTR hubs for a song, laced them to Velocity Synergy OC rims with 32 DT Swiss Competition spokes and brass nipples. Built the wheels myself and have yet to have a major problem, though I'll admit that I tend to pack semi-light and stay on pavement. If you're really paranoid, upgrade from DT Swiss Competition spokes to the Alpine III that cyccommute mentioned.