Selecting a crankset
 

I'm not sure what best sub-forum would be for this question but "touring" is my best guess, given what I know about the equipment that is commonly used.

I'm getting a bike built from the frame-up and the last real component I need to choose is the crankset. I plan to use friction shifters so indexing compatibility is not an issue.

The two cranksets I've narrowed down to are the Deore Trekking 48/36/26 and the Sugino XD-2/XD600 46/36/24 / 46/36/26. Either will give me the gearing range I want so I'm looking solely at the effects of the crankset and bottom bracket on ride feel.

The Deore is an external BB Hollowtech crankset and the Sugino is square taper. Will there be a substantial difference in the feel of these two set-ups? Will the differences be too small to really notice?

My rides will be anthing from a few miles around the neighborhood to 20-50 mile group rides. I won't be hauling anything besides myself and typical items like water bottles, spare tube, etc...

No.

Yes.

Why are you using friction shifters?

You'd have to be ODC to notice any difference in ride or feel. Gear inches are gear inches. After that different spindle, bearing and crank designs are intended to make things lighter and in some extreme cases - stiffer. Chainrings on 6-7-8 speed cranks don't have to be quite as concentric as 9-10 speed set-ups, but what you're looking at should be equivalent to each other. The ramping pins on the Shimano are propriatory and work extremely well when used with their chains and cassettes, but if you are going to mix and match chain, cassette and chainrings anyway - it really doesn't matter.

I have the Sugino on my Gunnar Sport and a Deore crank on my LHT. Set up properly I don't think you would notice any difference, both work great. In touring I always feel that having potentially lower gears is always better, but with friction shifters I see no reason why you couldn't put a 22 on either one if you wanted.

What frame are you using?

no big difference, But the External bearing type crank has the tubular spindle fixed to the right crank arm

the bearings are exposed to stuff coming off the front wheel, mudguards will cut back on that,
get their mudflap down close to the ground...

feel? you will feel modern since it's the latest stuff..

square taper there are more competing brands, some of the better ones, have superior weather sealing..
they have to be chosen in consideration of what crank is chosen.

see all the what length do i get ?questions here , from those that think they are individual decisions..

I like the setup on my square taper BB to be 3rd ring edge over the fixed cup face,

the 3rd ring has ears coming down to almost touch , eliminating the possibility of the chain
getting wrapped around the BB spindle and getting jammed there..

Yes.

No.

Why are you using friction shifters?

I`m guessing the hollow BB Deore will be slightly lighter than Sugino + BB. On the other hand, since you prefer friction shifting, you might prefer the more "classic" look of the Sugino. The Deore looks modern without question. Availability might be an issue for you also. As far as I know, the Deore trekking cranks have never made it to North American distributors, so if you`re on this side, would need to be ordered from a European retailer (minor added time and expense) and replacement rings won`t be as easily available as for the 74/110 setup. My understanding is that Suginos and VO cranksets are as hard to source in Europe as the 4-arm trekking sets are in NA.

I am leaning toward a more classic look at this time but I was thinking there might be a noticeable difference in feel between the two. Amazon.com carries the trekking cranksets if anyone is interested in them.

The frame I'm using is an all-rounder called the Handsome Devil. I got the frame yesterday and will take it to the LBS this week for the initial steps of the build (primarily headset installation) and then I'll spend a few weeks collecting the last bits and pieces.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=305103

Get the Shimano. It will shift much better and parts are universally available.

The Sugino is designed for 8 speed chains and one of the spider arms is hidden under the crank arm and can be a bit of a trick to remove plus the outer chain ring is not universally available and small town LBS probably will not have the inner ring either.

I would always choose the internal tapered cartridge BB over the external bearing type for one reason: Durability.
In my experience, the former last about 10 years, while the latter last about *one* year.

I've done a couple of "retro" builds over the last year. In both cases I have gone with Shimano touring cranksets. If my memory serves me right, I believe you can only go as low as 24t with Sugino and 20t with Shimano. Possibly the only drawback with Shimano Deore M590 is the feeling of putting a "cheap" crankset on a nice build. In reality, however, the M590 has been working smoothly after a couple of thousand miles. At least in my eyes, it doesn't look out of place either. BTW, the M590's weight is very competitive, if that matters to you: 960 grams including the B.B. that comes with it (nice pluses in my book.) In the latest build, went with a rare NOS XT hollowtech II touring crankset (geared 48-36-26.) In regard to durability, there are several members here who attest putting 10-15K miles before replacing their hollowtech II BB. From previous research, it seems like one will indeed get more mileage out of a square taper, but again, the Hollowtech II is not too shabby. I find the Hollowtech II stuff really easy to install/replace (I travel with my bike quite a bit.)

I'll share a couple of pics of my retro builds with modern Shimano Hollowtech II cranksets below. BTW, the version in anodized silver cranks is the way to go for this type of builds, IMO.

Build with Deore M590 Crankset:
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/9056/rodutb4.jpg

Build with XT "Touring" Crankset:
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/1742/bl...etrorando1.jpg

I wish they hadn`t done that hidden bolt thing. I don`t think availability of 74-110 will be an issue anywhere. IMO, the shops all stock every bolt diameter you need... except in the tooth count you want :D

Nice looking bike. Either of those cranks would look like it belonged there, and either one will work just as well as the other and should last plenty long. If the prices for each are similar, and I imagine they are, just go for the one that agrees best with your eyeball. Asthetics is going to be the biggest difference.

(Especially if one of them happens to have a cool crown logo!)

Of course where you go will influence spare parts availability..
sub Saharan Africa, Argentine Pampas and Andes, maybe not so up to the minute in trends..
north "merca, western 'Yurp maybe so...

What do you me by this, fietsbob? Sugino's square taper BB is still easy to find. I believe same goes with finding replacement chainrings. Shimano, well, it's just ubiquitous ANYWHERE in the world. Hollowtech II is now found even in their low end line. So in this regard, it seems to me availability of spare parts is a moot point with either crankset.

all else you stay in one place for a while till the air freight truck arrives.

Go with the Deore for ease of installation. You probably won't feel much difference while riding but you'll notice a huge difference if you ever have to work on the units. The external bottom bracket is dead simple to install or remove. The square taper isn't.


All of the external bottom brackets I've seen are very well sealed. The LX is designed for off-road use where fenders aren't used. The bottom bracket sees all kinds of crud and the external units are well protected.

That's not been my experience. I'll agree that sealed bottom brackets can last forever but that goes for internal or external. Both units are extremely durable.

I would go with Shimano! I have had a 180mm XT hollowtech II crankset on my single speed mountain bike for a couple years, I've neglected it and have been quite hard on it, yet it still spins as freely and reliably as day one!! It's sealed very well and has been the most trouble free crankset I've ever used. Just sold my SS and the only thing I kept was the XT, I just put it on my cargo bike as it is so realiable and trouble free.

I would think the J tapered BB are readily available worldwide. I not so sure about Sugino 110-74 compact triple compatible chainrings. When I was still running a Sugino XD-600 the only source I found for compact triple replacement rings was the Canadian company Race Face, and that was only online. The RF outer had the chain guard pin placed to line up behind the crank arm of a standard compact system. The XD-600 and the XD-2 are a 4/5 spider design where one of the crank spider arms is hidden behind the crank arm and the guard pin is placed accordingly for this arrangement. I speak from experience that jamming your chain between the crank arm and spider is not fun on the road. You could probably tap a new pin in the appropriate spot if you happened to carry the correct drill and tap in your tool kit while touring.

To test my assertions, you might want to go into your LBS and see if they have any OME Sugino compact outer chainrings in house and 74mm inners for that matter? Then ask what they can offer you in 104/64 rings – outer, middle and inner? When Race Face went bankrupt a few years ago I switched to a standard Shimano Hollowtec crankset (SLX) with only smile as a result.:)

End note: Race Face was reorganized by some of its employees and I have changed my worn out OME SLX Shimano chainrings over to Race Face. RF makes some very nice, durable, smooth shifting rings.:thumb:

^^^^
Thank you for adding important value to the discussion. So, this is another big point in favor of Shimano Hollowtech II cranksets. I will be switching to Race Face chainrings when mine wear out. I've heard more than once that RF chainrings are nice and durable. MTBers love most of their product line-up.

Sugino 74&110 bcd chainrings are readily available in a wide range of teeth from any QBP-affiliated bike shop:

http://classic.aebike.com/product-li...03-m2007-qc30/

I've used RF rings and they did not impress me as anything special. Truvativ and Shimano rings are just as good and less expensive.

Any chainring machined out of 7075-T6 aluminum will be fine .. TA and Campag

and many others use that Alloy to make chainrings ..
just get the types ramps and lift pins if you need those,,

IMHO, your build would have been nicer with a Sugino crank, but it is a gorgeous bike. I'm particularly fond of the stem setup and of course... the frame. Nice job.

Thank you for the compliment, Gerv! The dream would have been a Herse crankset for this build, but at the end of the day function won over form (and budget reality sunk in!) It's hard to beat Shimano cranksets when it comes to their installation, ease of travel (it's coupled frame), availability of replacement parts worldwide (live in Mexico), etc.

I've got the XD2 46/36/24 on my Cannondale T1 and it works fine and lasts a long time. I wouldn't have a problem with going to a Modern Shimano setup either. Just make sure that your mechanic properly faces the bottom bracket shell before installing an external bottom bracket. If the faces are not perfectly parallel to each other then the bearings will probably wear out prematurely.

I use friction shifters on my bike. They are simple to install and use but were somewhat touchy when I was using a 10 spd cassette. I've since switched to a 9 spd and it seems to be less finicky. I went with friction shifting because I was doing a lot of mix and match with the drivetrain and friction shifting basically eliminates compatibility issues. Al

corwin1968, If you are going to use an indexed FD shifter, pick the Shimano. If not, pick whichever you prefer.

The external BB is fairly new and as such hasn't yet established a reputation for reliability amoung tourers, but there shouldn't be a problem IMHO. It is a PIA to R&R the chainrings on a Sugino crankset, but that's not an everyday task.

Brad