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-   -   Vigilance (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/904422-vigilance.html)

PlanoFuji 08-01-13 07:26 AM
MassiveD:

You said that you don't leave your bike, so I am curious, how do you do that when getting food or using the rest room?

ak08820 08-01-13 08:06 AM
Originally Posted by Northwestrider (Post 15902661)
I have never locked my bike while on tour, however a recent experience has driven home the idea that maybe I should. While having coffee the other day in a coffee shop. I noticed someone steal my Surly LHT, I stopped the thief after he had ridden the bike maybe 10 feet after which he left hurriedly in a waiting car. ( I had his license plate number in this, a very long story ). The Police said little could be done. The reason for the post however is to ask what other tourists do to prevent a bike theft, when leaving a hotel on a walk through a local community, or possibly while taking bus tour to a local attraction away from your tent, or even while sleeping in your tent. For the later I've thought of a bell , as well as a string attached to the tent to provide some warning. Idea's ?
Why did the police say that little could be done? If you have the lic. plate number, you could file a complaint and they can track down the culprit from the lic. plate.

Frame locks will not be effective when a thief with a van or pickup truck or a larger vehicle could carry the entire bike, without riding it. A cable lock attached to a pole or other stationary object is the best way to lock a bike. I used only a cheap frame lock on my bike in India - as everyone else did, because at that time everyone rode a bicycle or a scooter and very few people had cars. In the western world it is easy to steal a bike and carry it away in a vehicle.

I read a tour account where a young man on a tour from CA to VA lost his bike in Phoenix, AZ while visiting a convenience store. He had to buy a new one to continue.
The famous world traveler Heinz Stucke had his bike stolen a couple of times, too.

Northwestrider 08-01-13 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by ak08820 (Post 15912515)
Why did the police say that little could be done? If you have the lic. plate number, you could file a complaint and they can track down the culprit from the lic. plate.
Excellent question, one that perplexes me today. As there were three individuals in the car, that apparently complicates the issue. I was told by one cop that at most, this crime would be treated as a misdemeanor as it was ONLY attempted theft ( as I recovered my bike ). I asked if the money from a bank is recovered , is it then attempted theft as well ? No response.
In any case this event has made me even more vigilant than even before, so I consider myself lucky. Today while having my coffee, I had my bike locked to itself with a cable lock. At least it would slow the process down a bit.

Big Lew 08-01-13 04:39 PM
When the police make statements such as that one, it goes to show us the utter frustration they have with many cases once they go to the courts. The police can catch and arrest suspected perpetrators only to see them get off on some technicality or loophole their clever lawyers find, and it doesn't matter if it's in Canada or the USA.

ak08820 08-01-13 06:17 PM
When a thief is caught red handed and the lic plate of the getaway car is noted, he should be punished if the victim desires. There is no excuse to not to book a complaint on the ground of frustration, etc. Just the hassle of appearing in court should deter the thief in future. If cops don't cooperate, may be a local TV station should be contacted. Many have an advocate to deal with such officials, e.g., WB-11 in NYC area has "Help Me Howard". If it was a $100 X-mart bike, it would be a misdemeanor. Stealing a $4-5K bike is a major crime. No wonder they shot horse thieves in the old west.

spinnaker 08-01-13 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 15910923)
A custom bike can run to many thousands of dollars. Quality components can add up, especially paying full retail for them. Quality camping gear isn't cheap, either. Then you might have to factor in things such as a laptop or notebook computer, which with a decent processor, can run to several thousand dollars.

Maybe $5,000 for bike with LX or above components, decent wheels and tyres, racks, saddle, panniers and handlebar bag; $2,000 for camping gear including tent, down bag and decent mat, plus cooking gear (Ti anyone?); and $2,000 for computer and other electronic gizmos such as smartphone, GPS computer. Then quality clothing and rain gear at $600 or $700. There isn't much change out of $10,000.

Personally, I doubt that the stuff I tour with adds up to that. But even half that sure would put a decent sized hole in my discretionary spending for a while if I had to replace it all, let alone the time as well as the need to find alternative transport options to get home again.

And the emotional trauma is inestimable if you are in any way attached to your bike.
Well I say if you aren't willing to part with it non voluntarily then you shouldn't be riding it. If I got robbed on tour it would suck big time but the most I would be out is $2-$3k. I wouldn't be happy at all losing that much but it is not the end of the world. What would really hurt is having my vacation ruined.

CB HI 08-01-13 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by ak08820 (Post 15912515)
Why did the police say that little could be done?
Cop talk for, "We are too dam lazy to do our jobs."

I use a cable lock and the straps around the brake levers, plus keep the bicycle in sight as much as possible.

I like the bell idea during night camping.

Northwestrider 08-01-13 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15915249)

I like the bell idea during night camping.
+1

spinnaker 08-01-13 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15915249)
Cop talk for, "We are too dam lazy to do our jobs."

I use a cable lock and the straps around the brake levers, plus keep the bicycle in sight as much as possible.

I like the bell idea during night camping.
Bull. Real simple. OP had no proof. The plate number is meaningless. Even if the police could track down the car, there is a good chance it does not belong to the actual thief. The owner could just say he was not in the area or he might admit he was but was just driving by and op just grabbed his plate number. Even if the police could bring in the thief for the op to identify, he could simply say he grabbed it by mistake or some other excuse, like it was not him. The very low chance of prosecution combined with the low property value taken and the fact the theft was only attempted, just does not make it worth it to pursue. As a taxpayer, I would be pissed if the local police pursued such a case rather than protecting the community even if all that means is being on patrol.

Northwestrider 08-01-13 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by spinnaker (Post 15915733)
Bull. Real simple. OP had no proof. The plate number is meaningless. The very low chance of prosecution combined with the low property value taken and the fact the theft was only attempted,
I really have no problem with your post, but for one item. That is that it was an attempted theft. The cop I talked with described it as such as well. But my question to him was if a bank is robbed and the thief drops the money as he is leaving the bank, is it still attempted theft ? I really don't know, but my guess is that it would not be considered a miss demeanor , or would it ?

CB HI 08-01-13 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by spinnaker (Post 15915733)
Bull. Real simple. OP had no proof. The plate number is meaningless. Even if the police could track down the car, there is a good chance it does not belong to the actual thief. The owner could just say he was not in the area or he might admit he was but was just driving by and op just grabbed his plate number. Even if the police could bring in the thief for the op to identify, he could simply say he grabbed it by mistake or some other excuse, like it was not him. The very low chance of prosecution combined with the low property value taken and the fact the theft was only attempted, just does not make it worth it to pursue. As a taxpayer, I would be pissed if the local police pursued such a case rather than protecting the community even if all that means is being on patrol.
Yeah, no video from the McDonald's. Oh wait, the cops did not even check for that. No fingerprints on the bicycle. Oh wait, the cops did not even check for those either.

As soon as the thief removed the bicycle from the rack, it was a theft. Attempted theft would have been if the thief had attempted to cut a lock but failed. In that case they could prosecute for property damage, vandalism.

The cops have a good witness. Prosecutors here have gotten three convictions for Hit&Run, reckless endangerment and terroristic threatening on three different individuals on my testimony alone.

So the claim the cops had nothing to go on is BS.

You can bet if it was a cops bike, the thief would have been prosecuted.

CB HI 08-01-13 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Northwestrider (Post 15915938)
I really don't know, but my guess is that it would not be considered a misdemeanor , or would it ?
Depends on the value of your bicycle and the local laws. I found a reference that stated the normal legal amount for a theft to jump to a felony is $700 in 2012.

3speed 08-02-13 02:56 AM
^ +1 All the stuff he said.

Northwestrider, I think you should post a formal complaint about the situation and demand that they at least Act like they're attempting to do something about it.

And sadly, it's a good thing you didn't tackle and beat the thief like he deserved. I probably would have ended up in jail if it had been me in your situation. In our screwed up system, You'd most likely be the one in trouble for assaulting the thief...

Northwestrider 08-02-13 07:28 AM
Originally Posted by 3speed (Post 15916241)
^ +1 All the stuff he said.

Northwestrider, I think you should post a formal complaint about the situation and demand that they at least Act like they're attempting to do something about it.
And sadly, it's a good thing you didn't tackle and beat the thief like he deserved.
If he had not gotten off my bike, tackling was the plan. However as soon as he dropped the loot, ( my bike ) I felt the reward/gain situation didn't justify further physical action. I suppose that is the way I feel about further police action as well at this point. If all that can be done is a slap on the wrist, then it is I that will suffer the most anguish.

spinnaker 08-02-13 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Northwestrider (Post 15915938)
I really have no problem with your post, but for one item. That is that it was an attempted theft. The cop I talked with described it as such as well. But my question to him was if a bank is robbed and the thief drops the money as he is leaving the bank, is it still attempted theft ? I really don't know, but my guess is that it would not be considered a miss demeanor , or would it ?
Big difference between a bank robbery and someone making off with your bike. For one the value. That cop probably thinks your bike is somewhere around a $100. Plus a robbery usually means a weapon or at least a threat of a weapon. That is a very serious charge all by itself. Then there is the fact the bank is an established business and you are transient. There is the simple fact that strangers get no love but more important an established business is more likely going to press charges and pursue prosecution after the police do all of the work to bring the guy to justice. There is a good chance that the strange would not bother, too much hassle to come back to town for the trail, specifically if they had no real loss.

CB HI 08-03-13 12:16 AM
^^
So there is a different definition of theft between money and an expensive bicycle - Surly LHT?

Many bank robbers get less than a Surly LHT. Cop had no response to OPs bank question because cop was caught in his BS.

Medic Zero 08-03-13 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by Steve B. (Post 15903523)
One trick is to loop the helmet straps thru the frame and F wheel, then hook it closed. It makes it tougher to just roll away.
I do this when I occasionally stop at a walk-up restaurant. I'm only a few feet away, but it is a high pedestrian traffic area, if someone saw me dismount or made me as the bike owner and waited until I was distracted ordering/paying/getting my food they could make off with it otherwise. The helmet strap clipping the front wheel to the frame is just enough to slow them down so I'd catch them if they tried.

I've only done a few short tours. The last two, I brought a medium sized u-lock with me. Next chance I get to tour (likely next summer sadly), I'm tempted to spray paint a Palmy black. I also plan on mounting a ring lock.

Medic Zero 08-03-13 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by ak08820 (Post 15912515)
Why did the police say that little could be done? If you have the lic. plate number, you could file a complaint and they can track down the culprit from the lic. plate.

Frame locks will not be effective when a thief with a van or pickup truck or a larger vehicle could carry the entire bike, without riding it. A cable lock attached to a pole or other stationary object is the best way to lock a bike. I used only a cheap frame lock on my bike in India - as everyone else did, because at that time everyone rode a bicycle or a scooter and very few people had cars. In the western world it is easy to steal a bike and carry it away in a vehicle.

I read a tour account where a young man on a tour from CA to VA lost his bike in Phoenix, AZ while visiting a convenience store. He had to buy a new one to continue.
The famous world traveler Heinz Stucke had his bike stolen a couple of times, too.
In my experience, they (the police) just don't care. I was purposely hit by a car, with multiple witnesses who had the license plate number and the responding police officer refused to do anything. He said I could follow up with Homicide, who told me they were too busy (in Seattle!) to help with mere attempted homicide! They ever so helpfully pointed to a giant stack of mug shot books and offered for me to go through them to see if I could ID the guy. When I asked them to just look up his address from the license plate number they refused.

Lots of cops in the US are jerks.

Machka 08-03-13 02:08 AM
Thankfully, the police officers we've been working with during the loss and recovery of Machak (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Machak-is-Back!) have been great! :)

ak08820 08-03-13 05:38 AM
Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15920074)
^^
So there is a different definition of theft between money and an expensive bicycle - Surly LHT?

Many bank robbers get less than a Surly LHT. Cop had no response to OPs bank question because cop was caught in his BS.
The difference is in the method - robbery Vs. theft. Most bank robberies involve a real or fake threat to use a weapon, here the bike was stolen without the use of any weapon which probably makes it a lesser offense in the eyes of the law.

However, the reluctance by the law to pursue the perp is a bigger offense on society. As I suggested earlier, a public advocate like a TV station should be sought out.

spinnaker 08-03-13 06:48 AM
Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15920074)
^^
So there is a different definition of theft between money and an expensive bicycle - Surly LHT?

Many bank robbers get less than a Surly LHT. Cop had no response to OPs bank question because cop was caught in his BS.
How do the police know it is an expensive bicycle? For all they know it s a $100 wallmart special.

PlanoFuji 08-03-13 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by Medic Zero (Post 15920155)
In my experience, they (the police) just don't care. I was purposely hit by a car, with multiple witnesses who had the license plate number and the responding police officer refused to do anything. He said I could follow up with Homicide, who told me they were too busy (in Seattle!) to help with mere attempted homicide! They ever so helpfully pointed to a giant stack of mug shot books and offered for me to go through them to see if I could ID the guy. When I asked them to just look up his address from the license plate number they refused.

Lots of cops in the US are jerks.
That is when you bump it up the chain of command; all the while documenting who your talking to and what responses you are getting. Eventually you'll get to the DA; whom if they also refuse to respond now gives you ample evidence to go to a local news outlet (you did keep the records I just suggested right?) and/or a civil attorney.

The police are not the final arbiter, only the first ones you should contact about criminal activity.

Medic Zero 08-03-13 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15920592)
That is when you bump it up the chain of command; all the while documenting who your talking to and what responses you are getting. Eventually you'll get to the DA; whom if they also refuse to respond now gives you ample evidence to go to a local news outlet (you did keep the records I just suggested right?) and/or a civil attorney.

The police are not the final arbiter, only the first ones you should contact about criminal activity.
This was about a decade ago.

CB HI 08-03-13 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by spinnaker (Post 15920404)
How do the police know it is an expensive bicycle? For all they know it s a $100 wallmart special.
If the cops did not ask the OP the value of the property involved in the theft, then they are the dumbest cops I have ever heard of.

Basic cop 101, determine value of the property.

Northwestrider 08-03-13 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by CB HI (Post 15921413)
If the cops did not ask the OP the value of the property involved in the theft, then they are the dumbest cops I have ever heard of.
No one asked the value of the bike, police or operator. In any case, it's a lesson learned for me. I'm using a cable lock when ever I'm off the bike, and back it up with a steady eye.


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