I believe that load security on the rear rack is less dependent on what you use to secure the load with, but on the configuration of your load, and the relationship of the racktop load with the rack and panniers.

Trying to secure a sleeping bag, Thermarest (or some type of sleeping pad), tent, and poles to the rear rack when they are all separate, is a challenge however you secure the items to the rack. The same items contained in a dry bag or rack pack are relatively easy to secure, and are protected from the elements.

I also think if the rackpack sits on the panniers and the rack it is a pretty solid platform, and there is not much room for anything to shift. Placing the rackpack across the rack so that the panniers stabilize it is good way to go.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...panniers-1.jpg

If you look through the "Loaded Touring Bicycles" site you will see every configuration imaginable, Some are neatly packed, and some bikes look like they just came from a yard sale. It is not hard to guess which loads are the most stable, stay dry in the rain, and are easier to manage at train stations, and airports.

http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded

I too had a bungee cord pop off my rear rack the other day but was able to stop in time before it could get caught in my spokes. I found some 24" bungee cords made by Erickson (found them on Amazon) that have carabiners instead of hooks and have been using them for several days now. I think they work great and I no longer worry about a bungee cord popping off.

I used to have a basket on the front of my bike that I used to things around campus, with a bungee net to stretch over the top to hold stuff in. One morning the basket was empty while I was riding between two classes, and I rode off a curb. The bounce from the curve caused one edge of the net to unhook and fall down into the front wheel, where it got sucked into the brakes and completely locked up. Fortunately, I was going slow enough that I didn't fly over the handlebars, but my shin had a very sudden and painful encounter with my spiky mountain bike pedals, and I had to abandon the bike locked to a lamppost and come back to untangle it later so that I wouldn't miss class!

FWIW , If You sew.. a combination of buckles and straps is useful ..

I made a double loop of shock cord in the middle of a strap with a buckle..

the loop snubs the strap to keep it tight.

One accident in 20yrs is a testimony to their utility more than danger.

i wonder how many folks have started out in the morning with a loose quick release, brake cable, etc.

I've had a bungee get caught in my spokes a couple of times. Once I stopped, the other time, the bungee cord broke. I'm sure there are some that wouldn't have, though.

I've used these recently with success. I like the fact that they they stretch but are adjustable in length and therefore adjustable in tension. If I'm worried about the hooks coming free, I simply use a small piece of duct tape to bind the hook to my rack.... peace of mind.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...Szdqtk4emhKVZM

The thing about bungees is that they aren't ideal. It should be possible to make something custom that works better. But the bungees is a non-custom off the rack item that would be my second choice over something that was purpose built. I think fearmongering about bungees getting caught in the spokes doesn't serve any particular purpose.

The thing about rigging is that little subtle death traps are everywhere. Keeping it simple and proven is part of the key. After bungees, we get not one universally superior product we all agree on, but 20. Each one will seem safer because it would take maybe 20 times the accidents to raise the alarm to the level we get from the more popular bungee. There really isn't any reason to believe that bungees can't be improved on, but there isn't any reason to believe the new products will be safer until years have gone by and millions of miles cycled. I would have no problem believing that there are more convenient and high quality products that provide a "better user experience". But whether they will never lock up a wheel is another mater.

Also, the OP mentions an oversight, but the other thing is the size of the package. I mostly bungee a tent and sleeping bags, these items are pretty easy to get into a routine with compared to oddball packages. I do use bungees on those also while touring. Normally stuff like surplus food, but that is where the bungee versatility comes in.

I read this thread when it started and thought to myself "What a bunch of boneheads to be so careless to have a bungee get caught in their spokes. I am way too careful for something like this to happen to me." Well, it happened to me about 2 weeks ago as a cord came loose on my front rack somehow and wrapped my front wheel a couple of turns before I could get stopped. This sort of thing really could happen to anyone...

Bungee cords have too many disadvantages. You can be careful and still have problems. Straps are safer. They're useful on ferries and I've a tied a few together to put my food up.

I wrap the strap one time around the rack tubing (see photo) and the extra length around the seat post with enough give to strap my tent down. I never have to remove it and it won't fall in the wheel. At worse, it will rub on the tire if I forget to close the clip and ride without a load, but it won't catch in the spokes.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=349267

I've lost stuff off the rack while using bungees and never known it until too late. Those who watched the video of monsieur Plaine
http://vimeo.com/groups/wereldfietser/videos/58201809
will remember this extremely experienced (over 1M k.) gentleman losing bungeed stuff off his rack.

My favorite bonehead maneuver was 33yrs ago when I bundled up a thin t-shirt under my saddle and strapped it against my spare tube with a toe strap . Heading out of town and down a hill towards the bridge the shirt got caught under the brake bridge locking the rear wheel at 25mph and I got launched over the curb and down an embankment about 50'. Didn't do that again.

I like the looks of these! Can you tell us more about them? Either a brand/model name or where you got them?

Thanks!

I'm nearly sold, my question is - how does that rackpack weigh? I'm no weight weenie, but one made out of Ortlieb material seems unnecessarily heavy.

I can see no disadvantage with bungee cords that aren't shared by straps. Straps can come loose and get caught in a wheel just as easily as any bungee cord. Your wrapping technique could still result in the strap falling off enough to get caught in the spokes.

Straps have a couple of disadvantages that aren't shared with bungees. It's easy to release tension on a strap by lifting the buckle. You so it when you want to adjust the length of the strap. And, as I've pointed out above, straps don't have any elasticity. A strap caught in a wheel will stop the wheel quickly. A bungee is elastic and takes more time to reach the point where it would stop a wheel. dwmckee's example would have ended with him launched over the bars if it were a strap caught in the spokes. He could do the same with a bungee but it takes a bit more time. There's a reason that you can go bungee jumping but not 'strap' jumping.

It doesn't. The strap rattles off the top of the spokes but it's not long enough to get caught. I've experienced it many times. In other words, I'm not very careful. The thing is if a strap gets caught in the wheel, it's my fault. You can be careful with a bungee cord and the hooks can still slip off, or deform and get caught in the spokes. Bungees aren't ajustable (well, except the one posted by Robow). They are PITA to use. I can "unstrap" the stuff on the rack easily. With a bungee, you need to unhook it at the bottom of the rack, or slip the stuff off the rack, leaving a loose bungee cord.

Not sure how that makes them dangerous.

That's pure speculation. And and much more time? Half a second? One second?

I'm not bungee jumping, I'm straping a load on a bicycle rack. Truck drivers don't bungee stuff on flatbeds. They use straps.

I found them at our Walmart. The Highland Adjustable Fatstrap Bungee Cord features a 3/4" wide strap that provides a strong, secure hold and will not damage or dig into your cargo. The cord adjusts from 10" - 45" and offers durable coated-steel hooks. Black/orange.

Features and Benefits
- Adjusts from 10" - 45" for a custom hold
- 3/4" wide strap provides a strong, secure hold and will not damage or dig into your cargo
- Coated-steel hooks offer durability
- Black/orange

http://www.amazon.com/Highland-94149.../dp/B001IGGIOW

hope I'm not repeating myself here, but my one concern with straps is that if stuff held on a rack with straps shift, the tension of the strap will go away, possibly allowing more shifting-hence more looseness in the strap. At this point, the strap could then end up becoming loose enough and dangle down into the wheel. If there is a hook involved, that could end up in the wheel, or the cinching "ends" of the straps.

I can see the advantages of both straps and bungees, and can see the advantage of having a one single large bag like Doug uses to keep all the various doo-dads in one contained unit, so less chance of stuff shifting and or becoming loose.

Again, my personal experience has been only bungeeing a tent to the rear rack, and I'm not doing long trips where bungee stretching and all that would come into play over time.

Look at your picture again. If you forgot to fasten the strap, it could easily unwrap and hang down enough to catch the spokes of the wheel. The wheel will come to a dead stop in very short order since there is very little stretch in the strap. Your buckle can easily catch a spoke and has enough strength to stop the wheel. Hook a part of the buckle over one of the spokes and test it your self.

Bungee cords don't need to be adjustable because they are self adjusting. They stretch to fit. Of course you should choose ones that are close to the size that you need and not ones that are too long but that's not that big of a problem. As for the hooks, I don't use that kind nor would I suggest anyone doing so for a couple of reasons. First, the hooks can...and do...wear holes in bags and/or equipment. Second, like you said, they can slip and deform. They can also get caught in spokes but so can a strap buckle. Third, a tightly stretched bungee has a lot of energy. A hook style flings the hook pretty well if it happens to slip while you are putting it on or taking it off. I've been hit in the face and it hurts.

I use ball bungees which are shorter, don't a hook to rack the same way and they don't have a hook that get's flung up into the air at about eye level if one slips from your grasp. I use 4 of them for each corner of the rack and they are fastened in the middle over what I have on the rack like this

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...TheCorps15.jpg

That doesn't make them dangerous but it doesn't make them as good at stabilizing the load

dwmckee said he got a couple of wraps around the wheel before it stopped it. acantor started this thread and said that he had enough time to stop before anything bad happened. Western Flyer had this to say about straps:

Bungees will stretch a lot before they break and/or stop the wheel. Straps don't stretch under that kind of load.

They use straps that have ratchets on them that allow them to put a lot of stress on the straps and lock the straps in place. They don't depend on friction buckles to hold the load.

.. they used to make them out of the Plus type cordura thickly coated material , I have a small size red one..

want lighter? lots of other dry bags out there, usually end loading..

** data is available from them..

I *have* forgotten to fasten the strap several times and it never fell in the spokes. That's exactly why I wrap it around the tube like that. It works. I've used bungees before and I find straps way more convenient and safe.

The more important questions are, "Is that Pocahontas or Sacaqawea and who is the fellow on the right" ?

Here ya go . . .

http://www.cargogear.com/imagelibrar...bunColorsB.jpg

The carabiners lock securely to the rack so cords stay put.

I rig those bungee nets with zipties and biners. IME the plastic biners make less noise.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=349359

The same could be said by bungee cord users.