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4120 Cromoly vs. Tange 5: which frame to build for fully-loaded?

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4120 Cromoly vs. Tange 5: which frame to build for fully-loaded?

Old 12-16-13, 02:51 PM
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kebbs
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4120 Cromoly vs. Tange 5: which frame to build for fully-loaded?

Hello everyone! I am building a dedicated tourer and I have two MTB frames I need to settle on. Here are the specs:

Peugeot Mackenzie
4120 Cromoly plain gauge tubing
Direct Brazing

Bianchi Ocelot
Tange 5 plain gauge tubing
Welded

Both frames have same eyelets, room for two bottlecages, and are of more or less same weight.

Which one of the two frames would be better suited for fully-loaded touring? I'm 240 lbs and will haul about 40 lbs of gear. Length will range from few weeks to few months. Possibility of a kid trailer.

I know there are other variables to consider, but I simply wish to know whether one frame is significantly better than the other.

Thanks!
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Old 12-16-13, 02:54 PM
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I'd pick the one that looks prettier. I'd also pick the one that has the better geometry for touring. Chain stay length and wheel base both matter when it comes to racks and panniers.
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Old 12-16-13, 03:22 PM
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Touring is an activity , a bike you tour on is a tool to pursue that activity.

An industrial standard alloy number for a common Crome Moly steel tubing is 4130.

Tange is a company, JPN, that makes Tubing to make Bike frames out of .
5 is their name for a product they make , it is in house jargon,

not a universal, designation, recognized used by any steel mill .


http://www.bianchiusa.com/archives/2...untain/ocelot/

this is a mountainbike, from 2006, with a suspension fork, suspension forks are unnecessary

and many consider a hindrance touring on the road.. frame is actually 7005 aluminum.

Google shows The Mackenzie from Peugeot's Automobile production.

some used in Rally car racing competitions..
https://www.google.com/search?q=Peug...2F%3B800%3B531

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-16-13 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 12-16-13, 04:28 PM
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kebbs, Both frames are chromoly, just a different name. Tange is a respected bicycle tubing manufacturer. Any tubing manufacturer label on the Pug?

Brad
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Old 12-16-13, 07:33 PM
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Hi Brad, no tubing manufacturer on the Peugeot. Just says "4120 Cromoly Plain Gauge Tubing".
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Old 12-16-13, 07:35 PM
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This Bianchi is a 90's model, without suspension and is most definitely steel, namely Tange 5 MTB plain gauge tubing.
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Old 12-16-13, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kebbs View Post
Hi Brad, no tubing manufacturer on the Peugeot. Just says "4120 Cromoly Plain Gauge Tubing".
The only thing I can think of is to measure the chain stay's length on both bicycles (center of BB shell to center of drop out) and whichever is longer would be my choice for the build. Second to choosing the better fitting frame.

Brad
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Old 12-17-13, 07:16 AM
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I suspect the steel tubing in them is probably pretty much the same. I would go for the longest wheelbase/chainstays first. If they are the same, the one you like the color of.

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Old 12-17-13, 10:22 AM
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If you may use drop handlebars, consider length of top tube as well. Shorter top tubes will likely provide a better fit with drop bars.
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Old 12-17-13, 09:10 PM
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Thanks for all your input - useful as always
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Old 12-17-13, 10:38 PM
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Are the forks the same? We have a 90's era Spec. Hard Rock hybrid steel frame and the heavy tubular forks are really harsh, no give at all.
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Old 12-18-13, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
Are the forks the same? We have a 90's era Spec. Hard Rock hybrid steel frame and the heavy tubular forks are really harsh, no give at all.
These forks are typical for a non suspended mountain bike, hybrid and touring bicycle.

Brad

Last edited by bradtx; 12-18-13 at 05:39 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-21-13, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kebbs View Post
Hello everyone! I am building a dedicated tourer and I have two MTB frames I need to settle on. Here are the specs:

Peugeot Mackenzie
4120 Cromoly plain gauge tubing
Direct Brazing

Bianchi Ocelot
Tange 5 plain gauge tubing
Welded

Both frames have same eyelets, room for two bottlecages, and are of more or less same weight.

Which one of the two frames would be better suited for fully-loaded touring? I'm 240 lbs and will haul about 40 lbs of gear. Length will range from few weeks to few months. Possibility of a kid trailer.

I know there are other variables to consider, but I simply wish to know whether one frame is significantly better than the other.

Thanks!
I have a mini velo with a "Tange" steel frame and it's actually kinda heavy and overbuilt. I also have a bike with 4130 chromoly and it feels lighter. Which alloy is going to be better on a touring frame? Who knows? Alot of touring frames are made with 4130 so it's a proven formula. If that Bianchi frame is built like my mini velo, it will give you good service.
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Old 12-27-13, 04:51 PM
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Thanks for the answers everyone. So nobody thinks that the no-name 4130 Cromoly (brazed-on) is significantly weaker than the Tange MTB frame?
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Old 12-31-13, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
The only thing I can think of is to measure the chain stay's length on both bicycles (center of BB shell to center of drop out) and whichever is longer would be my choice for the build. Second to choosing the better fitting frame.

Brad
I upgraded a 1990's non-suspension mountain bike, a Specialized Rockhopper which has a cromoly frame, to be my touring/camping bike. It has a chainstay length 17". Looking at the Surly website (http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker/geometry) I see that the LHT has chainstay length 18". I bought a really strong rear rack made by Axiom out of stainless steel, which has 2 mounting plates for the bottom of the rack to attach to the lug on the bike frame. One of them extends the rack 3" farther to the rear from the lug hole, like this shows:
Now, compared with a LHT that has a straight-down mounting rack geometry like this one:
my bike has the equivalent of 2" more chainstay length than the Surly LHT (17" + 3" extension = 20" vs Surly 18").
So, my point is that you have to consider your rack and pannier options, not just the chainstay dimension you've got.
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