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Rim not boxed

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Old 12-29-13, 10:57 AM
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koolerb
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Rim not boxed

I have a mismatched set of wheels I was planning on using for my touring build going together in the next month or so. The rear rim has those little steel collars at each spoke, and they were starting to rust so disassembled the wheel to clean them up really good. It a 23mm rim so I thought good for a wider tire, 32mm/35mm. But when I got this thing apart I realized its a single wall rim, not boxed. All the mfg/brand information is worn off the two stickers on the rim so I don't know what this is. Should I even bother building this thing back up? I was doing most of this build with good quality repurposed parts from other bikes and a craglist triple crankset so bike was going to be completed at a super low price. A new wheel/rim will increase my build cost by 25/35%. But,,, I don't want to put time into a rear wheel that just going to be crap either. Is a single wall aluminum rim too big a read flag to ignore?
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Old 12-29-13, 11:20 AM
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robow
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Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
I Is a single wall aluminum rim too big a read flag to ignore?
If you plan to do any loaded touring with that rear wheel at all, I personally wouldn't use it. It might work but why take a chance. Pick up a Mavic A119 or Sun Rhino lite if cost is a consideration.
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Old 12-29-13, 11:40 AM
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LeeG
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Not necessarily but actual rust or frozen spokes isn't a good sign. Lots of folks toured on single wall SuperChampion 58 and other Al rims before box rims became common. My concern would be whether the rim is true to begin with and whether you're reusing old spokes and nipples. The other thing is that if the old rim has flat interior flange and not a lip you should stick to tires with wired beads.

unfortunately new spokes and the cheapest new rim will get you to the price of the cheapest replacement wheel that you can buy and re tension for about $50.

anyway to answer your question box isn't the be all and end all for durability compared to how well it's built.

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Old 12-29-13, 11:41 AM
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there have been millions of bicycling touring miles made successfully on non-boxed rims. but one would have to be of a "certain age" to know or care

it would help to have a pic.

my araya 1 1/4" w/o is example of a sturdy one, but probably not the one you are concerned about.

if you are looking to go inexpensive it pays to wait till it fails. i passed by more than a few bike shops and even had to use one on my last tour, so i wouldn't worry..
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Old 12-29-13, 11:52 AM
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So, rather than pre-worrying, just bring enough funds along on the tour,

to replace things that fail, or are damaged during the tour.

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Old 12-29-13, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan View Post
there have been millions of bicycling touring miles made successfully on non-boxed rims. but one would have to be of a "certain age" to know or care

..
Or even, non-stainless spokes, horrors!
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Old 12-29-13, 05:43 PM
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There's a reason that most every rim offered anymore is "boxed", it's an inherently stronger design. I don't know where you guys tour but where I often find myself, it's not like there is a competent bike shop every so many miles, so for me to start out on a tour thinking, oh I'll just replace it when I have problems is not always feasible. For instance, this summer I lost a non-drive side crank arm bolt while touring, it must have just backed out over time, a damn crank arm bolt! Never in my life ever had one loosen up but it did and I was screwed, couldn't ride but with one pedal. Nearest bike shop supposedly 50 miles away, nearest hardware store open on a Sunday where I could hopefully rig something, almost the same distance. Enough stuff like this happens where you can't predict it, why start out in the beginning with parts you aren't confident about?

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Old 12-29-13, 05:50 PM
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I'd become skeptical of them but about 14 years ago made an emergency front wheel purchase of a 36-hole Araya single wall laced to 105 hub. That wheel is still running strong and stays true quite nicely.

EDIT: I also have run CX tire on it for gravel road rides, so it's seen some rough miles, too.

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Old 12-29-13, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
, why start out in the beginning with parts you aren't confident about?

I agree but that isn't necessarily a function of a particular design element but the specific condition of the wheel or components in question. A 40 yr old Araya 600g single wall rim would make a better touring rim than 410g box rim. It's funny how rim weights haven't changed much over the years.
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Old 12-30-13, 05:23 AM
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disassembling a wheel is not a good idea. Doesn't sound like much of a wheel anyway, this is probably a good time to replace it
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Old 12-31-13, 03:19 PM
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I rebuilt it. By rebuilt I mean, disassembled, scrubbed the rust off the eyelets, polished the hub, cleaned everything really good, and reassembled. No, wasn't much of a wheel to start with, but I got some good wheel building practice. I'm going to be staying in NY State for all my touring next year so wont ever be too far from a bike shop. If I have to replace a wheel on the road, so be it. That said I think this wheel is going to work just fine. And I stayed in budget. Thanks again!
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Old 12-31-13, 06:10 PM
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Is the front wheel a boxed design and does it have the same spoke number as the rear? If yes to both, and seeing your into a wheel build anyway, just swap the two over. That way the "stronger" rim will be under the heaviest part of the bike. Front wheels rarely present significant issues.

But making a judgment with information on the brand of rim and/or whether it was the original wheel on the bike, which hasn't been identified in this thread either... is somewhat difficult.

In addition, was the wheel in its original form fairly straight and the wear from the brake pads minimal? If so, that might indicate the rim is still sound enough to recycle.
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Old 12-31-13, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
I agree but that isn't necessarily a function of a particular design element but the specific condition of the wheel or components in question. A 40 yr old Araya 600g single wall rim would make a better touring rim than 410g box rim. It's funny how rim weights haven't changed much over the years.
My interpretation is that they haven't simply because they have to be stronger to cope with the fewer spokes. The current trend is 32H... try getting 36H hubs, for instance, from mainstream suppliers these days. There's also that trend to "more aero" with deeper V rims (which to me just present additional liabilities in cross winds).

The same extrusion is used for most of a maker's particular model of rims, just the drillings are different.
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Old 12-31-13, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
My interpretation is that they haven't simply because they have to be stronger to cope with the fewer spokes.
I'm sure you're correct because Sheldon claimed the same thing when we spoke on the subject one time.
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Old 01-01-14, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by koolerb View Post
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I rebuilt it. By rebuilt I mean, disassembled, scrubbed the rust off the eyelets, polished the hub, cleaned everything really good, and reassembled. No, wasn't much of a wheel to start with, but I got some good wheel building practice. I'm going to be staying in NY State for all my touring next year so wont ever be too far from a bike shop. If I have to replace a wheel on the road, so be it. That said I think this wheel is going to work just fine. And I stayed in budget. Thanks again!
Your learning experience rebuilding that wheel is much more valuable than any particular construction.
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Old 01-01-14, 09:24 AM
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koolerb
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Is the front wheel a boxed design and does it have the same spoke number as the rear? If yes to both, and seeing your into a wheel build anyway, just swap the two over. That way the "stronger" rim will be under the heaviest part of the bike. Front wheels rarely present significant issues.

But making a judgment with information on the brand of rim and/or whether it was the original wheel on the bike, which hasn't been identified in this thread either... is somewhat difficult.

In addition, was the wheel in its original form fairly straight and the wear from the brake pads minimal? If so, that might indicate the rim is still sound enough to recycle.
I know I said they were a mismatched set but maybe not. After a closer look, the anodizing is a lot darker on the front rim, the rear rim has eyelets, the front does not, the rear rim is stamped "Rigida Made in USA", I didn't see a stamp on the front; but the rims themselves appear to be the same shape and size, and same spoke count. They're a little different, but I'll bet they were the set that came with the bike new back in 1995 +/-. They were straight, and this bike wasn't used much so wear is minimal.
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Old 01-01-14, 09:31 AM
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With the old single wall you're positioning your ride into failing going over a short drop eg a 3" curbing. Simply down when tired/avoiding a pothole/wind/traffic....

Correcting the dent ? Time....lose of tire rubber...downtime.

The complete double wall wheel with 2.0 spokes costs $100 mail odor.
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