another what rack question
 

yup another one...

I'm getting close to buying my racks for a week long tour on the katy trail in MO... I'm riding a 700c Surly Disc trucker.

I'd like to stay around $100 front and back so that kicks out some of the higher end racks.

at the moment up front I'm looking at the Salsa Down Under Rack up front and out back a Blackburn TRX-1 Ultimate Touring Rack.

could I go better for the money? reviews seem good on both but wanted some feedback from actual touring riders :)

thanks
mark

Bohr Yeh (sp?) or some of the Blackburn Knockoffs will work if money is tight..

I spent relative to having done many years ago .. 70s actual blackburn .. a solid aluminum rod build.

still have them ..

When tour 100% reliability in the long run was my goal, I called Bruce Gordon. in the mid 80's..

I heard the Salsa front rack had issues, but don't remember what they were. Probably a good idea to Google it before buying.

I have had great success with the standard Blackburn Expedition racks. I considered the TRX-1 but noticed it looks like it has a single connection to the brake bridge instead of the braze-ons on the seat stays. Otherwise it looks like a strong rack. You might also look at the Axiom racks. I have one of their rear racks and am quite happy with it. For the front I have a Jandd lowrider which is quite serviceable but nothing fancy. Good luck on you selections.

There are a bunch of them out there. The rear racks are easy to find and just about any of them work. My personal preference is to use ones that have mounting points more like a Tubus than a Blackburn. The flat metal rack stay type mounts on the Blackburn don't allow for too much side-to-side adjustment of the rack stays while racks with round upper stays are more adjustable. For the Blackburn type racks, you can go with Blackburn, Delta, Topeak, Avenir, Planet Bike Eco rack and a bunch of others. The round type stays come on Tubus (of course), Planet Bike K.O.K.O., Axiom, Racktime and others. The KOKO and Axiom racks are good inexpensive racks.

There are fewer front racks. The Salsa looks okay but for $25 to $40 more, you can get a Tubus Tara which, in my opinion, puts the others to shame.

I've also had good service out of Blackburn racks. I have an Expedition rack that I used for touring on my around town bike. It hauls much heavier loads home from the store than it ever did on a tour.

I also still have the first rack I ever bought back in the early 70's, a Blackburn. It is still doing its job on my daughter's commuting bike.

This Blackburn rack is probably 40-years old. The one-point brake bridge attachment point is surprisingly sturdy.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...a832a62f61.jpg

I'd look for some second hand Tubus if I could.
Touring stuff doesnt come up as often as a lot of gear, but it does come up.
Only a thought....

I'm thinking about getting the Jandd Expedition. I like that it has a center strip, and is wide and long. since my wheels are 700cc I figure why not utilize as much real estate as possible over that gigantic wheel?

All the other racks I've looked into, including the ones listed above have been pretty thin. AFAIK all the Tubus stuff is like 4 inches wide! That is so thin!

The Jandd is 6inches wide by 16.75 inches long. Seems like a much better do, no ?

with a 4 inch wide rack like the tubus, i dont even feel like I could put my backpack on that thing for a jot down to the library!

any thoughts?

For under a $100 total for both front and rear look at Topeak, either the Super Tourist DX or the Explorer, both have 55 pound weight carrying limit, these run about $35 to $48 on Amazon. For the front the Voyager Low Rider front rack has a 30 pound weight carrying limit and only cost $20 on Amazon.

I use Tubus but they'll cost more than $100...try double and a bit more; the earlier mentioned Tara front rack is $105 by itself.

The Jandd isn't a bad rack but the both combine will cost around $170, and for about another $40 you could get the superior Tubus.

I also still have the first rack I ever bought back in the early 70's, a Blackburn. It is still doing its job on my daughter's commuting bike.

This Blackburn rack is probably 40-years old. The one-point brake bridge attachment point is surprisingly sturdy.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...a832a62f61.jpg[/QUOTE]

I've got the same exact Blackburn rack and the front rack version on my errand beater bike. Been using them since the 70s for everything from touring to commuting to errands. Although the rear rack is slightly out of square from getting run down from behind (the Fuji died but the rack and I lived). I bent the rear rack back and am still using it with no problems.

I've also got a similar Blackburn rear rack from the early 80s that attaches to the seat stay rack braze-ons that became my touring rack and currently resides on my mountain bike.

I recently got a Surly LHT with 700C wheels and decided to go with the Jandd Expedition rear rack and Extreme front rack. They're both great racks and I'm happy with them so far. I like the fact that the rear rack is so long and keeps the panniers well back from my heel. although I'm happy with it, the front rack was a pain in the neck to install. In hindsight I should have gone with the Jandd tall front rack to get more clearance over the wheel, the regular rack I have is literally right on top of the fender with zero clearance and it can't go up any farther without the lower pannier rails interfering with the brakes.

I know they are a little pricey, but I highly recommend the Tubus racks. I went with the Vega and Tara for my Surly Cross Check. I've got experience with various racks on my commuter bikes and get a lot of service out of them. However, the Tubus racks are lightweight, well-designed, and install like spreading butter. I can turn my CC from a club ride bike to full-on touring bike in about 15 mins.

For my first tours including a TA and other long tours, I used a Blackburn EX-1 rear and Nashbar or Performance low rider clone. That was fairly heavily loaded and they worked out fine. Since I have been packing lighter and using a road bike I switched to Axiom racks and really like them. They are actually much sturdier than I need for my light packing style and would be fine with a heavy load. Tubus racks are nice but the price hit is a bit much when much cheaper racks are quite adequate.

Just food for thought, but 50-60 pounds is a heck of a lot of gear. I find more like 1/4 of that is plenty to camp and cook in comfort even with some extras like my fly rod. It is much more pleasant to ride a very lightly loaded bike and to have a reduced pile of gear to dig through for stuff. If you have any inclination in that direction I highly recommend giving lighter touring a try.

Some of the Salsa front racks were recalled a year or two ago, so beware.

Since you have a SDT, you could try to fit a std cheap AL rear rack to the front, using the SDT's fork crown bosses and forward dropout eyelets for mounting. You'd have to bend each rack leg inwards 10-15mm to fit the narrower spacing on the front (100mm vs 130-135mm). Also, the fork crown spacing may be wider than the usual seatstay mounting, which makes me think you ought to look for a rack with the flat steel stays that you bend to fit, versus the round Al rod style.

One of the reasons that I like the Tubus is the stiffness. This is especially important for loaded touring and even more important for loaded touring and downhills. I was shocked when I watched the rack on my daughter's Fuji swaying under load along the Lochsa River in Idaho. It was visible from a few hundred feet behind her. The rack was solidly mounted but not solid. The rack wasn't a Blackburn but it was a Blackburn style like the one Doug64 has posted above. Many of the newer aluminum racks use larger diameter tubular construction which make them somewhat stiffer. The Planet Bike KOKO, for example is a tubular design which is both lighter and stiffer than the Blackburn type. It's cheap too.

Very happy with my Tubus Tara. Just remember to put it on the right way :innocent:

http://i2.wp.com/aushiker.com/wp-con...size=550%2C412

BTW I would check the pricing on Tubus racks from the likes of http://bike24.net, http://starbike.com and http://xxcycle.com. You may find that they are not as expensive as you think and you are getting damn good racks.

Andrew

This statement is very true, the stiffer racks does make the bike handle better under load...but if the tourist is only going to be hauling no more than 60 pounds with the usual 40% on the front and 60% on the rear which means 36 pounds on the rear and 24 pounds on the front you shouldn't get much if any swaying with that little of weight if you use a quality rack like the Topeak for the rear because your well under it's 50 or 55 pound weight limit. Granted the Tubus would be stiffer but probably only noticeable at weights above 45 pounds. My Schwinn Le Tour Luxe came with a Blackburn rack from the factory which I used once for a weekend tour, I only had about 20 pounds on it and the rack nor bike swayed, of course where I live there isn't much in the way of downhills so I couldn't test it on that except on freeway overpasses which are not much in the way of test for this.

I just got an Axiom Journey rear rack for my wife's Jamis Coda. That rack came with really long rods that connect to the seat stays. It was a good fit on that frame, super easy to install. For my new touring build I repurposed a mid 90's butted Nishiki road bike frame. I got an Ibera rear rack. That came with really short rods to connect to the seat stays and worked perfect on that frame. The both seem well built. But I like the design of the Ibera rack a little better. It has a separate set of rails that set the load lower and rearward. I have to put some load and miles on them to see if they will hold up, but I don't expect any issues.

Andrew, that is very funny. Funny for me because when I think of over the years all the doofusy things I have done without realizing it, it makes me feel better that you put this up. We have to be able to laugh at ourselves dont we?
Good on you.

re racks, Ive mentioned my experiences before that with rear loads of about 25-30lbs, reasonably priced racks like the Planetbike one mentioned will work perfectly well. There are a number of larger tubed alu racks around now that for most people doing occasional trips, are very good value of performance/cost.
That said, it makes sense to say that for someone doing a lot of touring, or an extended trip, the extra cost for top notch racks will be worth it, especially if they are something that will be used for years and years and years. Basically the same view with all outdoor stuff, top stuff is worth it in the long run for all the various reasons.

I would have thought that way too until I saw the way that her rack was swaying. We were using a 60/40 split and her load was significantly less than mine (I was carrying all the heavy cooking gear). Her rear load consisted of a sleeping bag and pad, rain gear, clothing and a few personal items. None of it was heavy, just bulky but the rack swayed through quite an arch. She probably wouldn't have noticed it nor would most riders. But to an outside observer, it was quite clear. We replaced the rack in Lewiston with, I think, a Topeak which was better but still not as stiff as my Tubus.

Personally, I believe that a lot of death wobble problems (her bike developed one at around 30 mph on the downhill side of Lolo Pass) in touring bikes is do to the lack of stiffness of rear racks rather than a lack of stiffness in the frame. My old Miyata had a Blackburn style rack and it would wobble at around 50 mph. My Cannondale doesn't wobble at any speed that I've been stupid enough to take it to. I could also never stand and pedal my Miyata with a load...it just wandered all over the county. The Cannondale I can muscle up anything out of the saddle and can throw it from side to side like a race bike without it problems. The Cannondale's frame is stiffer than the Miyata but so is the rack.

I would not personally spend 100 dollars on new racks if I had Blackburn already. Unless you are planing to do any of the weird things CC does on his bike, I think you will do fine on the racks you have. Better racks are out there, but they tend to be expensive, and preferably custom. There are some really cheap racks out there that are just oversized blackburns, at ridiculous prices, and with nice welds. However, Blackburns are just fine. I still have one from around 1990, on one of my bikes.

Folks who tour the world non-stop, often choose custom options because racks do break, and in particular the bolts break, and the frame bits. But those tend to be problems at the 10 000 mile type level, you can do a tour of a lifetime, like a trans-am with Blackburns as multitudes have. Weigh you are carrying has to be reasonable.

The Jannd Expedition rear rack does indeed put the panniers a little further aft than most rear racks. The only complaint I have about mine is that the paint wore off pretty quickly where the panniers come in contact with it. I've never been able to travel light and this rack has always done well by me, even in heavily loaded, long, steep descents.

Someone brought up issues with the Surly Nice Rack, front rack, but couldn't remember what they were. When I was doing research looking for a front rack I found several reviews stating problems with failures of the rack itself. I ended up buying the Nitto Big Front Rack, but that isn't really pertinent here as it is double your budget.

I was surprised at how easily the rack scratched. Two words: Black Sharpie

I have no idea what I do on a touring bike that is "weird". I don't carry excessive loads, I don't do a lot of off-road riding nor would I consider my downhill speed to be excessive...most of the time. I have rear racks on off-road bicycles but if I'm going to touring on one of those, I'll probably pull a trailer or use Relavate bags.

:lol:I have never been brave enough to go over 30mph with my camping stuff on the back. You are insane.

i'm glad to have the opportunity to heap accolades on my old Blackburn rack. thanks for the post.

still going strong after 35 years. solid aluminum with a wonderful attachment mechanism that has easily accommodated itself to every bike i've tried to fit it to. i've often used the exact same words to describe the attachment mechanism: "surprisingly sturdy"!!!! and i can always make it level too.

The single point attachment at the seat stays or brake bridge does not have to be particularly strong. It's only there for for/aft stability.

The most stable racks have some triangulation when viewed from the rear. A rack with all parallel vertical members will be much more prone to swaying. Larger diameter tubes help, but that's a "band-aid" for lateral stiffness. If you look at the last vertical member in that photo of the old Blackburn rack, note that it is narrower than the two other members. They're the ones carrying the pannier load, but that last one is what keeps it from swaying.

Does that work? And last?

What they should be doing is powder coating them at the factory, especially since, IIRC, these aren't inexpensive racks. IIRC, they don't offer them in plain metal finish either, just their crappy black paint. It's a real shame, because they are great racks, very durable, tough, and for those of us with heel strike issues (big feet or converting old MTB's to tourers), being able to set the panniers further back is very helpful. Luckily the bike I have it on, the beat up look kind of fits, but if this was on one of my clean and shiny builds it'd really be bugging me. Yeah, I'm like that.

I've gone over 45MPH downhill through mountainous areas, fully loaded. My converted MTB, racks, and load were rock solid. There's nothing like the feeling of hauling ass on a fully loaded touring rig and have it feel right because it's nice and steady. One of my favorite things about touring. On quiet country roads and keeping to my own lane, I don't see anything "insane" at all about it.