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Disc brake and canti brake together on same bike?

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Disc brake and canti brake together on same bike?

Old 04-05-14, 01:41 PM
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wheelinthai
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Disc brake and canti brake together on same bike?

I'm getting a new frame with provision for both types of brake. I've been reading posts from people who blown their tyres from going down hill and over heating the rim. Any advice on this matter would be much appreciated.
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Old 04-05-14, 04:19 PM
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I have 2 bikes which each has V brake posts and disc brake mounts..
one has rim brakes , the other disc brakes and I have several more with just rim brakes* and 50 years of riding later
*they are the ones with 10's of thousands of touring miles on them ..
Im still alive and never had that overheated rim blown tire scenario ever happen.

Last edited by CbadRider; 04-05-14 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Removed negative comments.
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Old 04-05-14, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wheelinthai View Post
I'm getting a new frame with provision for both types of brake. I've been reading posts from people who blown their tyres from going down hill and over heating the rim. Any advice on this matter would be much appreciated.
My last touring bike was a mountainbike with rim brakes. I changed the front fork to suspension and fitted disc brakes to the front instead of rim brakes. Never regretted this. Better braking and less fear of overheating the rims. There was one time when the tube blew by the valve and this may have been due to the heat of the downhill braking.

Now I have a disc trucker, bought mainly because of the disc option becoming available. Never regretted this either.
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Old 04-05-14, 05:34 PM
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Don't assume that disc brakes offer greater resistance to brake fade from overheating than cantilever. Both types can overheat if the rider is not carefull. Technique and common sense matter.
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Old 04-05-14, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Don't assume that disc brakes offer greater resistance to brake fade from overheating than cantilever. Both types can overheat if the rider is not carefull. Technique and common sense matter.
Dear Barrettscv, I'm not really concerned with the brake fading problem, but rather from tyre blown from over heated rim. Nevertheless, I appreciate your advice. Dear Steve0000, thank you for the feed back.
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Old 04-05-14, 07:10 PM
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If I were interested in disk brakes, your idea is the way I'd go op. Avid 7 disc, Kool Stop pads on the rim. No experience with either, just based on reputation.
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Old 04-05-14, 07:59 PM
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Overheating rim from braking, and tire blows... What are the odds...? 1/1,000,000 ? more like 1/1,000,000,000 it would seem like to me. JMO
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Old 04-05-14, 08:58 PM
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For touring, mechanical disc brakes are slightly better than rim brakes for several reasons, the least of which is to keep rims cool. The more important reasons are that you have better braking under wet / slushy / muddy conditions and you do not have rim wear from braking. Downsides are that they may make rear racks more difficult to mount and that they are slightly heavier than rim brakes. In practice it really doesn't matter which you use
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Old 04-05-14, 09:24 PM
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Disc breaks heat up the hubs and that leads to the grease failing which leads to more wear on your bearings.

Each has it's own plus and con

Personally I use disc brakes on the front and V brakes on the rear since disc brakes can be more easily damaged if you drop the bike or whatever and v brakes are nice if you need to true the wheel while you're on the road.
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Old 04-05-14, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HK 45 View Post
Disc breaks heat up the hubs and that leads to the grease failing which leads to more wear on your bearings.
More urban legend. Or, you're making it up.
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Old 04-05-14, 09:41 PM
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You can use ordinary Shimano STI or Microshift short-pull brifters with both Tektro Oryx cantis and BB7-road (not mtb version) or TRP Spyre Road calipers. That would be an easy set up. I wouldn't hesitate to run that combo on the nashbar touring frame/fork. Put some Tektro RL726 cyclocross levers on there too if you want, or substitute Tektro 340/520 levers and bar end shifters for the STI. It makes sense to put a disk on front if your fork has mounts for one. I can't think of any reasons why it would be a bad idea to have different front and back brakes except that it might be impossible or more expensive to buy a pre-built wheel set. That might be the decisive factor. It might also be slightly trickier to adjust them so that the levers feel roughly the same but I doubt it would be that difficult.

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 04-05-14 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 04-05-14, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclesafe View Post
More urban legend. Or, you're making it up.
It's all urban legend until it happens to you. I haven't had any sort of problems with my bikes other than dropping a chain on my spokes and ripping my pants to pieces or getting them stuck on the chain-ring.

It's all about what other people say really and I've heard both arguments being made. I suppose the easiest way to determine if it's real or not is to look up at what temperature bike tubes fail in a critical way or at what temperature the grease used inside hubs is rated for. Then take note on how much metal is drawing heat like a heat sink, plus the cooling effect of the wind if the bike is moving at great speed and whatever the local temperature is.

A job for myth busters I suppose.
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Old 04-05-14, 10:28 PM
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I have considered having a disk brake in front and keeping a set of cantilevers on the studs just as a back-up for the only real downfall I see to disk brakes, which is a bent rotor. Then just run whatever you want on the rear. Disk brakes are awesome. The squeal can be annoying when they get wet, but they'll always stop the bike well no matter the condition. I've only ever really heard hearsay about the heat issue with rim brakes. That bearing grease issue mentioned before sounds Pretty Damn unlikely to me. Someone somewhere was trying hard for reasons to dislike disk brakes. The pads on a rim brake are directly on the rim. That's why they heat up. The area where the pad contacts a disk brake rotor is so far from the bearings that I could never see much heat making it to the bearings.
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Old 04-06-14, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speed View Post
I have considered having a disk brake in front and keeping a set of cantilevers on the studs just as a back-up for the only real downfall I see to disk brakes, which is a bent rotor.
Bent rotors can usually be bent back far enough to be usable. If not, then you likely have much larger problems on your hands...

Aside from that, switching from disk brakes to cantilevers isn't as easy as it might seem. You'd likely need to cut the brake cable and the cable housing significantly shorter when you switch to the cantilever brake. Cutting modern housing probably requires something more than a pocket knife, which means you have one more tool that you have to haul around.

If you want to use disc brakes, and I would, a better alternative than unused cantilever brakes is to pack a spare rotor.
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Old 04-06-14, 12:15 PM
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I've thought of the spare rotor thing before, but always thought "well, a rotor not attached to anything is likely to get bent, so that doesn't seem like a good back-up either." but it just occurred to me that you could totally attach one to the inside of your rear rack on one side with no problem and little weight. It should be pretty well protected in there. If you do something bad enough to mangle your rear rack then you really do probably have bigger problems.
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Old 04-06-14, 12:43 PM
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Spare rotor, just keep it inside its little cardboard thing and store up against the flat part inside of your pannier, a lot less danger there than attached to a rack. Ive transported 8x10 prints inside my panniers flush against the inner stiffener without issues for decades.
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Old 04-06-14, 12:51 PM
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Technique: Don't ride the brakes bikes or cars and trucks .. better to hit them firmly and then release them fully

that way the rim cools adequately , or maybe alternate front and rear ..


50+ years of cycling and several multi month long international bike tours and Ive never cooked a tire to bursting ..

never even close ..



fwiw the risk of bent rotors is more when packing the front wheel off the bike to get it in a carton to Go somewhere ..

advantage of the Shimano centerlock hubs is the ease of removing the disc with the lockring and packing it separately.

and inside the pannier is good .. put the pedals in there too ..

they have to come off to get it boxed to go places not right out your door ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-06-14 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 04-06-14, 12:55 PM
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Same experience for.me, and not riding the brakes is key as fiets says. Apply hard,, release. I have stopped to let things cool, sometimes cuz front brake hand gets tired, had hot rims but no tire tube problems.
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Old 04-06-14, 05:22 PM
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There is never a reason to "ride your brakes" so heated rims or rotors should never be a problem. I've toured with center-pulls, cantilevers, discs, and v-brakes, and after 16,000 touring miles I've never had a heating problem. It is true that rotors have quicker stopping power in wet conditions. It's probably true that repairing them, in the extremely unlikely situation that they fail catastrophically, would be a problem. Carrying an extra rotor "just in case" is a waste. My guess is you're probably still more likely to need a new rim than rotor. All that said, for me the simplicity and excellent stopping power of v-brakes is the way to go.

Last edited by BigAura; 04-06-14 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 04-06-14, 06:46 PM
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Bike Tour is not really a race so no reason to rush ..
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Old 04-06-14, 08:48 PM
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yes, both on one bike. replaced a broken v-brake equipped frame with a new disc-only
frame. migrated as many parts as possible to the new frame, including the non-shock
v-brake-equipped fork. picked up a mechanical BB5 for the rear.

same-same, only different. either type is fine. both rims and disc can get too hot to touch.
so far not hot enough to do damage, either to tire or hub.
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Old 04-07-14, 12:52 AM
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I'm a believer in the idea of having both cantis and discs on the front, and cantis on the back. The weight is pretty much a wash, given how much you save by clipping the rear disc. It also allows the rear wheel to be stronger. Basically, at my weight, I am well over average tandem weight when loaded. Tandems have 3 brakes. Normally 2 in the back, but I like the idea of the double up front. I use drops, and would put a 2 finger brake on the tops, so that I would have tops and drops brakes. If the brakes on the front ever fade/fail there is a back-up. I realize that this is overkill, but the cost in most regards is pretty much zero, so what is the real downside, other than doing something unusual.
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Old 04-07-14, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
You can use ordinary Shimano STI or Microshift short-pull brifters with both Tektro Oryx cantis and BB7-road (not mtb version) or TRP Spyre Road calipers. That would be an easy set up. I wouldn't hesitate to run that combo on the nashbar touring frame/fork. Put some Tektro RL726 cyclocross levers on there too if you want, or substitute Tektro 340/520 levers and bar end shifters for the STI. It makes sense to put a disk on front if your fork has mounts for one. I can't think of any reasons why it would be a bad idea to have different front and back brakes except that it might be impossible or more expensive to buy a pre-built wheel set. That might be the decisive factor. It might also be slightly trickier to adjust them so that the levers feel roughly the same but I doubt it would be that difficult.
Thanks for detailed suggestions.
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Old 04-07-14, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HK 45 View Post
Disc breaks heat up the hubs and that leads to the grease failing which leads to more wear on your bearings.
Could that lead to a grease fire? If so, what could happen if it's raining? I hear you should never try to put out a grease fire with water.
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Old 04-07-14, 05:31 AM
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wheelinthai, I had a co-worker that crashed on a long downhill run in Colorado. He simply had no experience with such a long descent and blew the rear tire off the rim.

I see nothing wrong mixing brake designs.

Brad
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