Wild camping
#26
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I decide not to camp illegally here in the States. I don't want a ticket or perhaps even jail time with a fire and an open bottle. Public Intox is a night in jail.
Luckily, here in Iowa, it is very legal to set up camp for up to 14 days (have to move footprint after 14 days) along any meandered river and something like within 200 or 300 yards within the high water mark. Can even drink adult beverages legally as long as camp is set up. Must bring a shovel though because fire must be in a hole unless it's on a sand bar.
So I'm very fortunate to live just a couple miles away from the Des Moines River valley where it's heavily and dense wooded to camp primitive and legally.
Luckily, here in Iowa, it is very legal to set up camp for up to 14 days (have to move footprint after 14 days) along any meandered river and something like within 200 or 300 yards within the high water mark. Can even drink adult beverages legally as long as camp is set up. Must bring a shovel though because fire must be in a hole unless it's on a sand bar.
So I'm very fortunate to live just a couple miles away from the Des Moines River valley where it's heavily and dense wooded to camp primitive and legally.
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The night before I saw a mom and a fawn that looked no more than a week or so old come out of the bushes by the liquor store.
#28
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I'd go a step further and say that you are much more likely to be bothered by critters in a campground than out. They get habituated to mooching/stealing food/garbage in campgrounds. Away from campgrounds they are less likely to find you and more likely to be afraid of humans if they do. Well established wild campsites do have the same problem as campgrounds though.
with my food against bears, and porcupines and rodents against chewing my gear, I've never had any serious critter problems. The only situation that kept me awake very long was a large pack of wolves holding choir practice a couple hundred yards from me for what seemed like at least an hour.
#29
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Bikes: Surly LHTD with a YAK trailer. I may have to ditch the trailer and go to panniers but I'll give it a try and see what happens.
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#31
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That incident was in the Cascades while riding the Alcan Hwy. The wolves being nearby didn't really
bother me as I've been around wolves many times in the outback. It was their very loud and long
howling that rose from low to high and then higher only to start again and again when I thought they
were through. This went on for a long time. I tried to make ear plugs out of toilet paper but it didn't
shut it out enough for me to get back to sleep.
bother me as I've been around wolves many times in the outback. It was their very loud and long
howling that rose from low to high and then higher only to start again and again when I thought they
were through. This went on for a long time. I tried to make ear plugs out of toilet paper but it didn't
shut it out enough for me to get back to sleep.
#32
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I dog and one bear, the bear is going to be confident. But one dog without a pack is probably wondering why he has to do all the work while humans snap photos. More than a few dogs, pile of trouble for a bear.
#33
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As far as camping in Southern Ontario (where I live) is concerned, you are trespassing even when it isn't marked. The law includes such stuff as fencing, crops, etc... as indicators that the land is protected against trespass. In the south, you will encounter a lot of that kind of land.
What you seem to be referring to is stealth camping, not wild camping. Wild camping is camping in places like a wilderness, or undeveloped at least. Most of southern ontario is more rural.
Some of the best places to stealth camp are in towns, they are full of areas most people are scared to venture into at night, and nobody claims as their own. Valleys where houses aren't able to be built, bush lots, places were houses are being built, golf courses (in the bush around them), etc... Just take your sleeping bag and gear, out at night, and set up camp in as many places where you live, and see how it goes. Think micro environments, you don't need a thousand acres, you need 100 square, feet, not even.
What you seem to be referring to is stealth camping, not wild camping. Wild camping is camping in places like a wilderness, or undeveloped at least. Most of southern ontario is more rural.
Some of the best places to stealth camp are in towns, they are full of areas most people are scared to venture into at night, and nobody claims as their own. Valleys where houses aren't able to be built, bush lots, places were houses are being built, golf courses (in the bush around them), etc... Just take your sleeping bag and gear, out at night, and set up camp in as many places where you live, and see how it goes. Think micro environments, you don't need a thousand acres, you need 100 square, feet, not even.
#34
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You are obviously doing what is legal and works in your area. That said, open fires haven't really been acceptable in camping for like 40 years. While alcohol is being consumed, sounds a bit like drinking and driving. There was an earlier time when firemaking and lean to type depredations of the countryside were accepted. They have been widely rejected for decades, though they are now back through "bushcraft". Of course they are a survival necessity or harmless in some areas, just not many.
#35
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Yes, you're correct on the term, I couldn't remember "stealth" when I composed the post and I thought that "wild" was close enough, perhaps not.
#36
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If you are starting in Sudbury Wild is probably what you will face. Along the Saint Lawrence and the lakes, it would be a combo of things, I guess, I did that route a few times, the lakes one. I'm only picking you up on the point because that may be helpful in your situation with other boards, or whatever. Myself, I find the fragmentation of camping styles and all the arguments around them a little annoying, though I pitch in.
I suppose one other thing is that ideally when stealth camping, one should always pretend one is wild camping. So if I pick a wild looking scrap, I would be all innocence that I was trespassing if ever challenged. Of course the whole point of stealth camping is that they will never know you were there. By the way, it isn't lying, it is normally pretty much impossible to know who owns what, or what rules cover it on a long bike tour. So I just subscribe to my side of the argument.
The biggest problem with stealth camping is that the behaviour required interferes with the camping process. Like you cycle till you can barely see the surroundings then you get into your camp, no shower, campfire, cooking, etc... Then you wake up at dawn, no washing no rest room, and you take off again. You are not going to be discovered, even in enemy territory, ask the SAS, but you just don't have the kind of dream situation you have when wild camping, etc...
In ontario, one of the better forms of cycle touring is on roads in the bush, or snowmobile trails. Definitely the best tours I have had here was on those kinds of roads. You can wild camp or fish wherever you want. You see lots of animals, often at close range. If you google ontario trails, you will find a comprehensive list, and discover most of them are snowmobile trails, some nearly 900 km long, or longer. Unfortunately they are often impassable, generally, or in places, so you have to do your homework.
I suppose one other thing is that ideally when stealth camping, one should always pretend one is wild camping. So if I pick a wild looking scrap, I would be all innocence that I was trespassing if ever challenged. Of course the whole point of stealth camping is that they will never know you were there. By the way, it isn't lying, it is normally pretty much impossible to know who owns what, or what rules cover it on a long bike tour. So I just subscribe to my side of the argument.
The biggest problem with stealth camping is that the behaviour required interferes with the camping process. Like you cycle till you can barely see the surroundings then you get into your camp, no shower, campfire, cooking, etc... Then you wake up at dawn, no washing no rest room, and you take off again. You are not going to be discovered, even in enemy territory, ask the SAS, but you just don't have the kind of dream situation you have when wild camping, etc...
In ontario, one of the better forms of cycle touring is on roads in the bush, or snowmobile trails. Definitely the best tours I have had here was on those kinds of roads. You can wild camp or fish wherever you want. You see lots of animals, often at close range. If you google ontario trails, you will find a comprehensive list, and discover most of them are snowmobile trails, some nearly 900 km long, or longer. Unfortunately they are often impassable, generally, or in places, so you have to do your homework.
#37
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Some snowmobile trails are only passable if there is sufficient snowfall to cover the roughness of the ground underneath. There also are many quad trails near my camp/cottage, some of which become snowmobile trails in the winter. I've been on a couple of these and in some cases, they really need a motor more powerful than my body to use and a machine more capable in muddy or loose conditions. Maybe my experience is skewed by the small amount of trails I've been on, maybe more of them are passable but I think it would be a bit of a risk in that I might get to a point that I need to turn around.
I'm not looking for that much adventure while bike touring.
I'm not looking for that much adventure while bike touring.
#38
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#39
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True, but there are many snowmobile/quad trails that are converted rail trails and I've found those to be very passable by bike. If you'd like an account of a two day trip on the K&P Trail between Renfrew and Kingston see here: https://sites.google.com/site/twodaysonthekickandpush/
#40
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I found this map of the trail. It is now called the Kick and Push Trail but it follows the rail bed of what was intended to be the Kingston to Pembroke line (both K&P).
Map: Pop-Up Maps - www.NiagaraRails.com - kingpem.gif
Map: Pop-Up Maps - www.NiagaraRails.com - kingpem.gif
#41
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I have camped in Southern Ontario for many years and the best experiences are the accidental ones. Small town people seem to be the most open about letting you camp on their property just for the asking and sometimes a free meal with great conversation. No charge.
#42
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Though it doesn't state it on that particular website you can connect with another rail trail that takes you from Peterborough to Hastings. If you look at Google Maps it shows a continuation of that trail to Campbellford and Stirling and beyond. The access for ATV/quadrunners is blocked until Hastings. After that they share the trail and it is roughened up considerably.
Last edited by hilltowner; 10-21-14 at 06:07 PM.
#43
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From the Sault to Kingston? You may have passed by us, in Sudbury, unless you went south across Manitoulin Island.
Thanks for the info!!
Thanks for the info!!
#44
Senior Member
Manitoulin Is. it was, and from there the Bruce Penn., Owen Sound, Meaford, Collingwood, Orillia, Lindsay, Omemee, Peterborough, Hastings, Campbellford, Stirling, etc. (Much of which was on rail trails)
Once, long ago, on a journey north to canoe on the Albany River I did go through Sudbury.
No offense intended to Sudburyites, but Manitoulin Island and the Bruce Penninsula were probably the highlight of the trip (which actually started in Duluth and included the U.P. of MI before getting to the Soo).
Once, long ago, on a journey north to canoe on the Albany River I did go through Sudbury.
No offense intended to Sudburyites, but Manitoulin Island and the Bruce Penninsula were probably the highlight of the trip (which actually started in Duluth and included the U.P. of MI before getting to the Soo).
Last edited by hilltowner; 10-22-14 at 06:28 PM.
#45
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If you're biking in the area again, give me a PM and maybe we can ride together for a couple of days.
#46
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I never camp at the side of the road "outlaw" style in the USA any more. First, it's hard to find property not surrounded by barbed wire. If you do find that, chances are you will have to wade through poison ivy, sumac, nettles, ticks, chiggers, soggy ground, thorny vines, roadside ditches, and do without fresh water, toilets, and shower facilities. Good luck pitching a tent. You will stink like a wild animal after one or two days of this and probably look like $h*t too. Which then gets you noticed in town when you hit the grocery store or restaurant as some sort of vagrant.
OK...let's say you find the perfect spot at the side of the road. Every passing car is going to wake you up, every barking dog will get your attention, even farm dogs who are allowed to roam all night will sniff you out. Ants, bears, raccoons, and skunks will come-a-prospecting for your food supply keeping you awake half the night. If you get a rain storm, God only knows where the runoff is going to go. No...wait...it's going right through your tent for sure. Not using a tent? Hope you like mosquitoes buzzing around your ears all night.
Otherwise, go for it!
OK...let's say you find the perfect spot at the side of the road. Every passing car is going to wake you up, every barking dog will get your attention, even farm dogs who are allowed to roam all night will sniff you out. Ants, bears, raccoons, and skunks will come-a-prospecting for your food supply keeping you awake half the night. If you get a rain storm, God only knows where the runoff is going to go. No...wait...it's going right through your tent for sure. Not using a tent? Hope you like mosquitoes buzzing around your ears all night.
Otherwise, go for it!
#47
Senior Member
When I've wild camped in the western US, I could usually take advantage of picnic areas with potable water to cook dinner and clean up the dishes, body, and laundry before heading out into more wild areas to set up a camp out of sight of the road. I'd try and ride below the sweat level to keep the clothes fresh. Then pack up in the AM and ride to some nice place to either cook or buy breakfast--I'd also have some danish and fruit just in case it would be some distance to a "nice place".
#48
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I was stealth camping in Michigan when I was woken by walking all around my hammock, and then some crazy noises. Finally decided it was deer moving around. Then they seemed to party for another two hours yelling and what seemed like making circles around me. In the morning, I climbed out of the hammock. Not twenty feet away, two deer jumped up and took off. Don't know which of us was more startled.
#49
Senior Member
I was stealth camping in Michigan when I was woken by walking all around my hammock, and then some crazy noises. Finally decided it was deer moving around. Then they seemed to party for another two hours yelling and what seemed like making circles around me. In the morning, I climbed out of the hammock. Not twenty feet away, two deer jumped up and took off. Don't know which of us was more startled.
Last edited by hilltowner; 10-24-14 at 09:16 PM.
#50
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I have ridden up the Northern Peninsula of Michigan over Sault St. Marie and into Canada where we hit the Mantoulin Islands. I remember the stretch of RT 17 to be fairly populated all the way to Espanola with many fishing camps and Bed and Breakfasts. We caught a deal from a place that had a fishing party cancel late in the day. I remember the land to have a lot of water. Great lakes on one side and lots of stream, ponds, and marshes on the other.
I usually try to camp free and find that the best way to approach it is to start looking early and then get in and out quickly. If I have an opportunity I will always ask politely making sure to let them know I will be on my way in the morning, no fires, and nothing left behind. I had one farmer who let me camp in his glorious field and his dog spent the night with me.
I find that the biggest danger is dogs. Not that they will attack you instead that they will know you are 500 yds. away and they will bark all night. I try to find spots far away from anything.
I usually try to camp free and find that the best way to approach it is to start looking early and then get in and out quickly. If I have an opportunity I will always ask politely making sure to let them know I will be on my way in the morning, no fires, and nothing left behind. I had one farmer who let me camp in his glorious field and his dog spent the night with me.
I find that the biggest danger is dogs. Not that they will attack you instead that they will know you are 500 yds. away and they will bark all night. I try to find spots far away from anything.