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Carbon Seatstay, alu frame, and rear bag or rack mounting?

Old 10-23-14, 10:05 AM
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Carbon Seatstay, alu frame, and rear bag or rack mounting?

My road bike has alu frame with carbon seatstay and carbon seatpost. I want to carry about 20L volume in a rear bag on my commute-for-exercise to work, which is about 30 miles one-way. I'm posting here instead of the commuting forum because of the excellent threads giving close-to-ideal solutions already. I would like to use a conventional, light weight and inexpensive rack, because of low profile, and easily detached bags that are available - and I like the in-line look more than a bulky bag hanging cross-ways behind my seat. Also, I don't want to attach to the rear axle and interfiere with rapid flat repair on the commute.

However, some of the Carradice bags, like the Carradice Nelson Longflap Saddle bag, do look really nice, not sure about the cost though.

The biggest concern I have is strength of the carbon seatstays - they are designed for compression on their length, not for clamps or bending forces. So P-Clamps might be out of the picture. The carbon seatpost might very well be replaced this coming spring anyway, and I don't need to stay with carbon - alu would be just fine.

There are some sort of eyelets in the alu part by the derailleur hanger that might be threaded already for something. So how should I go about this? Clamp on the seatpost itself that has eyelets? I might have to use shims because not seeing any clamps for 27.2mm seatpost.

I don't expect much weight - just spare office stuff / clothes, regular bike stuff like leggings, light jacket, spare tire. Won't even be carrying a laptop, so pretty light weight. Not even thinking panniers.

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Old 10-23-14, 10:34 AM
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Hard to tell a designers intentions without asking them, but we guess and project, here.



sounds like commuting eyelets may be for Mudguards , not a load. But..


You may find a replacement band clamp .. the one that grips the seat post .

some are made that both squeeze the frame around the seat post, and also offer 2 threaded holes

to bolt the upper rack struts onto .. they are sized for the outside of the frame-seat-tube, not the seat Post.

Keeping with the light weight theme : Titanium tubus - Airy


another potential mount point is the brake center bolt
tubus - Fly classic _ tubus - Fly classic Edelstahl

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-23-14 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 10-23-14, 12:14 PM
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Assuming you replace your carbon seatpost with a metal one, no reason you can't use a good seatpost-mount rack and a rack-top bag. Doesn't sound like you'll be carrying very much.

Like this: Topeak® Cycling Accessories ? Products - RX BeamRack w/Side Frame (E-Type)

I agree that the dropout eyelets look like they are for mudguards, not a rack.
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Old 10-23-14, 05:52 PM
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I doubt you'll have any problem using a rack on that bike. It appears the eyelets on the droputs are designed for fenders and/or rack.

For twenty years I've been riding a full carbon Trek mountain bike. I often times use it with a rack. Both for rough mountain bike touring (Colorado Trail, Kokopelli, etc) and as my commuter during the winter. Using a rack on the carbon frame has posed no problems.

The lower rack struts mount to the dropout. The upper stays I have mounted to a rack adapter that goes around the seat stay of the frame. The adapter is like this one https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Bike-Rack-Monostay-Adapter/dp/B003MNSG8K

My frame has a single seat stay, but there are other adapters that work if you have two seat stays.

The vast majority of the forces are exerted downward through the rack struts. Very little force goes trough the rack adapter; thus there is very little force on the cabon part of the frame.

This setup has worked well for two decades and I have no second thoughts about using it for another 20 years. I think you'll have the same experience.
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Old 10-23-14, 07:14 PM
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I put a Carradice camper lomngflap on my carbon framed bike with an Al searpost. I don't use a rack as there is sufficient clearance between the bag and rear wheel just hanging the bag off the saddle. It works well, but for light loads I find the Barley is also good.
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Old 10-23-14, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
sounds like commuting eyelets may be for Mudguards , not a load.
Originally Posted by briwasson View Post
I agree that the dropout eyelets look like they are for mudguards, not a rack.
What do you see in the eyelets indicating non-load bearing mfg? They are part of the alu angle the cf seatstay is attached to. Do the eyelet's look to small and insubstantial?


Oh, and thanks to nun's comment on the Carradice bag, ended up finding a Salsa Post-Lock 27.2 Rack Mount seat post clamp. That plus the Sunlite bike rack monostay adapter will solve the first unknown I had when using conventional style racks if I go that direction.
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Last edited by RoadTire; 10-23-14 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 10-26-14, 08:47 PM
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I had my bike looked at and had 3 opinions about a conventional rack: 1) maybe, how much weight, 2) no and 3) no. Those lower eyelets are pretty insubstantial. That leaves the beam type rack, Carradice style bag, or backpack.

Those options mean an aluminum seatpost, or better core strength because of the backpack. I need the core strength anyway, and looking for a zero setback seatpost. Seems conspiratorial to me.

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Old 10-26-14, 10:57 PM
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Have a look at the Arkel Randonneur rack, which is not at all the usual beam rack:
Arkel Randonneur Rack - Seat Post Rack - Carbon Seat Post Friendly
and the expandable bag made to go on it:
Arkel's Rack bag | Trunk bag

We've been using this combo for a few years. Light, durable, built-in waterproof cover, excellent quality and the rack goes on and off in seconds.
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Old 10-27-14, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Have a look at the Arkel Randonneur rack, which is not at all the usual beam rack:
Arkel Randonneur Rack - Seat Post Rack - Carbon Seat Post Friendly
and the expandable bag made to go on it:
Arkel's Rack bag | Trunk bag

We've been using this combo for a few years. Light, durable, built-in waterproof cover, excellent quality and the rack goes on and off in seconds.

Solid, eh? I watched their video and this does look like a very good option. Haven't seen anything better yet.I really like the way it hangs off the seat rails and can be leveled on the seatpost. I imagine the bags should be packed front-heavy to minimize the leverage on the seat and seat post.
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Old 10-27-14, 04:50 AM
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I'd just use the brake bridge and the threaded holes on the drop out. If I was nervous about the holes in the drop out, then I'd use a rack that uses the QR skewer. I know you don't want to slow down flat repair by using the QR skewer, but we are probably talking 15 or 20 seconds.

On the other hand for the type and amount of stuff you are talking about I might not use a rack at all. You say about 20 liters, so I am assuming less than 5 pounds. If that is the case I'd just use a little backpack. The REI Flash 18 and Flash 22 would be likely candidates. I have does a lot of miles wearing the Flash 18 and really liked it.
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Old 10-27-14, 02:02 PM
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I don't think Trek would have put eyelets on the dropout and not expected them to be used by some customers for a rack.

The load is borne by the eyelets and chainstays. Relatively little force is exerted on the CF seatstays/monostay.

The rack can be attached at top with a single stay fixed to the brake bolt. This should be more than adequate for the light usage proposed by OP.
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Old 10-28-14, 08:25 PM
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I had weighed my gear trying to find the minimum safe and comfortable clothing and backup components (not already in my seat bag) in case of light failure or cold 50 deg/rain conditions. Day temps can be 70 deg while night ride is 50 deg. If I have to carry office clothing / toiletries, that is a separately weighed group.

In a nutshell:
Backpack, Northface Surge II is 3 lbs 1 ounce.
Minimum backpack commuting contents are 4 lbs 9 ounces,
Minimal office stuff is 5 lbs 5 ounces,
.

That puts 13 lbs on my back, allowing for minor weighing differences.

Add the seat bag with flat kit and tools at 2 lbs 12 ounces, and (including heavy bag) puts 15 lbs 3 ounces on a rack.
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Old 10-28-14, 09:59 PM
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bikepacking bag?

IMG_1368 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

but they tend to top out at 14-16l
so maybe get most of your stuff in, and then a bit in the backpack.
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Old 10-28-14, 10:04 PM
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you can also do this to take care of the top of the rack:
Post-Lock | Parts & Accessories | Salsa Cycles



and get a rack that mounts to the QR (although, with a light load, you might be fine with those dropout threaded holes...) i ran a rear rack on my carbon / steel lemond - but it came with some adapters that fit into the frame just above the rear derailer).

here's an axiom, but old man mountain makes some too (and I'm sure others)
Streamliner Racks « Racks « Products « Axiom Performance Gear
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Old 10-29-14, 04:02 AM
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Still leaning to the Arkel Randonneur rack as it just barely fits the cool-weather weight capacity it's (carbon-post safe) mounting system, and use any conventional trunk bag. I really like the quick removal of the rack.

Post-Lock and Streamliner rack-like system would work well also. At the light loads the post lock should be safe on a CF seat post, (from the recommendations here) and I bet could even be drilled out to use a quick-release where the rack attaches.

bmike's picture makes me think I could use my stuff sacks to decrease the volume taken by the extra cycling clothes but the office clothes are just volume sucks. I also have the same small handlebar bag setup between the shift cables like the picture on the left, if I want it.

Backpack for extras on occasion is still an option.
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Old 10-29-14, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadTire View Post
I had weighed my gear trying to find the minimum safe and comfortable clothing and backup components (not already in my seat bag) in case of light failure or cold 50 deg/rain conditions. Day temps can be 70 deg while night ride is 50 deg. If I have to carry office clothing / toiletries, that is a separately weighed group.

In a nutshell:
Backpack, Northface Surge II is 3 lbs 1 ounce.
Minimum backpack commuting contents are 4 lbs 9 ounces,
Minimal office stuff is 5 lbs 5 ounces,
.

That puts 13 lbs on my back, allowing for minor weighing differences.

Add the seat bag with flat kit and tools at 2 lbs 12 ounces, and (including heavy bag) puts 15 lbs 3 ounces on a rack.
I'll withdraw my backpack suggestion. That is more weight than I would want to carry on my back on the bike on a regular basis. Heck it is more than I would carry in total on a coast to coast tour these days (and a lot more tool weight too).
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Old 10-29-14, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I'll withdraw my backpack suggestion. That is more weight than I would want to carry on my back on the bike on a regular basis. Heck it is more than I would carry in total on a coast to coast tour these days (and a lot more tool weight too).
No need to withdraw the suggestion. I know 2 very good cyclists who carry similar backpacks on their rides or commutes when needed. Ultralight weight wienie? I will have to check out your Crazy Guy on a Bike articles and see what I can learn. It's all about what works and what is just extra weight, and begs the question, "what am I carrying that has minimal utility? Do I really need this particular item? Is there a light weight substitute for a inconvenience or emergency?"
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Old 10-30-14, 10:43 AM
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Weight Weenies have their own forum. tend to be roadies, & off roaders, not Touring cyclists.


Fortunately a credit card is virtually weightless ..

BTW in addition to the one shown on 14th post , the same type of band clamp is made
with the extra mounting holes on the same side as the pinch bolt.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/passport-...23605/?geoc=us

rather than the opposite side.

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Old 10-30-14, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Weight Weenies have their own forum. tend to be roadies, & off roaders, not Touring cyclists.

road tourers, dirt road tourers, and generally anyone who wants to move with less effort can benefit from cutting down their load...
but, YMMV, RYOR, etc.
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Old 10-30-14, 11:55 AM
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Me, I dont tend to rush thru my tours like its an Audax\ Brevet.
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Old 10-30-14, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Me, I dont tend to rush thru my tours like its an Audax\ Brevet.
if i want to bring the kitchen sink i usually stay home...
no need to rush.
i'd rather not carry a heavy load a block much less than a mile or a 100 if i can be smart about what i bring.
its not about speed.
or about being a weight weenie.
self sufficient with the gear required for the task at hand, with proper skills and equipment to be effective in the terrain and weather one might encounter.

but again, YMMV, RYOR, and enjoy your way of touring.
no need to tell someone to go to another forum with a perfectly legit question.
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Old 10-30-14, 12:11 PM
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My last significant tour was 9 months long..out of the US.. end of 1 winter to the start of another.

Yes YMMV..
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Old 10-30-14, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadTire View Post
If I have to carry office clothing / toiletries, that is a separately weighed group.
Or you could leave some stuff at work. For years I commuted three days/week via bike-train-bike to a different state. Things like dress shoes, socks, belts and toiletries were kept at work. I also had some spare slacks and a few other clothing items there. Never carried much more in my Tibuk2 bag than underwear, pants and some upper body clothing that was dictated by the weather.

Seat post bag with a couple of tubes, tire levers, a set of allen wrenches and some CO2. Never bothered with a spare tire or any other tools.

The biggest pain is when it was cold in the morning and warm in the afternoon. On those days I often had to carry things like arm and leg warmers in the bag for the trip home.

Fortunately, my commute now is only about 2 miles. I have small wardrobe in my office. I periodically take items home to wash them.
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Old 10-30-14, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bmike View Post
bikepacking bag?

IMG_1368 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

but they tend to top out at 14-16l
so maybe get most of your stuff in, and then a bit in the backpack.
While touring in MT back in June I saw several participants in the GDMB Race with gear setups that looked a lot like that. Maybe a little more capacity, but if so, not much more. Pretty neat.
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Old 10-30-14, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
My last significant tour was 9 months long..out of the US.. end of 1 winter to the start of another.

Yes YMMV..
thats great...! sounds like a fun trip.
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