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Discrimination

Old 11-06-14, 12:10 PM
  #26  
indyfabz
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Originally Posted by mulveyr View Post
How so? If they're segregating themselves by age group, it's a pretty good indication that they prefer to be with people with their own age.
The tour in question is aimed at people who might be interested in self-supported touring. In any event, the fact that young people might want to stay up later than older people doesn't is not probative any preference on the part of any age group. Indeed, as you acknowledge, both young and old alike signed up. Why would a young (or old) person sign up for a tour open to all ages groups if they were averse to riding with people of differing ages.

In any event...As pointed out by Machka, the demographic of ACA tours is skewed towards the older end of the age spectrum.(The same is true for its membership.) In addition to my x-country tour, I participated in ACA's supported Cycle Vermont. I have also crossed paths with two of their other self-contained tours, and this past June I crossed paths with their supported Cycle Montana tour. From what I have observed, 50 seems a little low. I'll bet if you were to exclude the family oriented tours they offer, that number would climb.

The organization has repeatedly expressed a desire to encourage more young people to take up bike touring. With the country's aging population, ACA's robust existence may hinge on accomplishing that. That is the motivation behind the introductory tours aimed at people 30 and under. (A similar motivation is behind the women-only tours.) ACA's motivation is not to exclude anyone based on age.
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Old 11-06-14, 12:23 PM
  #27  
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A Phone call to ACA in Missoula MT and asking directly will get you more direct answers. Try it.
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Old 11-06-14, 12:30 PM
  #28  
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I discriminate against all age groups, all sexes, all races, etc. My tours are open only to me
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Old 11-06-14, 12:42 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mulveyr View Post
That particular tour is clearly intended to appeal to an age group that isn't well represented in bike touring.

While I don't consider myself to be exactly old at 47, if I was a 22-year-old I'd be much more interested in riding with people plus or minus a few years from that age, not the typical tourists in their 50's on up. As such, I think the ACA is doing exactly the right thing by targeting the under-30 crowd.
I agree with the ACA's decision as far as promoting younger tourists. I also think that the rules can/should be relaxed case-by-case, since some of the most interesting cyclists I've met in my days have been decades older than me. I climbed Greylock with two sprightly 78-year olds. They crushed three mountains that day on $6,000 bikes, probably close to 80 miles total.
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Old 11-06-14, 04:13 PM
  #30  
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Get off my lawn.
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Old 11-06-14, 04:46 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Oh please.

At 41 you should have "die hard endurance". You should be able to ride all over the country and not worry about it. If you're not able to do that, I encourage you to focus on your fitness over the next few months.


The average age of PBP riders (that's a 1200K randonnee held in France) is 49 years old. Average age. There are riders doing that who are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s.


The average age of participants on ACA tours is 50 ...

FAQ | Guided Tours | Adventure Cycling Association
"Who goes on Adventure Cycling tours?
The average age of our tour participants is around 50; however, you can expect participants ranging from their 20s to their 80s."
I wish that was the case for me being able to go anywhere in the country without a care in the world .When I got thyroid cancer it more less stopped me in my tracks literally. For some reason it ruined my balance and my stamina and my agility. I got that at 35 got rid of it 6 months later contracted diabetes gained a extra 100 pounds in 6 months. Weighed in over 260 after that now just getting back down to 200. And got my diabetes under control now off of most of my shots. This past summer been training and riding just to loose weight and steady working it off . Just now getting back to getting ready to do weekenders and week long tours. Always had to ride at night due to having 2 heat strokes after the diagnosis. Before I got sick I could do anything I was 150 soaking wet at 5.6 .Now just floating around at 200 and trying to get back to normal.
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Old 11-06-14, 05:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by wbuttry View Post
I wish that was the case for me being able to go anywhere in the country without a care in the world .When I got thyroid cancer it more less stopped me in my tracks literally. For some reason it ruined my balance and my stamina and my agility. I got that at 35 got rid of it 6 months later contracted diabetes gained a extra 100 pounds in 6 months. Weighed in over 260 after that now just getting back down to 200. And got my diabetes under control now off of most of my shots. This past summer been training and riding just to loose weight and steady working it off . Just now getting back to getting ready to do weekenders and week long tours. Always had to ride at night due to having 2 heat strokes after the diagnosis. Before I got sick I could do anything I was 150 soaking wet at 5.6 .Now just floating around at 200 and trying to get back to normal.
Keep working at it ... at 41, you're young enough to be able to gain or regain strength and stamina. If you put in an effort over the winter, you could be out riding centuries next summer.


These days, 40 is the new 30 ... a time to be active and strong.
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Old 11-06-14, 05:09 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Find out if it might be possible you could join ... being fully aware that you'll be in the midst of a group of under-30s who may (or may not!) have a whole different perspective on life than you.
What tourist would wish to be around people who have different perspectives on life?
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Old 11-07-14, 03:04 AM
  #34  
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My understanding is that a company may position a trip as being for participants of certain ages or certain sexes, but cannot refuse to accept someone who doesn't fit their desired criteria. Perhaps a nonprofit can allow more flexibility, but I doubt it. A grey area for sure.

Having said that, being an agnostic single male older tourer, I would self-select away from family-oriented, young-person-specific, religious, and most definitely and positively women targeted tours. But the latter, is the only one that would be overtly exclusionary of my demographic. The others, I imagine, would be inclusionary after I was made well aware that I should expect accommodations for children, younger adults, and proselytizers, respectively.
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Old 11-07-14, 07:28 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
I'm not a lawyer but when I looked up the age-protected class thing, it said that age is only protected in terms of employment, not public accommodations. That's why stores can offer senior discounts and presumably that's why ACA can offer restricted-age trips.
Here is a reference to Oregon law: ORS 659A.403 - Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes

Looks like in Oregon age is included with specific exclusions for senior discounts and drinking laws. However, don't believe these things are absolute otherwise rental car companies wouldn't charge drivers under 25 more. There are also cases where you might legally be allowed to discriminate against one age group but not another (e.g. Discrimination Against Young Workers in the Workplace | Chron.com).

However, on the original topic of ACA under 30 trips, I don't have a big concern here because of several reasons:
1. Don't know how accommodating they might be if someone specifically asked. Somewhat different example I did once was an organized overseas bike tour with policy of "nobody under 18". One client had asked if she could bring her two teenagers - and company ended up sending us other customers an email to see if this would raise concerns for us. It didn't and they were excellent on the trip.
2. I'm supportive of some levels of encouragement in under-represented groups, e.g. women-only or under-30. I do believe for some (not all), a mindset can be slightly different if you are normally conscious of being in minority vs less aware as part of the majority. I've also been on some longer bike trips like TDA and observed some (but not strict) sorting that some do on basis of gender, age, language or nationality. So I see an "under-30" as more trying to broaden the appeal than trying to limit it.
3. This may not be only opportunity as they also have quite a few trips not specifically targeted. So there may be good chance there is some other equivalent trip, perhaps not in same date/location but different opportunity to do the same.

Last edited by mev; 11-07-14 at 07:32 AM.
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