Proof of Concept: 1 x 9 Touring Bike
 

Hi Touristas,

If you caught the thread on REI's new "adventure" bike, there was a nice drawn-out discussion on the merits and demerits of a 1 x 9, 10, or 11 drivetrain on a touring bike. Since a triple ring is seen as standard for most touring bikes, even the idea is bound to spark a lot of strong rhetoric and condemnation.

So, I thought I'd try it out, and report back, and i'm really stoked.

1 x 9 Ice Biking on Mt. Greylock

I'll do a write-up on my drivetrain choices tomorrow if anyone's interested in the specs I'm running.

Two things:

Number one, I don't think it's useful to turn this thread into a "You can tour on anything" clone. I'd love to hear feedback but if it just turns into an argument between purists and peacemakers, it's not fun for anyone. I'm NOT saying that 1 x 9 is better than 3 x 9 or 2 x 9, just that it is an option and it doesn't automatically eliminate hill climbing on a touring bike for strong riders with light loads.

Number two, I did actually climb the entire mountain. I stood for some sections, but most of it was seated in the saddle. I just pedaled very slowly, with a lot of tension on the chain. I had about ten pounds on my back, so I was not fully loaded, but I might not be here typing if I tried to descend that peak with panniers. That test will come later.

Kelley climbed it too; her touring bike has a much more reasonable 22 tooth chainring on a triple.



The news is good, though! 1 x 9 is working so far! More thoughts to come.

Glorious insanity......the conditions not the gearing.

The only issue with 1x9 is the cross chaining. I can certainly see doing long tours with a 36t or 34t chain ring and a 12/36 cassette. I run a 1x6 freewheel on my around town bike and I've ridden from London to the North East of England on a single speed using 67".....I actually had a bail out ratio of 38" for some steep climbs over the Moors, but I just used 2 gears the entire tour. Sometimes it's fun to challenge yourself to see what you can do with less.

I have a date with my bike mechanic to try and diagnose the faint sensation of vibration in the bottom of my cassette (currently 32, soon to be a 36). Is that cross-chaining I'm feeling? It wasn't so bad that I felt like I should stop, but it was noticeable at slow speeds.

I also noticed my bar-end shifter pulling itself down. I chalked it up to accidental bumps, but maybe I'm pulling the derailleur arm with my chain...?

Good things to diagnose. If anyone has ideas, do tell- otherwise, I'll let you know what the shop thinks.

Liked the blog post; sounds like a great ride. My question about the 1 x 9 gearing for touring is why. Simplicity is great but what is the down side of 2 or 3 chainrings up front? You were standing up for parts of that ride; why not have a bail out gear on a multi-day tour? Your knees will appreciate it.

Fun report! Sometimes, a little added challenge is just what you need. :thumb:

I can understand the challenge aspect. I assume that's what it is all about. My problem with standing on climbs occurs in high altitudes. For me, 10,000 ft + above SL. together with being out of the saddle, will make those pretty black dots appear.

This is interesting--I'm considering the same for my next touring bike. I see quite a few MTBers out here with a 1x10 set up. Losing the front derailleur is attractive to me. Thanks for the discussion.

PS: I agree with your qualifier about strong and lightly loaded.

It might be cross chaining, or maybe you just need to adjust the derailleur a tiny bit. Is your front ring in line with the center of the cassette so that you minimize the angle for the top and bottom gears?

I think 1x9, 1x10, or 1x11 are all reasonable options.

On recent tours I found that I am fine with a similar range of gears with my 2x7 (ultracompact double and not very wide range cassette). If building from scratch I'd consider a 1Xwhatever.

I find that cross chaining is more of a problem with multiple rings when the chain is on one ring and rubs another or the front cage. I don't see it being a big issue for a properly set up 1Xwhatever. Do as nun said regarding chain line and it should not be a big issue.

I ran a double for a while, first 34/50 and then 34/46, and finally scrapped the derailleur altogether and got a 38. The standing sections, I was climbing slightly slower than usual, since I was riding with Kelley and she intelligently maintains an easier pace. When I climb mountains on my own, I tent to really pound through them.

I figure I have the holy grail of 1 x 10 traits, by chance or by self-fulfilling prophecy:

1) I travel light. When I overnight with Kelley, I have about 18lbs of gear and when I tour alone in the summer I have less than 10lbs.

2) I'm strong. Still young, with good strong legs and no knee problems whatsoever. I figure I have the muscle to protect my joints if climbing is arduous once in a while.

3) A 38 front with a 36 rear (which I'm waiting on order from the LBS) should be pretty close to my old setup of 34 front and 32 rear. So, I'm not actually making a huge sacrifice at the bottom. And 38 x 11 is still a good enough ratio to keep up on a group ride, assuming I brought my road tires...

I will look into the cross chaining and derailleur issue. I'm actually learning how to build bikes, and I did the conversion myself (under supervision of my mechanic). Since all the cabling and derailleur adjustment was done by me, it might need an extra set of eyes.

10 pounds is not touring. People tour on fixies and SS bikes as well. Good luck with that. If it works for you, great. YRMV. Studded tires work great on ice roads, much safer too. The 1x10( or 11) is very popular with the mt bike crowd. 26 -38 up front, 42 -11 rear.

Respectfully disagree. I did 1,500 miles over four states in 30 days, no hotels and no campgrounds, 8 pounds of gear. We wild camped every night using hammocks.

https://maxthecyclist.files.wordpres...-tour-2012.jpg

mdithey, You may need to adjust the chain line, in particular if the sensation is more pronounced at one extreme. No way I could diagnose from this distance, but my triples' middle chain ring traverses the entire width of my cassettes without a murmur at the extremes. My guess is that you will have roughly a 27-89 GI range. Certainly good for some hilly light to medium touring, my light touring/distance bike (road race) has a 32-98 GI range for comparison.

Brad

I think your going to find that it will be great for some routes while being very sub-par on others. I pack reasonably light, 20 lbs and am relatively fit, but after 80 miles and 9000 feet of climbing a triple or wide compact double is the difference between having fun and struggling through with a 1x system to say I did it and prove the naysayers wrong.

Do what makes you happy, but I don't understand your motivation to run the single ring. I think they really only make sense in situations where chain retention is a problem, MTB and Cross bikes. Even on a cross/mtb, gearing is not optimal. Many of the Euro pros still run a double because of this.

There is virtually NO downside to running a front der on 90% of bikes with minor weight penalties being the only real disadvantage. If your dropping chains on your touring bike something is wrong. I ride (race) my cross bike through mud, sand, bumps, jumps, bunnyhops, etc....yes I drop my chain, but is the exception rather than the rule. I honestly don't think I have ever dropped my chain on my touring bike, at least not that I can remember...same goes for my road bike.

Also, it will severely compromise your bikes unloaded performance, especially if you plan on doing any group riding.

If I were you, I'd opt for a compact double w/med cage rear der and corresponding gearing, you'll have a more versatile setup and it will make riding more enjoyable if you happen to pack more than you thought or are having a bad day.

cool to find this thread. looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.
i'm 1x10 on my krampus, rough stuff touring bike. that is soon to go rohloff, just waiting for parts.
i like the simplicity of it all, and don't find there to be a limitation, its all in ones head what the limits are.

Group riding is a big question mark, but I can move pretty quickly at the top end of my cassette. The group riding I do is primarily century rides and randonneur-style events, so pounding away at the pedals on downhill sections isn't a necessity. I can clock up to 35mph pretty easily using my 38-11 ratio to accelerate into an aero tuck. My cadence will not be perfect, so that's another sacrifice.

The motivation for losing the front derailleur is pretty much exactly what you're talking about- I do a LOT of off-roading, bikepacking, and exploring. I jump curbs and slam roots and bounce over dry streambeds. I drop my chain pretty regularly; you can see the scratches on my old crank arms, and my new ones unfortunately...:

http://maxthecyclist.files.wordpress...8/md025131.jpg

There are other benefits. A simpler system reduces maintenance, reduces potential problems with mud, ice, the errant crash, etc. It reduces the spare cables I need to carry in remote areas. No cable routing along the bottom bracket reduces the potential for freezing and/or corrosion. The weight savings isn't first on my list, but it's considerable; I lose a cable, housing, a chainring, a front derailleur, and a shifter.

From a riding perspective, it is absolutely beautiful to never worry about cross-chaining (assuming I adjust my chainline- you guys were right, it leans towards the smaller side of my cassette. I will have to move the chainring). The bike responds instantly to a gear shift, from the lowest to the highest gear.



Right now I'm enjoying the positives. Time will tell if the drawbacks begin to outweigh them. I have my front derailleur and my compact double rings in a box, waiting to be called upon if I need them.

Many of your benefits are not issues for most people truth be told. Front cable breaks (never happened to me in over 20,000 miles) take the damn thing off or leave it and fix it into position and keep going. Needs little to no maintenance even when the cable gets gummed up, it still generally works ok, unlike a rear der.

The main reason a 1x system makes sense is for positive chain retention...but like I said, for a properly 2x setup system, it is generally not a problem unless racing cross or at XC race pace.

Don't discount technique involved in riding smooth either, I notice a lot of the lower cats at the cross races drop chains a lot more often than the upper cats. Shifting at the right times, not cross chaining, etc also has a lot to do with it.

i dispensed with FDs in 1995 (i always considered them an engineering abomination) and RDs in 2005. never really considered going back.

a month or so ago i slapped about four extra cogs on one of my SSs and put on my old Dura-Ace RD and my clamp-on downtube friction shifters. two cogs were smaller than the single one i usually run and two were larger. funny thing was that i thought i would enjoy going up hills in the lower gears, but it turned out i never used them, knowing, i guess, that i was fully capable with the higher gear i usually used. the higher gears were used on a slight downhills and with a tailwind. i removed the RD after about five or six rides.

trouble is, i really like that old Dura-Ace RD and those Shimano 600 clamp-on downtube friction shifters with the little gum rubber lever covers. :lol: and the shifting action on those hyperglide gogs is fantastic.

Huh? Why do you say that? I went coast to coast with a bit more than that and was fine camping and cooking and later did a tour in the Rockies with about that much. What is that if it isn't touring? I don't think there is a maximum or minimum load that is required to call it touring.

8 lbs, I stand corrected. And amazed. Clothes? Sweater, sleeping bag? Rain coat? cookware? Fill me in please. I love my eno double nest, plus bug net plus tarp.

Clothes:

Wool Shirt x1
Wool Tights x1
Wool Socks x3
Bike Shorts (also wool) x1
Synthetic T-Shirt x1
Fleece Jacket x1
Running Shorts x1
Underwear x1
Raincoat x1

Slept and rode in wool, washed everything whenever I could in lakes, spigots, and the occasional washing machine at family's houses once or thrice. It wasn't as filthy as it sounds, wool is antimicrobial and washes well.

Sleeping bag was a lightweight fleece bag with a nylon shell. Lowest temperature was 40º, slept fine. Sleeping pad was a full-size NeoAir.

Shelter was a hammock with a bugnet and rain fly, weight was 2lbs total.

No cookware. Well, I had a spork. I made lots of hummus wraps, ate a lot of CLIF bars, and lots of other non-perishables and fresh fruit.

Camera was stored in my camelbak, along with some water and tools. Food and additional water was stored in the frame bag and bottle cages. Hammock, sleep clothes, fleece, and air mattress rode in the drybag strapped to the rear rack. Sleeping bag was strapped on to that along with a pair of off-bike shoes.

We climbed Mt. Cadillac, The Pinnacle Trail, The Hurricane Mountain Road, and Mount Greylock. We also visited/rode the Kangamagus Highway, Acadia National Park, the National Seashore in Cape Cod, the Green Mountains and Lake Champlain, The White Mountains National Forest and Mt. Washington. We stayed with family three times, but slept outside. That just let us home-base to explore Cape Cod and Acadia for a few days each, mostly.

Total mileage was 1500, longest day was about 105 miles, and beers consumed in a single evening is also an impressively high number that I don't care to mention.

I go the bivy and tarp route with cooking gear. On my last coast to coast trip I had rain gear, cooking gear, a down bag, and just generally all the stuff folks usually carry only more well thought out and lighter versions. I was at 14 pounds of gear on that trip even with extra shoes and have managed to trim a good bit since then without losing any functionality. I was fine with an overnight low down in the teens once and lots of nights with frost. I now find I can easily get well below 10 pounds gear and baggage weight if I don't splurge on too many extra "luxury" items.

It isn't up to date with my latest gear, but I wrote an article on my quest for a lighter load at:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Ultralight

Beyond concept.
Reality, YES.
Have around 16000 km on my 1x9 touring/utility bike.
Set up is a 36 t chainring with 9 spd 12-36 cassette, 40-622 tires.

Ooh! Awesome! Almost exactly what I'm running, except 38 instead of 36 for the front ring!

Have any pictures? :)

Wow, what an adventure! I'd urge anyone who is just perusing this thread to go back and read the blog post.

Congrats for making it up (and down) the mountain safely under those conditions.