Probably because an animal die so that we can be comfortable? :crash:

Just joking :D (i happen to be using a B17, before they started selling C17/C15)

I use a B-17 and just love it! At first I was super skeptical but the B-17 was lightyears better than the stock Bianchi saddle that came with my bike. I've had mine on for over 4 years and it still feels really nice. Just a tip for those of you with the Brooks...the instructions say to only tighten the saddle about 1/4" or so after every year. Over-tightening or under-tightening might be the key as to why some don't like the saddle (among other things)

If you dug down into the numbers, I suspect that you would find far more people buying the latest plastic saddle because of "style". Brooks doesn't have a large enough share of the market for "style" to be much of a driving factor in sales.

you know, from what I hear from people I know, from what I see in stores, and what I see in advertising, the whole business side of "searching for the bicycle seat that is comfortable" thing is probably a big money maker for bike stores and companies. There is always newer and better, and while I have absolutely no issue with new stuff and finding better ways to make things more efficient or more comfortable, my take on it (and this topic of the cost of a given bike seat) is that lots and lots and lots of people buy different seats over the years trying to find one that works for them.

Absolutely there is no given seat that works for everyone, but I strongly suspect tons of people have spent reasonable money on a seat that ends up getting replaced long before it is worn out because they buy and try a different one. Idealy folks will spend X dollars on one that works well and use it for years and years, but I figure loads of people spend 2x, or 3x looking for "the one", and the advertising certainly helps this along.

No diff I guess than with bikes, or cars, or whatever in our consumer society.

Granted that not every saddle works for every rider, but I suspect that if folks just spent more time getting used to whatever saddle they have that the majority of searching and buying could be eliminated.

I almost never see Brooks saddles on commuting bikes that are parked downtown in my community or on campus. Many of these bikes see more miles per year than many of our touring bikes.

I store my errand bike outside. While I leave a plastic bag over it to keep the UV and most moisture off of it, I still do not want to subject a leather saddle to the weather like I do the rest of that bike. Thus, I use a cheap plastic saddle on that bike, although it is not very comfortable.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=429251

Where you really should look for Brooks saddles is in a hiker biker campsite on the Pacific Coast or the GAP/C&O or other place where there are a lot of touring bikes.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=429252

Or some other place where you see lots of bike tourists.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=429253

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=429255

Or on a long distance ride. Bicycle Quarterly published a survey of equipment used in 2007 Paris Brest Paris Rando by riders from USA, 50 percent used leather saddles.
http://www.bikequarterly.com/BQPBPEquipsurvey.pdf

But you still will generally find at least half the riders do not use leather. No single saddle is best for all riders.

Never underestimate the market share of vegans and vegetarians who will not purchase animal products. Especially the younger market who want to be fashionably Brooks but refuse to even own leather shoes. It would be foolish for Brooks to ignore this market. Funny how the "concerned" amongst us are more comfy with petroleum products under their feet and arses than the natural stuff. :innocent:

Of course, the natural stuff is made of petroleum nowadays too. They feed petroleum to the corn, the corn to the cows, and the cows to us. Wait...are we petroleum creatures too???:eek:

This may say a lot about Brooks comfort but in such a tiny, specialized market share. Long distance cyclists alone would not keep a saddle manufacturer prosperous.

I'm not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet about Brooks. No one is saying that you have to ride on one. You tried them and have moved on...so move on. As to the "younger" market, my local co-op is just chalk full of people with bikes that are part of the "younger" market, Brooks saddles are still a rarity. The vast majority of bicycles that come through the doors every Saturday and the ones that are hanging on hooks for the service department don't have Brooks on them. Brooks just simply doesn't have that much of the market.


No, they don't "feed petroleum to the corn". Fertilizers are made from ammonia and petroleum has low levels of nitrogen from which to make ammonia. The air has far more.

And Brooks is a tiny specialized saddle maker. They make 80,000 saddles a year. Their parent company, Selle Royal, makes 80,000 plastic saddles a day. It's not like the world is going to be overrun by Brooks saddles anytime in the near...or far...future.

Again, you don't like them then don't ride them.

I think Joeybike meant natural gas when he said petroleum, a lot of natural gas is used to make fertilizers.

The Haber-Bosch process needs hydrogen to make ammonia but natural gas is just a convenient source of hydrogen. Also with his "natural stuff is made of petroleum nowadays too" implies a modern (and nefarious) development. Haber-Bosch is just over 100 years old. And the practice of feeding corn to beef has been around for quite a while as well. Widespread here in the US since the 1950 but I'm not sure about cattle in Great Britain.

I tend to agree, and I suspect too that there is improper positioning going on, simply not riding that much, diff stuff like that that leads people wanting to get "the best seat", plus we in the first world like buying stuff.

as you have mentioned numerous times, I too am too much of a cheapskate about certain things, I rode for years and years on seats that were ok but not the end of the world for comfort, never had saddle sores or stuff like that, even on longish tours, so I just rode on them.

I really only thought of getting a new seat because I really did need one, and figured what the heck, might as well try these Brooks thingees as I was going to spend some money anyway. In my case, there really was a diff in comfort once I got the positioning figured out and whatnot, hence my positive remarks.

they heard you a few years ago and listened:

BROOKS ENGLAND LTD. | TOURING+&+TREKKING | CAMBIUM+C17+LTD+EDITION

That's what really appealed to me about Wallingford Bikes. They have a 6 month guarantee on their Brooks saddles. If I wasn't happy with my saddle at any time those 6 months ... I could return it. The only loss to me would be a small shipping fee. How could I go wrong?

And then, I emailed them and chatted back and forth by email regarding sizing and other questions I had ... and they were more than happy to respond to my emails promptly and professionally. That really endears me to a company ... so few know how to communicate through email.

For the first few weeks, I thought I would have return it ... and then it all settled in and I've had great success with them since.


The way I look at it is ... a good bicycle shop lets you try a saddle for a week or so (I've had a shop or two do that, and I ruled out some saddles that way). A better shop lets you try a saddle for a month or so (apparently Terry does that, and although I cannot ride Terry saddles, it is good that they have a decent trial period). A great shop lets you try the saddle for 6 months. :D

Happily, I haven't actually spent a whole lot of money ruling out saddles ... and eventually finding a good one. :)

Actually, from my experience, there are a number of factors that go into a comfortable saddle ...

-- bicycle fit. If you haven't got that right, you increase the chance your saddle is going to be uncomfortable

-- saddle height and position. Again, get that wrong = discomfort

-- core and upper body strength. I have found that when my core and upper body are strong, I am comfortable on more saddles for longer because I sit with good posture comfortably.

-- overall fitness. I have also found that when I am very fit, I am comfortable on more saddles for longer because I sit with good posture comfortably.

-- saddle time. And I have found that when I am logging 8000+ km/year, I am comfortable on more saddles for longer.

So, from my experience, if you're having a lot of trouble finding a comfortable saddle ... spend the winter in the gym and on the trainer getting fitter and stronger. It'll make finding the perfect saddle easier come spring. :)

I was so excited when I received my new Brooks B17 Select, got a great deal. I also purchased a B17s for my wife.
After much adjusting and advise on it, I just could not get used to it. I developed pain where a man just doesn't want to develope pain. My urologist finally diagnosed me with "traumatic epeditamitis". Yup, the nose being so hard crushed something I didn't want to have crushed, so even a cutout version would not help as it is not related to the perenium. He advised I go to a noseless saddle. So now I ride a Nexride.
I was so disappointed that I couldn't go with a Brooks because I thought it would be ideal for the credit card mini-touring we plan.
My wife on the other hand...LOVES HER BROOKS. She says it is the most comfortable thing that she has ever been on and it is still in the break in period. She struggled with so many others and she can't believe that she can be so comfortable on something that seems so hard.
So it just shows that it is not for everyone. I'm glad I did try one but feel bad it didn't work out and that I may be going to a bent in the future. I'm also glad I bought one for my wife and that she has not complained once since being on it.

I can't disagree with any of that.

There is one advantage the Brooks has that I don't think people think about much. People buy them with the expectation that it will need to break it in for 500 miles or so before it is truly comfortable. So they give it more time to become comfortable.

In my experience we tend to break in to saddles about as much as saddles break in to us, so if folks had that same expectation of a 300-500 mile getting acquainted period for all saddles they would have success with a wider range of saddles. I am not fussy about saddle choice, but have found that I really can't tell how well a saddle will work out without giving it a decent chance. I hated the saddle that came with my Windsor Touring at first. I left it on anyway and after a few hundred miles started to like it. I then used it for 73 days on the Trans America and was pretty happy with it.

Truth be told I would happily use any of the saddles that came with my bikes for a coast to coast length ride. Part of the reason for that is that I pay attention to the items in Machka's previous post and also that I ride with my bars fairly low. I find that a strong core, a relaxed upper body (no shoulder hunching, finger draped loosely over the bars...), lowish bars, and some time in the saddle go a long way towards giving good comfort on a long tour.

Sitting bolt upright would be torture for me and I wonder if decent comfort would even be attainable for me if I did that. It is a recipe for back pain and saddle discomfort IMO. A more aggressive posture may seem less comfortable at first but I found that easing into it starting with bars as low as I could be comfortable and gradually lowering them was a good move for me. That and working on core strength got me to where my back problems that at one time I thought might stop me from riding, camping, backpacking, or doing other outdoor activities, became mostly a non issue. Not that some targeted stretches and staying well hydrated are not factors in maintaining back health as well.

I guess you don't know too many hipsters then. Brooks saddles all over San Francisco, b/c they are cool, just like flannel shirts, beards, and skinny jeans.

A little of topic but are these Vetta suede saddles comparable to the Brooks (in terms of comfort)?

http://i.imgur.com/yOr95AU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wTkyqv4.jpg

That is just a leather covered foam saddle . the thick leather will change shape , to your butt-bones , that will not.
(I think its a 'Velo' of Taiwan made copy of a selle Italia 'Turbo' Shape)

Comfort is not a Group Outsourced Opinion , sit on it, ride for a Month of 6 hour riding Days and Find Out For Yourself. :rolleyes:


A Brooks Team professional is in the general shape category with the Turbo . San Marco Rolls and maybe the new Brooks C 15..

I have 2 of those Brooks models , From Before the Italian Corporate Buy Out, there was only 1 color they made them in, a Black -brown.

Its why traditional Bike Racing Shorts were Always Black ..

Not really, actually it's because in the early days, you had to manually change your chain onto a different gear and of course changing out your own tires meant that the black wool shorts would hide oil and grease stains.
Don't believe me, hit up Wiki