djb

Figured I'd put this up, I've never ordered stuff from the UK, but was tempted by looking at the Wiggle website the other night, three nights ago to be precise. Two of the items I ordered were on sale, and were basically half price of what it would be here.

anyhoo, an order of $235 and lo and behold, tonight right after supper there's a ding-dong and there is Mr DHL delivery guy with the box and the duty cost to pay. I'm pretty certain I put this order in after 11pm on friday night, and here it is arriving Monday at 6pm.

On $235 of bike stuff here in Quebec you will pay $35 in tax, so I had to pay that in duty and then there was $15 on top of it for duty/border fees.

I pretty much prefer to use a couple of bike stores here in Montreal, one especially because they have been so good to me over the years with repairs and parts etc and they are good guys, but couldn't resist this sale, so was pleasantly surprised to see that the extra cost in border fees ended up being very reasonable.

Roadbikedude

Yes, Wiggle and many others across the pond have some pretty quick shipping - some of their prices cannot be touched by anyone in North America. I have had some orders delivered in two days! Almost as fast as Fedex priority shipping.

headloss 

I'm waiting on a wheel set which was supposed to arrive today but got lost in the snowstorm.
Not sure how I feel about Wiggle yet... waiting to see what I'm charged by DSL. If they only charge me the 34.50 for duty/tax that I was quoted by a rep on the phone, it's all good. If they tack on any service fees when it was supposed to be "free shipping" I'll be annoyed. I like that they brought you the bill along with the package, sending a bill a week later seems to be common practice.

ct-vt-trekker

Yes super fast for me too. I ordered a bunch of stuff from Wiggle last Sunday night and I received everything on Tuesday via DHL. I was shocked only 1.5 days!! That's faster than I get stuff from all the US vendors. I'm located in CT only a couple of hours north of JFK/NY airport. No duty charged yet.

djb

imagine the efficiency of their system, to have the order thrown together into a box, get it out of wherever their stuff is, into a I presume DHL truck, to the airport, over the water and then through a processing system here in Mtl and into another truck. I can get the transport part of it, that will depend on how busy they are, if the stuff is actually all in the same bldg etc, but it is still pretty indicative that they have a pretty darn good system of workflow of the whole process.

The order was classed "free shipping", I believe over $90 or thereabouts had that option (meaning you could pay more for "fast service") so as it was free shipping, I really did figure they would go the route of regular mail, but I guess their deal with DHL works well for them.
In the end, the "duty" as basically the equivalent of our two taxes, provincial and federal, of a total of 15%, and then there was the clearly marked two handling or something fees that came to $15, so basically $15 over if I had bought stuff in a store here in Mtl.

I recall seeing an article about duty and I think it said that there is a significant diff in dollar figure at which duty is added on when bringing stuff into Canada vs the States. I think it might have been $200 here, so in hindsight I maybe should have kept the order under that, who knows, maybe it could have come through with no extra bill that I had to pay at the door to the DHL fellow.

Its curious about pricing N America vs Europe, I've seen some stuff that is quite a bit cheaper over there (Ortlieb bags for example, tires from Schwalbe) but then overall, I know that a lot of everyday things are more expensive in the UK than here. It seems to me thats its usually more expensive over there, and maybe I was just lucky with a sale.

headloss 

The only reason that I order from the UK is the Campagnolo products are actually competitively priced. Something about the manufacturer/distributer not being able to control/enforce prices in the EU...

Not sure about the $200 which I think is an arbitrary guess that someone made; it's been inconsistent in the posts that I've read. I know that when I was over seas in the military, we weren't hit with any duty what-so-ever until we exceeded $600 in claims. Not sure why it would be any different for shopping online to the US, besides the involvement of a company like DHL trying to streamline the process. I'll give them that, they're quick. I'm just not in a hurry with a foot of snow on the ground. LOL

You're right, it's quite the efficient system.

seeker333

I've had good experiences ordering UK->USA.

Bought several things from Wiggle, at perhaps 20% cheaper than the best price I could find in US. Delivered in 3-4 days.

Bought Campy from another UK dealer (can't recall name), great price and shipping again.

Bought Ortlieb backrollers from a third UK seller, got them for 109usd when 145 was best I could do in USA. Somehow the order got screwed up, delayed in their warehouse/computer for about a week, once they figured it I had them in another 3 days. I was a little worried since I bought two sets {>200).

forresterace

As a touring cyclist living in Canada, I have ordered many, many cycling items from suppliers all over the world. My most commonly used suppliers are UK-based, more specifically Chain Reaction, Wiggle and Ribble. I have learned many years ago to NEVER use courier services such as Fedex, UPS, DHL and all their ilk for shipping. I always inquire from the seller if I can use Postal Services for shipping or I won't buy from them. That is an Ironclad rule of mine. If they send by any of the above-mentioned couriers, I know that it will automatically cost me extra for brokerage fees (a scam), various taxes, etc., etc. Depending where you live and how big your local post office is, you might have to pay a Cdn Post Office flat fee of about $5 plus maybe HST taxes. I find that at my small town post office a small package will often go directly to my mailbox and even a larger box I get a notification to pick it up and end up paying NO extra charges.

Doug

djb

That's interesting in that with this wiggle order, I made it online and the shipping part at the end as far as I recall, didnt offer any shipping options like courrier vs regular mail. Just said "free shipping" and I assumed it would be reg mail,assuming this would be the cheapest for wiggle. Reinforced by it saying would arrive in 8 days or more, so was surprised by dhl being used.

That said, I basically had to pay $15 brokerage fees, which yes is a moneymaker,but hey...

So my question, how did you specifically get wiggle to ship using reg mail? Mybox was large because of a rear rack, so perhaps this was a factor.

I would add that it doesnt bother me to pay both fed and prov taxes, the extra 15bucks seems to be a standard fee no matter the invoice, which is a pain on a small order, and would deter me from doing any small,regularly priced item.

BohicaX

We also have super fast delivery from both Wiggles and Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK and a few others. If memory serves me right you don't have a choice of choosing a carrier but you do get a choice to pay a $1.00 extra at check out. What that $1.00 does is if 10 folks order the same item but the store is only holding 8 in stock those that choose to pay the $1.00 will get there orders filled first and shipped. Or if you choose to pay the $1.00 on out of stock items your order will be filled first and shipped. Many times Wiggles and CRC will ship in stock items and will ship out of stock items later from the same order when there in stock so they don't hold the entire order over.

We have the same issue in Australia DHL will try and get a sucker to pay the fee but there breaking the law by doing so and all you need to do is refuse to pay letting them know your onto there scam. You might want to check if the same applies in your country. Way to many folks here know of DHL's scam and DHL in most cases have now given up doing this but on the odd occasion they test the waters but even then if you pay and find out you didn't have too you can get a refund.

seanpatrick76

I just came across this posting while checking on wiggle deliveries. Aren't bike parts (besides clothing and tires) supposed to be duty free?

djb

Sean, I dont know, but I am in Canada so that may be different than the states if you are there.

gregf83 

Pretty much. I believe complete bikes have duty but most parts are duty free.

Tourist in MSN

Depends on where from. To USA from the UK, parts are 4 percent, so are frames, forks, etc. But a complete bike is 10 or 11 percent. That is what my research told me. So I was really surprised when I had to pay 6 percent plus $10 (USD) for a bike frame, fork, some rims and some tires in the box. I suspect that some customs agent concluded that I had too many parts in the box and jacked it up from the 4 percent.

But, smaller orders, generally not an issue. My Ortliebs (three separate shipments), one Tubus rack (one shipment), one Rohloff hub (one shipment) and a few other small shipments all were delivered duty free. I was really surprised that the Rohloff did not cost anything for duty, that was a bit over a thousand bucks a couple years ago. (Considering the current exchange rate, now is the time to stock up on Rohloffs.)

seanpatrick76

Just for what it's worth, as far as Canada goes here's a little breakdown I found of what's charged and what isn't. This is from the Vancouver Cruisers website:
Importing Bikes and Parts to Canada ? Vancruisers.ca

A complete bike falls under customs tariff #8712.00.00 - this category has a 13% tax rate PLUS GST/HST, pretty heavy especially if it's an older bike. However this rate only applies to "complete' bikes. The subcategories therein are all based on wheel size - if there's no wheels though it's not a complete bike. If you don't want to pay that 13% "complete bike' tax then get the wheels shipped separately or not at all.
Wheels are the next highest taxed category. An assembled bike wheel adds 6.5% plus GST/HST to the cost. However an unassembled wheel has no extra duty, just GST/HST! If you just want the hub anyhow then get the seller to cut out the hub and ditch the rest. Besides avoiding the 6.5% duty your shipping charges will be less since the package is going to be way smaller!
If you're just buying parts the best advice I can give you is have the seller be as specific as possible. The following items do not have anything but GST/HST added:

• Forks, fork parts, frame parts (including bearings, shocks, cable guides, fork tubing, etc)
• Wheel rims or spokes
• Hubs of any type
• Brakes of any type
• Saddles
• Pedals and crank gear and parts thereof (including bearings, etc)

There are two different categories on the tariff labeled "Other" and I think it's more or less up to the customs agent to determine what category things fall in to. Remember a customs agent doesn't necessarily know anything about bikes and they're probably going to just run down the form until they find the first category labeled 'Other' - this one is "Frames and Forks, and Parts Thereof - Other'. I honestly can't think of ANYTHING that would fall in to this category as practically every part of the frame and fork has already been accounted for.

If you can, get the seller to label things very specifically, ideally with the actual customs tariff item number. Here are the numbers and their tax rates all together:

• 8712.00.00 - Complete Bikes - 13%
• 8714.91.10 - Frame lugs, bottom bracket shells, forks, fork tubing sets, fork bearing assemblies, hydraulic shock absorbing cylinders, spring shock absorbers, rear pivots, cable stops, cable guides and back, chain and seat stays - 0%
  
• 8714.91.90 - Frames and forks and parts thereof, OTHER than the above - 5%
• 8714.92.00 - Wheel rims and spokes - 0%
• 8714.93.00 - Hubs, other than coaster braking hubs and hub brakes plus free-wheel sprocket wheels - 0%
• 8714.94.00 - Brakes, including coaster braking hubs and hub brakes plus parts thereof - 0%
• 8714.95.00 - Saddles - 0%
• 8714.96.00 - Pedals and crank-gear, and parts thereof (I'd put chainrings in here too) - 0%
• 8714.99.10 - Bicycle wheels (I'm assuming assembled) - 6.5%
• 8714.99.90 - OTHER bike parts - 0%
  

shibbyman23

Wiggle is awesome, I've saved hundreds of dollars ordering from them and have never once been hit with duties, brokerage fees, or taxes, plus they offer free shipping on orders over $96CAD? I make sure my orders are under $200 every time though. Their housebrand dhb is great as well. I used CRC before I found Wiggle but now I only use Wiggle.

estasnyc

When I ordered three sets of Ortliebs myself (not from Wiggles), these also came as separate shipments. I couldn't understand why at that time but it's clear to me now.

All of this disturbed me as being mysterious and arbitrary until I discovered the keywords "Harmonized Tariff Schedule" and could use Google to research this myself instead of having to plead for more information in the forums here.

https://www.usitc.gov/2015_htsa_basic_edition.htm (I suppose that anybody coming back to check this thread in the future should go to the parent webpage https://www.usitc.gov/)

While the point of tariff harmonization is to make the customs code for each nation throughout the world highly similar, these are not always identical. Only the first six digits of the customs code is guaranteed to be identical worldwide among all nations and trading blocs. Individual regimes are free to have differences with the remaining digits of the customs code.

I've actually discovered a relevant example (a B&M dynamo headlight) of a difference between the American HTS and European TARIC customs code:

American customs makes a distinction between lighting equipment and visual signalling equipment used on bicycles while the European Commission does not.

8512.10 - Lighting or visual signaling equipment of a kind used on bicycles:
8512.10.2000 - Lighting equipment - Free
8512.10.4000 - Visual signaling equipment - 2.7% tariff

Parts used for mounting said equipment will have the HTS code 8512.90.4000 and will be tariff-free.

Having said this, here's where I'm wondering where things may get legally blurry: While a "to-see" headlight will clearly qualify as lighting equipment and some sort of turn-light for showing directional intent will clearly qualify as visual signaling equipment, can a "be-seen" taillight be designated as being visual signalling equipment?

Also, I've yet to see where it is explicitly stated that orders under $200 are exempt from tariffs regardless of tariff schedule. I've read that orders under $200 are usually exempt but see no mention of which specific code or regulation makes it so. This may be buried somewhere in some regulation but I've failed to discover it.

Tourist in MSN

In my case, the separate shipments were each a separate order. I did not order my Ortliebs in three orders to avoid duty fees, I just ordered my backrollers on one occasion. Later my frontrollers. And then a month or two later the 31 liter sized duffel that goes on top of my backrollers.

One of my Wiggle orders came in two packages, the second one had the stuff that was temporarily out of stock when they shipped the first package.

The duty on bike parts to USA from UK at 4 percent (if you actually have to pay it) is so low that I do not consider it as a factor when I place an order. I order all the stuff I want to put on that order as a matter of convenience.

The US Dollar has been very strong against most European currencies for the past year, thus this is an unusually good time to buy stuff from Europe.

I have noticed a lot of stuff from Japan on Ebay and Amazon lately, their currency against the US Dollar has also really fallen. I ordered a couple of battery chargers from Japan on Amazon and was quite happy with the results, but I found that shipping from Japan was slower than I expected.

estasnyc

You're right. The American customs duty isn't that bad in and of itself. What's been irking a lot of people here has been the handling fees that the courier companies, other than the postal service, have been adding on. These appear to be flat fees which are comparable to the additional shipping cost for breaking up one order into two or more. It sucks for a small order but may not be such a bad hit for a really large one. It would be nice to be able to anticipate any additional fees and see it coming ahead of time.

I'll keep this in mind. I was looking at possibly getting a Hirame presta pump head to replace the one on my Silca floor pump when I scored a good deal on Topeak Joe Blow pump on Craig's List. Are there any good E-Bay deals for Shimano parts?

Sitting at home during one of the snow days this winter, I went through quite a few old threads on this subject. I didn't keep count but estimate about fifty. Most of these can be found either in the Road Cycling or the Classic & Vintage forum. The overwhelming majority of these are typically about the same subject, "Customs? WTF?", within which someone will inevitably chime in "Oh, don't you know that you can be charged customs duty on stuff that you import?"

It would be nice to come up with a definitive thread on this subject that can be turned into a sticky.

Like I said, typing "Harmonized Tariff Schedule" into a search engine will get your research started and there's a Wikipedia page on the topic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_System.

I don't know where it explicitly states why there is no American customs duty required whatsoever for orders under $200. Or $100 if it's a gift.

And can the private couriers get sleazy with orders over $200 and tack on additional handling fees after even if there's no customs duty charge? I haven't heard that one. Probably because they know that this would be too outrageous.

Tourist in MSN

Wiggle and a few other companies regularly ship stuff to customers that are outside Europe. I suspect better luck when buying from a company like that.

I have only once had to pay duty, that was to the mail carrier (US Post Office) for the box with a frame and fork and some other parts. And then there were no extra handling fees or any other problems. But I have heard of scare stories about other middlemen that get their paws into the process so that they can add some extra fees.

I do not know this for fact but I suspect that it is all determined by who handles the packages on the shipping side. If shipped by Royal Mail or a govt carrier, I think it less likely that you will get an unpleasant surprise later. Maybe I was lucky so far? I recently got a package from the UK that was shipped by DHL, that one also came without any problems or fees or duty.

As I noted above, I expected to pay duty on my Rohloff hub, but the mail carrier brought it one day and he did not need a check. So, that was a pleasant surprise.

I bought one bike frame and fork from someone in Canada. But, he lived in Canada and worked in the US, so he drove across the border several times a week. He simply shipped it from a US shipper instead of a Canadian shipper, problem solved.

estasnyc

This is why the consensus here is that you should prefer to have your order shipped by government courier (Royal Mail & USPS in your case)

I've heard of Rohloff hubs but am not familiar with these. Are these internal-gear hubs? If these have more than three speeds then the HTS code should be 8714.93.2800 with a 3% duty rate. Maybe you got away with using the HTS code 8714.93.0500 or 8714.93.1500 for which there is no tariff and nobody bothered to look closely. (See https://www.usitc.gov/publications/do...er/1501c87.pdf if you want to look more closely)

Anyway, these extra fees (not including the actual customs duty) that I've read about appear to be calibrated to be less costly than to break up an order into two or more and have to pay the additional cost for separate shipments.

So, going forward, maybe a good rule of thumb will be to factor in the estimated shipping cost for an extra order when comparing prices between domestic and foreign vendors?