RiseAlways

So I have a Blackburn Expedition rear rack and I picked up a set of Planet Bike's "Cascadia" fenders...and I'm looking to mount them on my '83 Miyata 610.
The rear drops have one set of braze ons so the rack's struts and the fender struts will both need to utilize one set of braze ons.

Their installation instructions are a bit cryptic and looking at the Blackburn rack,.......
I can see how it will all go together fine, I just want to be sure I install the fenders correctly with the rack struts to get the most out of my mounting to keep the rack secure and strong. Guys usually have tips or little things they've found to work better than other things, etc.
(are you gus mounting inside or outside the rear drops?...under the rear rack struts?...etc??)
Anyone running the same setup?...(or at least Cascadia fenders and a similar rack?)

I also picked up an old Jim Blackburn low front rack, haven't mounted it yet, but I'll be doing that tonight.

Any help is greatly appreciated. (feel free to post pics!)

Wanderer

Always mount to the outside of the mounting point, the rack strut closest to the bike frame. Then the fender strut outside of that.

RiseAlways

thats what i ended up doing but the fitment, especially the mudflap, really sucks. Not impressed with these fenders.

Tourist in MSN

For the rear, yes. Otherwise you might have a problem with a chain on a small cog.

But if it was the front, I have often run rack on the outside with a long bolt, then a fender mount on that bolt on the inside, fender held on with a nylock nut. I have also run a rear this way with an IGH because there was no danger of the chain catching on anything.

RiseAlways

How far do you guys keep your fenders away from your tires? Ever have issues with mud flaps getting caught up in your wheels? Seems these flaps are pretty close?

79pmooney

Next set of fenders, steer clear of Planet Bike and go for SKS. You will find the SKS fenders much better thought out. I have yet to find a Planet Bike fender that was stiff enough, especially in front. The rears often have rattle issues at both the brake bridge and the chainstay bridge. The fender/rack issue won't be any different so what you learn with this set will carry over to the SKS fenders.

It is sad that I am badmouthing a US firm and touting a German one. I wish Planet Bike had done things right. I have a number of pairs I bought, used for a while, then got tired of fenders that were ongoing projects. They are now hanging from the garage overhead. I still use three pairs because they are yellow or white. (Got that, SKS? Want a quick sale? Do the same.) For virtually the same price, the SKS fenders are built by people who know fenders. (I heard they bought out the Swiss Esge and the rights to their technology. Esge: another company that made good fenders.

Ben

bikemig 

Esge made great fenders. I can't speak to the quality of SKS fenders but I've been very satisfied with Planet Bike fenders. I run them on a number of different bikes with no problem.

Wanderer

I have never had a Planet Bike fender rattle, anywhere! Closeness depends on you, and the available space.

Ideally, I like to be able to look from fender edge to fender edge, and see a spec of daylight between the tire and fender, straight across the "top" of the tire. That's not always possible, dependent on tire size, and available clearance.

Closer gives you a cleaner line, at the chance you might catch something between the tire and fender. That would depend a lot on the surfaces and location you ride.

Mud flaps are a personal thing, and the longer it is, the less stuff will end up on you and the bike. My thinking, is that tooooo long is not possible!

tarwheel 

I have had a very different experience with PB Cascadias compared to SKS fenders. On my bikes, Cascadias were very easy to install and only took about 15 minutes front and rear. In contrast, SKS Longboards were a nightmare, taking several hours and repeated readjustments. With regard to quality of construction and utility, both fenders are comparable. However, I don't understand how anyone could say that SKS fenders are easier to install.

The main difference is where the stays attach to the fenders. With Cascadias, you simply slide the stays through the fender mounts, adjust as necessary, and then snip off the protruding ends to the proper length. In contrast, SKS fenders have "stay caps" that are premounted to fenders, and you have to completely remove the fenders to adjust them. The mounts that attach the stays to fenders also have a couple very small parts that tend to fall off and roll away on the garage floor every time you readjust them. I will never buy another set of SKS fenders if I can help it. They were a royal pain to install compared to Cascadias.

robert schlatte

From these pics it looks like I have the fender struts inside the rack struts and connected to a single eyelet. When I did this, I probably pulled the rack strut off, mounted the fender and then put the rack back on. You may need longer screws but it should work just fine. I have never had any problem with this set up.

Wanderer

I try to avoid having anything protrude inside the bike frame. Just more chance to scratch a wheel when changing a tire or fixing a flat, or just removing the wheel. It's easy to get the correct length fasteners (screws) to just end at the inside of the frame, right where the threads end. It might take an extra washer somewhere, to make it perfect.

When I install fenders for myself, or others, I don't ever want to hear that they scratched a wheel on a bolt I installed.

fietsbob

.02, When done the BBurn front rack should be no narrower at the back, fork blade end, than it is at the front, hoop, end..

RiseAlways

Ok,.. thanks for the tip,... much appreciated, as always!

RiseAlways

Here's what I've got so far....not sure if you guys can make out much in the photos, I can take better ones (hopefully?) later today. Just trying to get a feel for clearance,..good to go, or no...?
Right now the front has 11mm at the front of the front fender, its about that all the way around. The rear seems to have 11mm at the bottom front and then about 7mm at the rear,.... so anywhere from 7m to 11mm between tire and inside of fender.

(fyi, have to get a longer bolt for the lower bridge, that's why there's no nut on the other side.)
Thanks

fietsbob

The tight fender line in the front may mean you have to let the Puncture repaired tire stay Un Inflated until after the wheel is Back in the Bike ..

an alternate solution is use a Spring there . so it gives way when you pull the wheel , or shorten that spacer so it wont interfere with the wheel removal ..

and consider the SKS Plastic piece it goes on the fork tip and the strut loop goes in it.

that pops the strut out when a stick or something gets stuck under the Front Mudguard, It is a safety release .. avoiding an abrupt face plant.

RiseAlways

These aren't the SKS fenders with that plastic release piece, but the planet bike Cascadia fenders.

Good idea on using a spring instead of a spacer at the rear bottom of the rear fender, but the only issue I see "maybe" happening is that the spring would not hold it fast to the frame, might be loose instead??

Wanderer

I think you have pretty good lines, and would be satisfied. On exception - I would use a socket head (round) screw, for an allen head, for the rear chain stay attachment. Less chance to have anything get caught on the inside of the fender, then screw it into the chain stay bridge, or use a nylock nut.

79pmooney

Ace hardware has sweet SS pan head screws that work very well there and have heads as clean as you can get.

I have a bike where the chainstay bridge is close to the tire. Pulling the wheel isn't an issue until I mounted a fender. Then it was deflate time for larger tires. So I then started running the end of the fender to the forward side of the brake bridge.

Ben

79pmooney

My dislike of Planet Bike fenders is that the front fender, with its one set of stays and the cutout at the fork crown is not stiff enough. I always put real flaps on my front fenders. These flaps are a cupped shape of stiff plastic. This shape 1) is excellent for reducing spray and keeping my feet dry and clean and 2) creates a wind vortex pattern that at the right speed sets up an oscillating vibration on the fender. If the fender is not stiff enough, the bottom rear will oscillate a half inch or more. Irritating in its own right and worse if the fender is set close to the tire to retain some level of non-interference with feet. All of my Planet Bike fenders go into this vibration every time I take my hands off the handlebars and at higher speeds, just one hand. I improved this on one bike by riveting an aluminum sheet under the fork crown to stiffen the fender there. (That rectangular cutout for the bracket to pass through at the only place the fender has a solid attachment to the bike is VERY poor design! To use a more flexible material for the fender and just one set of stays on top of that?)

Maybe the SKS fenders are harder to set up. I just find it is a joy to set up a fender that works right from the first ride. (I like that I can customize the Planet Bike fenders so cleanly with an exacto knife but while the SKS takes more tools, they too cut cleanly and don't have issues later from those cuts if care is taken to not leave crack starters.

Ben

fietsbob

You can find the SKS Safety tabs separately .. its Your Face , do what you wish .. Just offering info.

I set My Touring bike up with a Lot of clearance over the tire .. Water mostly slings off the high center of the tire anyhow.

so that allowed the detritus to fall out with out damage .

My Koga the other end they put a slip fit molded piece, instead of those Draw Bolts , so the strut will bend and pull out rather than jam tight against the tire.


Not all springs are useful .. a web search may net a how to. Mechanics Think : bolt slips all the way thru the chainstay Brace .

spring between mudguard and chain stay brace pulls a Nut against the front side , pushing the wheel out compresses the spring which pushes the bolt thru the brace ..
nylock nut wont rattle off .. apiece of rubber tubing can do similar.. instead of or inside the spring.


Just letting the air out of the tire may Be simpler , a Puncture will, do that for you.

RiseAlways

Well, being that I've only run fenders on my old 1940s balloon tire bikes, and have never owned a pair of sks fenders, I didn't know you could buy the tabs separately,... I guess I've gotta get that crystal ball working again because my esp skills aren't up to par? haha,....

fietsbob

Its the jammed wheel that will stop too soon .. doug64 has some pictures of folded Up SKS

the Metal ones like VO & Berthould have a Small P clip on the eyelet end , the strut will bend and pull out of that In dire situations.

it about fitted just well enough to stay in place but giving way when a greater external force is applied ,,
a spinning wheel has a lot of force ..

RiseAlways

I saw Doug's pictures,... not fun!

Had noticed that on the planet bike website the Cascadia fenders HAVE the same break away mounting tabs as sks,... strange every fender set where I bought mine from didn't have the tabs in the hardware kit included? Must have been old stock.
I just called PB and left a message asking if they'd send out the missing tabs,... we'll see if that works out.
We'll see how these plastic fenders work out, then if they suck, I'll just return them to LL Bean (yeah got them there I have a local store a few miles from me, and had an old store credit so it worked out, no more cash spent!)....if the're lousy I'll look to pick up metal fenders with the small P clip on the eyelet end from VO....and go from there.

veganbikes

Just wanted to give another positive shout out to the PB Cascadias. I am about to buy another set for my new touring bike and had zero major issues with my other ones that weren't easily fixed and wouldn't have caused any serious problems. Installing the SKS fenders is a painful process.

Can't wait to see it all finished especially with the old JB rack on it. I dislike the look of it but love old touring stuff and JB made some of the best accessories back then (or at least in the U.S.)

RiseAlways

What sort of clearances do you have from tires to fenders?