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Would you use Touring Wheels on an "Endurance" Bike?

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Would you use Touring Wheels on an "Endurance" Bike?

Old 03-09-15, 09:18 AM
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Would you use Touring Wheels on an "Endurance" Bike?

As mentioned in a previous thread, I'm about ready to turn my current touring bike into an "endurance" bike. No touring load, racks, or panniers, but plenty of long riding and long days in the saddle.

I have touring wheels built right now. Mavic 719 rims laced to Shimano XT hubs, with 36 spokes in the back and 32 spokes in the front. I could build new, lighter wheels. Or, I could run what I have.


Assuming I don't have a wheelset already (because I want a real answer) and a budget of $400, do you build touring wheels or regular aluminum "road" wheels for your endurance bike?
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Old 03-09-15, 09:22 AM
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Knock Your self Out. .. On the Coast we see all sorts of gear being used every Year ,

I'll be boxing up some that crossed the country and didn't want to Ride back , Soon.


get some supple expensive tires , and go for it.

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-14-15 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 03-09-15, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mdilthey
As mentioned in a previous thread, I'm about ready to turn my current touring bike into an "endurance" bike. No touring load, racks, or panniers, but plenty of long riding and long days in the saddle.

I have touring wheels built right now. Mavic 719 rims laced to Shimano XT hubs, with 36 spokes in the back and 32 spokes in the front. I could build new, lighter wheels. Or, I could run what I have.


Assuming I don't have a wheelset already (because I want a real answer) and a budget of $400, do you build touring wheels or regular aluminum "road" wheels for your endurance bike?
I'd certainly use touring wheels on and endurance bike, but if I had $400 to spare I'd also buy a new set of wheels. You can probably get a set like a Velocity A23 rim with 105 or ultegra hubs for around $400 on the web.
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Old 03-09-15, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mdilthey
Assuming I don't have a wheelset already (because I want a real answer) and a budget of $400, do you build touring wheels or regular aluminum "road" wheels for your endurance bike?
I confess to not knowing exactly what an adventure bike is, but I used my touring bike as a distance bike for about three years due to a drought wrecking the roads. All I carried is what was normally on my distance roadie; seat bag and liquids.

I didn't notice any major drawbacks using the touring wheel set and tires. The bike would've accelerated more quickly with a lighter wheel set and tires, but I'm not sure that there wasn't a flywheel benefit once up to cruising speed. I've since installed a lighter set of tires. The tires are also much narrower and handling improved.

Brad
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Old 03-09-15, 12:27 PM
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Brad, thanks, you reminded me how unbelievably bad the roads are in Massachusetts right now. Unless they repave New England in April, these touring wheels will probably be the better option this year.

Cheers,
Max
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Old 03-09-15, 12:47 PM
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There is no reason they can't be one in the same. A719 rims and XT hubs are very heavy, probably around 2400g +/-, it's the same setup I use. You can get a much lighter wheelset, that is plenty strong, that would server double duty just as good as yours.

For $400, I'd probably look at a set of Velocity Synergy's, which should be sub 2000g @ $500 or so, but could probably be sourced cheaper than Velocity direct:

Velocity Wheels

If I were you, I'd run your wheelset, it's bombproof and reliable. They won't slow you down much on flats, possible a bit on the hills, I wouldn't care, but I know some do.

If you are dead seat on getting something lighter, I'd sell yours and get some Velocity's....or use some lighter road hubs, like Ultegras w/A23 Velocity rims, which you could probably get built up for around $500 or so.
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Old 03-09-15, 01:21 PM
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If you are using XT rear hub, you have 135mm spacing. So, there is no reason to buy a road wheel set that has 130mm spacing that would require rebuilding the hub for wider dropout spacing.

What tires do you want to use? The width of those tires, how does that compare to the appropriate inner width of your current rims? If your current wheels have rims that have the right width for the tires you want to use and the right hub width spacing in the back, keep them.

Sheldon had a good table at the bottom of this page for tire width and rim width.
Tire Sizing Systems

I like Sheldon's table better than the Schwalbe table, but here is another source of width data.
Tire Dimensions | Schwalbe North America

But, if you have a goal of spending money on another set of wheels, think about what tires you want to use, the width of the rims you want for those tires, and build up a set of wheels with rims appropriate for your desired tires. I think the steel axle Shimano 135mm hubs are just fine for rear, no need to get anything more exotic than that. For the front - if endurance wheels means needing lights, I am happy with the SP Dynamo PV-8 hub for powering lights.

The last bike I built up, I considered buying lighter weight front rim than rear, since the front has a lot less weight on it. It was an expedition bike so I was using a really heavy rear rim. In the end I stayed with the same rim for front and back, simply because as an engineer I like the symmetry of the same rim on front and back, it looks better to me. But, you seem to like ultra light setups, you could go with a different front lacing setup in front than in back because of the lighter front load, maybe 28 or 24 spokes front with 32 in back and your rims don't have to match.
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Old 03-09-15, 01:56 PM
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My buddies and I are getting ready to rando, I'm planning on using my Mavic Aksiums, very strong and 20 aero spokes. Eventually I'll add a dyno hub, I'll have to make a 24 spoke front wheel for that. If I had to go 135mm rear hub, I'd buy a front Aksium wheel and a rear, 24 spoke disc ready Aksium disc wheel.
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Old 03-09-15, 03:11 PM
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Here are the 'Ultegra' hubs I was speaking of, which are actually denoted as CX75's, but are identical to Ultegras w/disc capability:

Shimano CX75 11 Speed Centerlock Hubs > Components > Wheels, Tires and Tubes > Hubs | Jenson USA
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Old 03-09-15, 03:20 PM
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Distinction with out a difference .. The Disc need that extra Left side space 135 road wheels without dont. 130.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:26 PM
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If you want a light bike, put light wheels on it. If you want a heavy bike, leave the heavy wheels on it.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:52 PM
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Would the guys at the Laughing Dog help you build some???

I'd think about something like this:
DIY Alloy Road Wheel Kit

Or, in the USA, from the Bike Hub Store:
BikeHubStore.com
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Old 03-09-15, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gregjones
Would the guys at the Laughing Dog help you build some???
A local!!! Parker and Luke are both definitely on board. I volunteer a lot of time over at the shop, so they'll cut me a little slack, too.

What was said earlier rings true. I'd sell the current wheelset (and who knows, make another tourist) and buy a new wheelset that shaves a pound or so. The question is whether the lost durability in the process is worth it.


I've been eyeing Mavic straight-pull hubs. I'd go disc of course, maaaaybe aerospokes. I like Velocity rims, but Parker doesn't, and he might talk me into something else.

There's a lot of overlap between my current bike's wheels and my mountain bike's wheels. Same XT hubs, 36 spoke and Sun Ringle rims. So, I wouldn't miss the wheels I have now because I could just use the MTB wheels if necessary.

Width is of no concern, I wouldn't be caught dead on anything narrower than a 28mm, and that's the minimum on the rims.
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Old 03-09-15, 08:40 PM
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sounds like a perfect opportunity to build a wheelset for yourself. buy a spoke wrench (that's all you'll need despite what other's say), and watch a few videos on the web about wheelbuilding or go to sheldon browns website and follow the directions. you should be able to build up a sub 1500 gram set of wheels for about 250.
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Old 03-09-15, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mdilthey
As mentioned in a previous thread, I'm about ready to turn my current touring bike into an "endurance" bike. No touring load, racks, or panniers, but plenty of long riding and long days in the saddle.

I have touring wheels built right now. Mavic 719 rims laced to Shimano XT hubs, with 36 spokes in the back and 32 spokes in the front. I could build new, lighter wheels. Or, I could run what I have.


Assuming I don't have a wheelset already (because I want a real answer) and a budget of $400, do you build touring wheels or regular aluminum "road" wheels for your endurance bike?
I've also got Mavic A719 36h rims laced 4x to LX hubs with DT butted spokes. IMHO they make very good endurance wheels for long days of comfort at moderate speeds using 28-32mm tires. They are a bit heavier but are extremely durable and comfortable. My road bike has Mavic Open Pro 36h laced 4x to 105 hubs and they are also very comfortable to ride with 25mm tires and are a bit lighter. Unless I was doing a lot of steep hills or was worried about a minimal improvement in overall speed, I'd go with what you have for now. They are excellent wheels and will serve you well. If you just like building wheels, there is nothing wrong with having two wheelsets with different tires for different conditions.
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Old 03-13-15, 09:21 PM
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I rando on the same rims, 36 hole. You can go lighter but not much stronger. I like the reliability of a stronger wheel where I never know what roads can be like when I get 50 - 60 miles from base...
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Old 03-13-15, 09:23 PM
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I rando on the same rims, 36 hole, Phil Wood hubs. You can go lighter but not much stronger. I like the reliability of a stronger wheel where I never know what roads can be like when I get 50 - 60 miles from base...
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Old 03-14-15, 02:17 PM
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I rando on my touring bike, because it's also my commute bike that has the lights set up. If I took the racks off and put on a lighter rear wheel, it would be just as good as a "real" road bike with a couple extra pounds on it. Those extra pounds on the bike pale in comparison to what's around my waist.

Also, the touring bike is set up for long hours in the saddle; same thing I want for an endurance / rando bike.

Although it could use aero bars, but I don't know where I'd put my bar bag with cue sheet if I added that.
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Old 03-14-15, 06:12 PM
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Just use light tires and ride. The difference made by 100-200 grams less in spokes and rim weight will be negligible for steady speed riding. 35 yrs ago I would get dropped on the flats or up hills by Cat 2 riders using heavy training wheels and I had light wheels. Not until I was training at a high level that light wheels could make a few milliseconds or seconds difference but it took that level of training just to hang with these guys with my light wheels. The wheels didn't make a bit of difference the motor did. The idea very light racing wheels will make a difference for recreational fast riding is more placebo effect.
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Old 03-14-15, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mdilthey
A local!!! Parker and Luke are both definitely on board. I volunteer a lot of time over at the shop, so they'll cut me a little slack, too.
Blast from the past! I worked with Luke at the UMASS Bike Coop back in the day. Anyway, there's no harm in going lighter. You can build amazingly strong, light wheels these days.

I like Velocity rims, but Parker doesn't
I knew I liked Parker. Listen to him, he knows what he's talking about. Velocity rims are garbage. Their continued popularity is frankly mind-boggling. If you want an inexpensive rim that doesn't suck, H Plus Son is worth a look. My experience with them is more limited, so I won't give a full-on endorsement, but so far so good and they're definitely better than Velocity for around the same price.
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Old 03-14-15, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
Just use light tires and ride. The difference made by 100-200 grams less in spokes and rim weight will be negligible for steady speed riding. 35 yrs ago I would get dropped on the flats or up hills by Cat 2 riders using heavy training wheels and I had light wheels. Not until I was training at a high level that light wheels could make a few milliseconds or seconds difference but it took that level of training just to hang with these guys with my light wheels. The wheels didn't make a bit of difference the motor did. The idea very light racing wheels will make a difference for recreational fast riding is more placebo effect.

People get so wrapped up in the numbers. Lighter wheels FEEL better. That's more than enough reason to get them. There's no reason to ride heavier wheels than what is dictated by the need for durability and price. Going faster is really not the point.
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Old 03-15-15, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
People get so wrapped up in the numbers. Lighter wheels FEEL better. That's more than enough reason to get them. There's no reason to ride heavier wheels than what is dictated by the need for durability and price. Going faster is really not the point.
I didn't read the op correctly in that he wants to build road wheels for a road bike. You are correct if you're building road wheels for an unloaded road bike there's no reason to overbuild them.
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