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Sprinterí diet

Old 11-01-17, 09:24 AM
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JefferyHK
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Sprinterí diet

Hi everyone, I have some questions about what should we eat.

I have been riding track bike for 3 years, but I never thought about what should I eat, more protein? More carbs? And what helps sprinting, any thoughts? Experience?
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Old 11-01-17, 09:43 AM
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carleton
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I like to think there are stages:

Stage 1: Eliminate the crap that you consume daily (sodas, cigarettes, candy bars.) The obvious things. Remove them from your home.
Stage 2: Learn about macronutrients and energy systems. Read labels before you buy products.
Stage 3: Make better A/B choices. When given a choice between A or B for a meal/snack or shopping, chose the better option. Keep doing that for almost every meal, and you will make gains.
Stage 4: We are all different. Identify your particular dietary needs. First eliminate deficiencies.

We can't say what you need to do for Stage 4, which it seems like you are asking.

There are a million diet books out there and they are all filled with very pretty photos of things that are probably difficult to do 3-5 times a day for months at a time. The reality of the situation is that for working/studying people, dieting can be difficult with limited time and budgets.

I used to recommend the MyFitnessPal app for logging food and monitoring macronutrients. I used it for months at a time back in 2011-2014. I downloaded it again recently and it's a mess. Under Armour bought them and now the app is filled with too much stuff. I'd love a recommendation for something else.
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Old 11-01-17, 04:02 PM
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Lots of protein
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Old 11-01-17, 04:20 PM
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Ryan Bayley was known as the KFC Kid when he was racing for Australia.
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Old 11-01-17, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Lots of protein
Lots of protein sounds obvious, its good for recovering

But that not enough

Protein is not efficient as fuel, its building block for repair/build muscle, not fuel

Converting protein into glucose to use for fuel (or worse, convert to fat store) costs energy too, our body will prefer to use carbs/glycogen as main fuel

You need fast high GI carbs preload to perform high intensity workout such as sprint at maximum efforts

And you still needs plenty carbs for repair/build muscle so lots of protein just probably not good idea
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Old 11-01-17, 09:49 PM
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Diet is something you need to just work out for yourself. Everyone is different. Just don't get fat (like me )

I and another very fast friend have had great success with ultra low carb diets, but on the carbs we both fatten up quickly, so it's a personal thing. We both know another very fast masters sprinter that can't go without carbs. His performance drastically suffers. So there's no hard and fast rules.

If you're carrying fat, lose it. How that is done is a journey you have to take on your own. There's an absolute plethora of diets out there. Choose the one that best fits you and your lifestyle for long term success.
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Old 11-01-17, 11:12 PM
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Here is a web site on diet for cyclists that I found on the USAC website on 9th September of this year.
Science of Carbohydrate Loading for Cycling / Science in Sport | SiS Blog | Science In Sport Blog
This diet is for endurance cyclists but it would be a good start for sprinters and them modify it as you proceed including asking advice from coaches and sprinters at you local track.

Lots of other sites I have found in the past including on the British Cycling site and on an Australian cycling site.

Also check with your health insurance to see if it covers meetings with Registered Dieticians - I have Kaiser and some of its RDs are active cyclists or compete in other sports.

Last edited by 700wheel; 11-01-17 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 11-02-17, 06:24 AM
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I used to recommend the MyFitnessPal app for logging food and monitoring macronutrients. I used it for months at a time back in 2011-2014. I downloaded it again recently and it's a mess. Under Armour bought them and now the app is filled with too much stuff. I'd love a recommendation for something else.
I've used both my fitness pal and Cronometer I really like Cronometer
https://cronometer.com

I'm one of those guys that spends a sh%t ton on parts and if I spent the same on my body I'd be way faster. So at the end of the season instead going to Worlds and getting my fat ass handed to me I stayed home and am using that budget on retooling my body.

I hired a Strength and Conditioning coach and he's awesome. It's so much easier to get to the gym with some programming in hand and just knock out the reps.

I went to a place that measures body fat using DEXA and resting metabolism. That gave me a baseline. It cost around $150 for both.

I log my calories in Cronometer. With this strategy:

  • Eat enough calories to meet my RMR
  • get all micronutrients from food (really hard to do)
  • 1 gm of protein / pound of lean body weight
  • 125-150 gms of low GI/GL carbs ( I need that, keto, low carb ain't my thing)
  • the rest calories from fat
  • No booze (I'm an angry sober)
  • no sugar
No booze is critical. Read up on booze metabolism it ain't good. Being from Colorado there are other way more healthy options if you need a vice,, IMHO


It's working pretty well I've lost about 14 lbs since the beginning of Seiptember. I haven't been back for a DEXA scan but I calculated it to be about 12 lbs of fat and 2lbs of muscle. My 1rm squat has gone up about 10 lbs in the last month. So I'm pretty happy with that.



There's no question that a heavy lifting cycle sucks on calorie restriction. And I'm sure my gains are limited by it. But if you look at it from a strength to weight ratio the gains look pretty good for an intermediate lifter.


I'm not advising anyone do what I'm doing. Just giving you some things to chew on. Or some food for thought.


Kevin
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Old 11-02-17, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Altimis View Post
Lots of protein sounds obvious, its good for recovering

But that not enough

Protein is not efficient as fuel, its building block for repair/build muscle, not fuel

Converting protein into glucose to use for fuel (or worse, convert to fat store) costs energy too, our body will prefer to use carbs/glycogen as main fuel

You need fast high GI carbs preload to perform high intensity workout such as sprint at maximum efforts

And you still needs plenty carbs for repair/build muscle so lots of protein just probably not good idea
Getting enough protein takes care of my other macros for me. It's hard for me to eat >2g protein/kg bodyweight (vegan). Getting 200g+ of protein a day carries with it eating enough carbs, healthy fats, etc. So I mostly just focus on getting enough protein in.

Also, since max sprints are using our phosphate system, we're not burning very much glucose. Think about it: look at how many calories you burn in a sprint session. It's not much! Roadies need lots of carbs. Sprinters don't need very much.
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Old 11-02-17, 09:40 AM
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Thank you for all the great advices!!! Seems that, diet is a personal thing, will try different diet to see what fits me, thank you all again!
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Old 11-02-17, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Fast4 50 View Post
. Being from Colorado there are other way more healthy options if you need a vice,, IMHO


Kevin

regrettably, -- WADA would prefer you drink the booze if you are at a sanctioned event

sampled some "edibles" when I was in Winter PArk for some downhilling --- as long as you don't go overboard, that does seem like an interesting way to bypass the booze though
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Old 11-02-17, 02:44 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I like to think there are stages:

Stage 1: Eliminate the crap that you consume daily (sodas, cigarettes, candy bars.) The obvious things. Remove them from your home.
Stage 2: Learn about macronutrients and energy systems. Read labels before you buy products.
Stage 3: Make better A/B choices. When given a choice between A or B for a meal/snack or shopping, chose the better option. Keep doing that for almost every meal, and you will make gains.
Stage 4: We are all different. Identify your particular dietary needs. First eliminate deficiencies.
All this, and if you're eating a well-balanced diet you should not really worry about missing nutrients.

The ex has Ph.D. and post-doc in molecular biology, was the head cook at a hippie commune where she prepared vegan, vegetarian and omnivorous meals. She still sometimes lectures on nutrition. She created the foundation for my training diet.

No more than 50% of your protein should come from animal sources. People with high-protein diets have as high a cancer rate as smokers, although many suspect that is caused by heavy reliance on animal proteins, Learn to complement plant proteins. Your body can only process about 30 grams of protein per meal. Go heavy on complex carbs.

After racing I went off diet and onto the lazy American diet. I got fat and developed prostate cancer. I've had the prostate removed surgically, salvage radiation to treat a relapse, and last fall found the cancer had returned. My PSA levels went from undetectable, <0.60 ng/ml, to double that in six months. When I decided to resume racing to keep my mind off the disease I also returned to the diet the ex prepared for me. The first three months my PSA actually dropped, I got lazy and saw a small increase, then returned to the diet and the numbers once again stabilized.

Trying to figure out what happened I found out about the MEAL Study diet. It's a great all-around diet, works for my training, and it could help keep you from getting cancer.

At the end of December last year I was 63 years old, 5'9", weighed 210 lbs. and could not push 80 watts for 20 minutes. Today I weigh 160 pounds, my FTP increased to 220 watts, I can push over 1,000 watts for 6 seconds, and can do 320 pounds with one leg on the 45ļ vertical squat machine. All that in 10 months.

Here are some links to the diet plan. You can get strong with it and it just may keep you from getting cancer.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/cance...rostate-cancer

https://www.harvardprostateknowledge...d-of-treatment

Rick
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Old 11-02-17, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Also, since max sprints are using our phosphate system, we're not burning very much glucose. Think about it: look at how many calories you burn in a sprint session. It's not much! Roadies need lots of carbs. Sprinters don't need very much.
However, you replenish your phosphate stores by supplementing with glucose, to keep your glycogen topped off. If your body has full glycogen stores, it is more likely, and able, to secrete creatine and phosphates.

Strength/power athletes live and die by their CHO availability. One of my old professors loved to tell the story of one of his bobsleigh athletes who went on a low-carb diet, and showed a 10% drop in rate of force development when she was tested a week later. In actuality, your caloric needs can be quite high for sprint sessions, even with low volume workloads. Granted, part of that is also being a sprinter, which in general means you're a large, muscular individual, which means you have a higher-than-average resting metabolism. You're also burning calories in recovery from efforts in addition to the actual work you're doing.

Remember, your sessions are more than a single bout of phosphate activity. The nutrition specialists I went to grad school with always made the argument that breakfast was not the most important meal of the day, the workout window was. They were referring to the meal prior, the calories consumed during training, and the (usually) two meals consumed post training. Those meals can determine how well, in part, your training session goes, and strongly influence the next training session as well.
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Old 11-03-17, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JimiMimni View Post
However, you replenish your phosphate stores by supplementing with glucose, to keep your glycogen topped off. If your body has full glycogen stores, it is more likely, and able, to secrete creatine and phosphates.

Strength/power athletes live and die by their CHO availability. One of my old professors loved to tell the story of one of his bobsleigh athletes who went on a low-carb diet, and showed a 10% drop in rate of force development when she was tested a week later. In actuality, your caloric needs can be quite high for sprint sessions, even with low volume workloads. Granted, part of that is also being a sprinter, which in general means you're a large, muscular individual, which means you have a higher-than-average resting metabolism. You're also burning calories in recovery from efforts in addition to the actual work you're doing.

Remember, your sessions are more than a single bout of phosphate activity. The nutrition specialists I went to grad school with always made the argument that breakfast was not the most important meal of the day, the workout window was. They were referring to the meal prior, the calories consumed during training, and the (usually) two meals consumed post training. Those meals can determine how well, in part, your training session goes, and strongly influence the next training session as well.
It's still really not an issue. We store far more glycogen in our muscles than we will ever burn through sprinting. I'm not on a 'low carb' diet. I just don't go out of my way to make sure that I eat carbs, because they just take care of themselves by focusing on protein. Those on low carb diets do have to be more concerned about replenishment in the post-workout window, though. That's true.
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Old 11-04-17, 12:18 AM
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Anecdotal and YMMV but my coach had me switch to a variant of the ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, low carbs) and I saw solid gains in 6 months. Body fat dropped 4% (12 to 9) and I gained 5kg in muscle and hit PBs in the gym and on the bike. I don't know of its sustainability as it was *really* hard monitoring it, but it's something to look into.

In the end, Carleton summed it up when he said the final stage is figuring out what works for you.
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Old 11-05-17, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
It's great that you've found a diet that works for you, but if you're talking about the study I think you're talking about, I have a few qualms with it.

Is this the study you're referencing? http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...131(14)00062-X

If so, it is worth noting that the increased cancer rates were for respondents aged 50-65. The study didn't look at any adults below age 50, (with a mean population age of 65), and that the "high" protein group was anyone who reported their daily calories to be 20% from protein or greater. The study also seems to be focused on looking at what diets are capable of giving people the longest expected lifespan, not necessarily what diet will yield high sports performance.
Hi spartankid!

I just want to point out that my diet works for billions of people. It's a simple variation of Mediterranean and Asian diets. The NIH study I referenced is based on a large body of compelling evidence that suggests consuming large quantities of animal protein leads to cancer.

As for the study you cite, you are reading it wrong. It's a longitudinal study precipitated by laboratory research that indicates a link between animal protein consumption and cancer. The study supported the lab findings.

The age of the group is what I'd expect on a cancer study because it often takes decades for cancer to show up, and that age range is when cancer rates skyrocket. The paper also points out that a follow-up mortality study included people age 18 and older.

It is dangerous to suggest that athletes adopt a diet that will lead to cancer later in life.

Rick
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Old 11-05-17, 10:13 AM
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I eat yogurt after training - I switched to Icelandic style several months ago - it has high protein and low carbs.
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Old 11-05-17, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
Hi Rick,
What I disagree with is your insistence that consumption of animal protein "causes" cancer.
You sound like a tobacco guy insisting that smoking doesn't cause cancer. Your logic is just as faulty. I have to wonder, do you work for Monsanto, or one of those junk science labs at Duke University? You are using a boilerplate anti-science argument, and I have no interest in dealing with that.

Sorry, Spartankid, This line of discussion is over.

Rick
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Old 11-05-17, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
I'm questioning your insistence that consuming animal products will result in cancer.
My wife's a wellness coach, in her course of study she was exposed to a lot of research that suggests that the link between animal products and cancer is more connected to conventionally raised meat, and that consuming organic animal products doesn't have the same risk.
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Old 11-05-17, 07:52 PM
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It seems that there is a lot of "My [acquaintance/spouse/friend/doctor] read something and told me about it." in this thread. How about we settle it and cite and quote the actual sources.

“One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions.”

― Wernher von Braun

It sounds like the tests have already been done. Show us the tests. We can only gain from this. Seriously. Cancer is awful and if I can do some small or large thing to keep it from affecting anyone (including myself) I'd like to know what it is.

I like to think that I can never "lose" an argument. Not because I'm always right (I mean, I am, but....anyway ), it's because if I'm proven wrong or someone teaches me something, I still "win" by discarding old or bad information for new, good information. I've recently done this very thing with regards to track racing. My ideas on the TK1, training, and gearing have all changed in the recent past and I will certainly gain from being wrong in all of those arguments!
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Old 11-06-17, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
It seems that there is a lot of "My [acquaintance/spouse/friend/doctor] read something and told me about it." in this thread. How about we settle it and cite and quote the actual sources.
Why? The research on nutrition, much less cancer causation, is far from conclusive. I'm just suggesting there is a large body of work that suggests that the opinion stated above isn't necessarily Monsanto propaganda.

"Testing," as you refer to it, is one form of knowledge but far from the only one.
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Old 11-06-17, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kings run east View Post
Why? The research on nutrition, much less cancer causation, is far from conclusive. I'm just suggesting there is a large body of work that suggests that the opinion stated above isn't necessarily Monsanto propaganda.

"Testing," as you refer to it, is one form of knowledge but far from the only one.

Testing isn't a form of knowledge. Testing refers to an experiment.

An experiment is a procedure carried out to support, refute, or validate a hypothesis. Experiments provide insight into cause-and-effect by demonstrating what outcome occurs when a particular factor is manipulated. Experiments vary greatly in goal and scale, but always rely on repeatable procedure and logical analysis of the results.

I'm not saying you or your wife are wrong. I'm just asking you to prove it...or at least offer some sort of evidence to support your assertion.

On a related note, my friend said that if you step on a crack you break your mother's back. I haven't stepped on a crack since I heard that...and my mom didn't die of a broken back.
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Old 11-06-17, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I'm not saying you or your wife are wrong. I'm just asking you to prove it...or at least offer some sort of evidence to support your assertion.
Originally Posted by kings run east View Post
I'm just suggesting there is a large body of work that suggests that the opinion stated above isn't necessarily Monsanto propaganda.
I'm not asserting anything. In fact, I'm trying to suggest that nutrition is actually an area that has resisted "proof" in the same way we think about other problems.

Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Testing isn't a form of knowledge. Testing refers to an experiment.
An experiment conducted in the modern scientific method, or a technique which is a hallmark of that specific form of knowledge.

Originally Posted by carleton View Post
On a related note, my friend said that if you step on a crack you break your mother's back. I haven't stepped on a crack since I heard that...and my mom didn't die of a broken back.
I don't think that's related. However, modern science's inability to explain why ayurvedic diets work or even the benefits of acupuncture might be more relevant here...
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Old 11-06-17, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kings run east View Post
However, modern science's inability to explain why ayurvedic diets work...
lol

See, this statement is built on the presumption that ayurvedic diets are indeed beneficial. I'm not asking you to explain how it works. I'm asking you to prove that it works. You have not shown that it works.

Scientists can't explain why we need sleep but they can easily prove that it's beneficial.

Hey, man. If the research is out there, I'm sure a few quick Google searches would easily prove your point...right?
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Old 11-06-17, 04:51 PM
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YMMV but for me testing IS knowledge. Testing is where knowledge comes from. Anything else is just speculation and theorising.....which is NOT knowledge.

On the topic of ayurvedic diets, fro my reading, science has actually been able to explain fairly well how they work.
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