Too slow to care about frame?
03-02-22, 11:16 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Too slow to care about frame?
I'm 50 and a recreational rider (centuries, 50-75 mile weekend rides, etc.). Going to try to do my first SR series next year en route to a possible PBP in 2023, so I can cross it off my bucket list before I get too old. I'm not a high-caliber athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but I like climbing, and I have the potential to put out some moderately respectable wattage for short bursts for my age and weight.
I've only ridden track a few times, but it was super-fun. I'm moving down to San Diego soon, and I'd like to try to make it a habit. My only goal is to be able to hang with other Cat4s (maybe Cat3 some day?), have a good time, and maybe bust my ass on a good day and podium for my age group so I can check that off, too. And if I can look cool doing it, even better.
To that point, I've always loved lugged steel bikes, though I got rid of my Rivendell and old Peugeot beater when I moved to Seattle and learned the wonders of hydraulic discs. I was thinking of building up some sort of NJS frame, or maybe a Mercian track frame (I've always dug their mosaic headbadges), because it would make me happy and excited to ride.
Assuming I put decent wheels and tires on it, will the extra weight and reduced aerodynamics of a lugged steel bike with round tubes going to make a bit of difference for a 165-pound middle-aged man?
I've only ridden track a few times, but it was super-fun. I'm moving down to San Diego soon, and I'd like to try to make it a habit. My only goal is to be able to hang with other Cat4s (maybe Cat3 some day?), have a good time, and maybe bust my ass on a good day and podium for my age group so I can check that off, too. And if I can look cool doing it, even better.
To that point, I've always loved lugged steel bikes, though I got rid of my Rivendell and old Peugeot beater when I moved to Seattle and learned the wonders of hydraulic discs. I was thinking of building up some sort of NJS frame, or maybe a Mercian track frame (I've always dug their mosaic headbadges), because it would make me happy and excited to ride.
Assuming I put decent wheels and tires on it, will the extra weight and reduced aerodynamics of a lugged steel bike with round tubes going to make a bit of difference for a 165-pound middle-aged man?
03-02-22, 07:42 PM
#2
aka mattio
Will a stiff, aero aluminum or carbon frame be faster than a lugged steel bike? Absolutely.
Will the extent to which it's faster make a difference to you as a Cat 4? Probably not.
Will building and riding the kind of bike that makes you love riding, love racing, and love lookin' at it matter to your enjoyment of the sport? Absolutely.
Build up something beautiful. Ride it, race it, have fun. I've known people who've raced lugged steel at Nats (recently!). It's fine for you. If, down the line, you decide you want something performance-oriented, then buy a cheap, frank, no-nonsense alu race frame, move your parts over, and hang your pretty frame on the wall. But for now - do what you want to do, and don't worry about it.
Will the extent to which it's faster make a difference to you as a Cat 4? Probably not.
Will building and riding the kind of bike that makes you love riding, love racing, and love lookin' at it matter to your enjoyment of the sport? Absolutely.
Build up something beautiful. Ride it, race it, have fun. I've known people who've raced lugged steel at Nats (recently!). It's fine for you. If, down the line, you decide you want something performance-oriented, then buy a cheap, frank, no-nonsense alu race frame, move your parts over, and hang your pretty frame on the wall. But for now - do what you want to do, and don't worry about it.
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03-02-22, 08:14 PM
#3
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Agreed, ride what you love.
If you're thinking PBP next year, get at least a 300k in the books this year to get yourself an early registration slot. It's becoming more popular each running, and slots are limited.
If you're thinking PBP next year, get at least a 300k in the books this year to get yourself an early registration slot. It's becoming more popular each running, and slots are limited.
03-02-22, 10:58 PM
#4
Full Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by downtube42
Agreed, ride what you love.
If you're thinking PBP next year, get at least a 300k in the books this year to get yourself an early registration slot. It's becoming more popular each running, and slots are limited.
If you're thinking PBP next year, get at least a 300k in the books this year to get yourself an early registration slot. It's becoming more popular each running, and slots are limited.
03-08-22, 08:47 PM
#5
Senior Member
When I started track in 2009 (after two races in 1992) I was on a 7 lbs frame/fork/headset (99g Omas headset so the frame/fork was 6.75 lbs - we joked it was sewer pipe). I bought the frame fork from a rep for $99 - the rear triangle had been crushed at some point in its very short life so both dropouts were 100mm locknut to locknut. When I saw that I thought maybe track bikes had interchangeable front and rear wheels. Then the one guy in the shop that did track said, "Oh, it's supposed to be 120mm. Here, grab this drop out, I'll grab here, and on three just tug hard." Voila! 120mm drop out!
Anyway, I raced that in 2009. I had the same rear hub I bought with the bike (Superbe Pro, so it was nice, but a 32 spoke old school thing), and I threw on a TriSpoke front wheel that I bought in 1990 or so. It was definitely enough to dip my toes in track racing, and I had fun racing. Wheels make a huge difference when going fast (rider position is a huge factor), so I'd get a TriSpoke front and some rear disk wheel. You can get relatively inexpensive disk wheels used, and front trispokes are cheap too.
I now have a fancy bike, did some racing, and I am no better than I was in 2009. In fact I'm probably worse. But the sleek modern bike sounds cool.
On the "rain on your parade" side of things.. the M50s in SD will be really, really, really, really fast. I'm just saying that based on who lives in the area, not because I have experience racing there. You're probably better off racing the 4s and 3s. I don't know though - that's for you to discover I suppose.
Anyway, I raced that in 2009. I had the same rear hub I bought with the bike (Superbe Pro, so it was nice, but a 32 spoke old school thing), and I threw on a TriSpoke front wheel that I bought in 1990 or so. It was definitely enough to dip my toes in track racing, and I had fun racing. Wheels make a huge difference when going fast (rider position is a huge factor), so I'd get a TriSpoke front and some rear disk wheel. You can get relatively inexpensive disk wheels used, and front trispokes are cheap too.
I now have a fancy bike, did some racing, and I am no better than I was in 2009. In fact I'm probably worse. But the sleek modern bike sounds cool.
On the "rain on your parade" side of things.. the M50s in SD will be really, really, really, really fast. I'm just saying that based on who lives in the area, not because I have experience racing there. You're probably better off racing the 4s and 3s. I don't know though - that's for you to discover I suppose.
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04-27-22, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cormacf
I'm 50 and a recreational rider (centuries, 50-75 mile weekend rides, etc.). Going to try to do my first SR series next year en route to a possible PBP in 2023, so I can cross it off my bucket list before I get too old. I'm not a high-caliber athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but I like climbing, and I have the potential to put out some moderately respectable wattage for short bursts for my age and weight.
I've only ridden track a few times, but it was super-fun. I'm moving down to San Diego soon, and I'd like to try to make it a habit. My only goal is to be able to hang with other Cat4s (maybe Cat3 some day?), have a good time, and maybe bust my ass on a good day and podium for my age group so I can check that off, too. And if I can look cool doing it, even better.
To that point, I've always loved lugged steel bikes, though I got rid of my Rivendell and old Peugeot beater when I moved to Seattle and learned the wonders of hydraulic discs. I was thinking of building up some sort of NJS frame, or maybe a Mercian track frame (I've always dug their mosaic headbadges), because it would make me happy and excited to ride.
Assuming I put decent wheels and tires on it, will the extra weight and reduced aerodynamics of a lugged steel bike with round tubes going to make a bit of difference for a 165-pound middle-aged man?
I've only ridden track a few times, but it was super-fun. I'm moving down to San Diego soon, and I'd like to try to make it a habit. My only goal is to be able to hang with other Cat4s (maybe Cat3 some day?), have a good time, and maybe bust my ass on a good day and podium for my age group so I can check that off, too. And if I can look cool doing it, even better.
To that point, I've always loved lugged steel bikes, though I got rid of my Rivendell and old Peugeot beater when I moved to Seattle and learned the wonders of hydraulic discs. I was thinking of building up some sort of NJS frame, or maybe a Mercian track frame (I've always dug their mosaic headbadges), because it would make me happy and excited to ride.
Assuming I put decent wheels and tires on it, will the extra weight and reduced aerodynamics of a lugged steel bike with round tubes going to make a bit of difference for a 165-pound middle-aged man?
From my experience in your shoes - took a couple of years for it really to make a difference. Steel is perfectly fine for 200 watt speed runs. But, where it really makes a difference is jumps, acceleration, madison, short sprints. Putting down 1000 watts into a steel frame just isn't that efficient. For me, going from steel to a "real" track frame was rather like changing from a 16t to a 15t cog. But we are talking doing jumps starting at 25mph - races that average over 30 mph (Madison) and of course peak around 40mph. For the first couple of years when I was mostly in 20-25mph range, it didn't make a difference. I'll say that a stiff bike (especially at 25-35mph on a track banked at 50 degrees) is a lot more responsive and a bit easier to control.
