CafeRacer

Hey there, A friend of mine owns one and is bringing it in to have me properly build the wheels. The radial front wheel is way toooooo flexy at Forrest City Velodrome for him to ride. And the rear rim is ment for a 9speed rear wheel not a dishless wheel. (bonhead spec)

Anyways, I'm lookin for anybody who has rebuilt their front wheel 3x and can tell me the spoke lenth they used. Or anyone who has the hub dimentions / rim ERD. Normaly I would just measure it all up and plug it into my calculator but I wont have the wheel in my hands untill tomorow and I'd like to get the spokes cut and prepped tonite so when it comes time its a 20min opperation.

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Jamie

ultraman6970

between 295 and 299 mms it will do 3x cross for a rear wheel, remember there is a side that always uses shorter spokes...

Between 298 - 300 mms spokes for the front wheel.

I have a set of high flanges Campy record and Miche primato built like that. And a set of campy record low flange for the road. Np so far using those sizes of spokes. Just tight them at the end and thats it.

I have notice that with 3x cross usually between 298 - 300 mms ti will do for a front wheel. The problem is that I always use mavic gp4 rims or some like that u know (always tubulars). And the second problem is that I have no clue whats the ERD rim size is.

Go to sapim or Dt web site...and use their calculator? Use a campy hub as a master and change the rim info...

UM

CafeRacer

No wheel leaves my wheel bench if the spokes stick past the nipple by more than 1 mm. Its all about precision my friend HAHA But thanks for the tip on the Sapim calc. I didnt know they had one since ive been using the DT Swiss one for a while now.

bitingduck

there's also Damon Rinard's spocalc spreadsheet in Excel. It has the parameters for zillions of rims and zillions of hubs, and macros so you can easily mix and match.

The easiest way to find it is to google "Damon Rinard Spocalc". It may also be linked from Sheldon Brown's pages.

ultraman6970

Wheel I know how to build them but althoug i shuld know about spokes calculations... I never do them the way it should be... besides I always use the same kind of rims and hubs so once u do it... all the other sets are the same hehe...

CafeRacer

For future referance to anyone who decided to rebuild their fron Fuji front wheel to 3x it requires 284mm spokes.

ultraman6970

good to know thanks

popdelusions

I've been running the stock wheelset on this bike for training and I've been pretty happy with the wheels. Of course the first thing I did was completely detension, dismantle, and relube them, but I rebuilt as they were shipped, with a radial front and a slightly dished rear. So I'm curious about this rebuild...since that miche hub is single sided, it seems that you could go either way if you want to maintain chainline -- build it as a slightly dished wheel (thus the Ritchey OCR rim makes some sense), or add a spacer stack to the axle on the non-drive side, in which case you might be able to dish somewhat less. Did you end up respacing the rear hub? The dishing seemed to make sense to me, perhaps because this bike only ever makes left turns at speed.

brooklyn

Should everyone be concerned with the stock wheelset for the track pro? I have been riding them with not problems.

ultraman6970

The only thing i dont like oof those wheels is that they are clinchers... besides that they look quite neat

popdelusions

I don't think there's anything to be concerned about....plenty of people are out there riding 18-20 spoke radially laced aero fronts on a number of velodromes. At Kissena those wheels feel plenty stiff laterally to me on the shallow banking; I think people may be concerned about the wheels deforming radially on steeper bankings. I haven't tried those wheels anywhere else yet, so I can't speak to that.

I think the question as to whether or not to redish the rear wheel may be more a matter of preference.

popdelusions

Actually...thinking more about this, i'm totally wrong. Certainly these Ritchey OCRs are meant to reduce dish when building a road wheel, but even in the case of a single-sided track hub, if you subbed a traditional rim you'd have to dish MORE, not less.

CafeRacer

Our local track is steep 50degree banking. I've ridden wheels laced radialy there and ridden behind people with them and theyre fine untill you pick up the pace or make a move in the bank like droping and making a break. I relaced only his front wheel since the rear was already 3crossed. but I tied and solderd both of them. Much Improvment. On the note of a dished rim. Its absolutly pointless to use one. All your doing is creating a wheel that has un equal tention. In my mind on a steep banked track its a bad idea.

ultraman6970

Radial doesnt work on track so well ok? so well... it works but 3x crossing its a lot better..... lucky u guys having that track there...

UM

ZappCatt

Radial lacing on the track is fine, as long as you have enough spokes, and a hub that is made for it.
Zipp's Track specific 404 is laced radially, and they gaurantee their new hubs for radial lacing.
The High Flange DuraAce Hubs are often radial laced also..as long as you have high spoke count.

CafeRacer

It works but simply isn't as stiff as a 3 crossed wheel.

popdelusions

On the dished wheel issue, i'm still wondering...a single-sided, asymmetrically flanged track hub like the Primato (or the single-sided Phils, and some others) still requires that you build it up as a dished wheel, however slight, and the Ritchey rim does let you minimize the amount of dish required, thus equalizing spoke tension, so I'm not sure it's a bad thing in this application. Whether this hub was a good idea is another question...

fixedpip

How hard is it to learn how to tie and solder a wheelset? Any tips you could pass on or online refs? I know you just solder the wire but I'm not sure how you wrap the spokes or what kind of wire/solder to use.

CafeRacer

I'd love to give ya advice or tips. If I had any haha. I was supprised to see how well it worked out not only on my wheels but my buddies.

I used a good strenth safety wire that would wrap up tight. Leave about an inch or so sticking out and tightly wrap and buch together the loops. I did 5 loops. On the last loop twist it with the extra one inch you left. Then with plyers tighten it all together by twisting as close to the wraped part. Be carfull you dont break it. You will break a few. Neatly cut the extra off and fold the "knot" against the wraps.

As for the soldering I used a good flux and alot of it. Be sure to get it in between the spokes and loops. I used "electronicss" guage solder. It melts faster than the flux burns off. I also used a low heat torch instead of a iron. You dont need much either. Just enough to "absorb" into the wire and hold it together. Plus if you have alot hanging off it looks like junk.

When your done, let it cool and then do a really good job with soap and water cleaning the spokes and ties off. They will look burnt at first but it cleans up nicly.

I hope that helps. I basicly taught myself on my own wheels. And if you ask me, was well worth the hour and a half it took to get it right. Plus now it earns me a little cash on the side. I tried to take some pics but all I have is a ****ty camera phone, poor detail. Good luck!

JS

12XU

Cafe--20 minute wheel builds?! You must be doing something quite hastily if you can lace, tension, true, tie, and solder a wheelset in 20 minutes. Even the great Schraner couldn't build a wheelset in 20 minutes, broham.

Just read Gerd Schraener's book and you'll figure it out...

CafeRacer

Where the hell did I say I did that? Thats physicly impossible. I can lace A Wheel in 20min. A few times in the case of a very simple front radial wheel i've had it dam near true too. But certainly not a pair of wheels finished off. The 20min I was refering too, and I thought was obvious is the time it takes to measure, cut, and properly thread 32 spokes.

Maby its some clarity issue on my behalf since at times I struggle to word things(dyslexic), but I sudgest you read things through