mrRed

So I have a set of Zipp hubs lying around that are great, and I was thinking about wheel builds. The only things I know are that its gonna be tubular and I'm probably gonna go for the Sapim CX spokes and box tubulars. The problem is there are some really good deals on cane creek volos for just over $300. While I think that the Zipps will be a great build, I'm not gonna have the money to build them up proper for a while, and if I sold the Zipps (I know I probably shouldn't ...) I could buy the Volos for practically how much the hubs are.

Has anyone ridden a set of the Volos and a set of Zipps laced up to bladed spokes and low profile tubulars and could give some advice on whether it would be foolish to buy the Volos instead of building up the Zipps. The volos I believe use CX bladed spokes and come with semi-aero tubular rims.

ultraman6970

I havent riden the zipps ones, u meant the carbon ones?

I have a set of volos in here, well i havent used them yet but what I can tell is that they are great construction, they spin super nice... hope they do as many people say... thats wahy i bought them...

cya...

mrRed

No, the non-carbon zipps.

recneps

Those zipp hubs really are not that nice, bearing feel kinda ****ty theyre really heavy and ive head of people breaking them.

The volos are not bad cronos hubs are cool but truing them is ****ing horrible, 2 turns of a wrench take the spoke from no tension to full tension.

Also just over $300 is not a good deal on the volos track wheels, retail is ~300 , 280 is probably what they should be sold for.

heres a not bad deal on those wheels.

https://cgi.ebay.com/CANE-CREEK-VOLOS...QQcmdZViewItem

ultraman6970

I never imagine that zipp could do something like that

mrRed

something like what?

ultraman6970

That! === > Those zipp hubs really are not that nice, bearing feel kinda ****ty theyre really heavy and ive head of people breaking them.

Waldo

We had a bad batch of bearings a while back, so I can understand that sentiment. Haven't heard anything of breakage on those hubs but I don't keep 100% tabs on our warranty guys. The hubs are definitely not light, but they work fine for me.

ultraman6970

do you work for zipp waldo?

Waldo

Yes, I'm in engineering.

ultraman6970

Darn I just guess even the dept. you work at

Dude why the zipp hubs are so expensive? I would love to try a pair... (not pushing anything, just I thought...

Something interesting to comment? new products and stuff?

Waldo

The price of the hubs is due to a combination of several factors. It starts with the raw material, an alloy we developed with Alcoa. They've been doing a fine job of increasing the price on our raw materials while announcing record profits, but that's a different issue...
The hubs are made here in Indianapolis (so labor costs are higher than most other manufacturers) and involve the use of our SHIFT technology for forming the spoke holes. This increases strength 30% over traditional methods and more than doubles fatigue life. This is why I am curious about the anecdotal breakage mentioned by another poster-these hubs are bombproof.
The downside of this process is that it is very labor intensive-its application in aircraft wings is limited to the underside of the wing (where loading is higher) because of the time and expense.
The bearings we use are a higher grade than many of our competitors (and of many ceramic "upgrade" kits)-we use sets matched to 10 millionths of an inch. We also use a Teflon retainer as opposed to brass to save weight; this combined with the non-contact seals we use helps to lower friction and reduce wear.
Lastly, the 17-4 stainless steel we use for our track axles is considerably stronger than the 1018 steel used in most applications. The oversized axle offers increased stiffness at over 4 times the strength and twice the hardness of most axles. Even the track nuts are held to tighter tolerances than is typical.
This all adds up to a pricey hub, but I truly believe you are getting what you pay for in this case.

In terms of cool new stuff, we have some things in the works that have us very excited. This means less time to ride for lots of us I think it will be well worth it when the products come to market. Sorry that I can't provide any specifics yet, though.

ultraman6970

It is understandable all you said... u have a quite cool job, hobbie and profession all together thats the best thing ever...

BTW anybody besides me has a pair of mack hubs... https://www.pbase.com/wojtek_burkot/hubs .... cool hand made stuff. I tought I was going to regret when I bought them but when I saw them... darn!!! they shine like mirrors. I'm able to see the rim reflexion in the hub, but crystal clear... lets call it.. hmm... HD shine reflexion heheh...

UM

Waldo

Yeah, it is pretty darn awesome. I've been there almost a year now and it still seems weird.

Those Mack hubs are super cool...I tried to track some down a while back but couldn't find much info or distribution.

ultraman6970

I been trying to get another pair from the guy but he said he was busy working. The hubs are hand made 100%. Amazing job. Even the lock ring is made by hand. Sweet s...T!

recneps

From a factory built zipp 404. Evidently wheel had never been crashed or even ridden outdoors.

Maybe the bearings have gotten better but the set sitting at the shop right now dont feel so hot.

Full hub failure here. https://fixedgearfever.com/modules.ph...ewtopic&t=2811

Waldo

Thanks for the info and the link. I haven't been good about following FGF on account of time shortages. As Josh pointed out in that thread, we have since upgraded to a different heat treating process and slightly reduced the size of the lightening holes.

recneps

Yeah I actuatly just saw that comment from them, it's actuatly really cool that zipp designers will admit mistakes and stand behind their product, and even come on here to talk about them

Waldo

Yeah, we had to learn the hard way that sometimes when you push the envelope with new alloys, the envelope pushes back. Fortunately, we're able to quickly react and rectify the problem since it's all done here in Indy, and move on to hopefully bigger and better things.

CafeRacer

Working in a shop and with alot of Tri / TT / Track guys Zipp's biggest problem isn't its bearings. That can be fixed quickly. And even at that, you can put better ones in. The problem is quality consistancy. Last year while building up a teams bikes I pulled 5 of the same model wheel out of new boxes. All 5 felt differant, 2 had non repairable loose hubs because the tolerances were so off. My track disc had the same issue. Ive also seen many of them come new very out of true. In the long wrong the end customer doesnt see that because I fix it before they ride it.

What is Zipp good at though. Fixing issues with customers. Theres a pic of a broken Zipp high flange hub, but remembering correctly they didnt ask, just replaced.

ultraman6970

hmmm

troy72

Yep, I've got a pair of those beauties. Low flange 32 hole. They are a site to behold aren't they. I would not be at all suprised if I've got the last pair sold on the U.S. It was very difficult for me to transfer the money to Poland. Pay pal, Western Union, and one other foreign financial outfit I can't remember the name of and was not happy about giving my financial info to all declined to send money to Poland. I have no idea why. I contacted paypal numerous times and all they would say is they were no longer sending money to Poland. The only alternative left was for me to wire money directly from my bank account to his account. This alternative came with a steep fee and I was none too pleased. Mack assured me I would not be dissatisfied and was trusting enough to mail them here prior to me paying for them. Lovely to say the least. My pair weighs in at something like 342 grams for both with bolts and the most beautiful lockring ever made. Nothing short of incredible. With an extensive search in Polish it is possible to find schematics on these bad boys as well as see the machines they were made on. To whoever posted that the Steinwerks are more refined I would respectfully disagree. The pictures at the Gromada web site do not justice as you well know. Sometimes the reflections that I see out of the corner of my eye from that spinning front hub scare me. Anyways to make a long story short and possibly solve the mystery of "Where are Mack hubs and do they even exist?" I offer this simple explanation. I just registered with bike forums yesterday otherwise I would have posted this sooner. It will be reassuring when either the Keirin Berlin site or Gromada starts kicking these things out but it's also pretty cool that I've one of about 10 pairs (so much as I gather) that were sold in the U.S. and say Mack on them. Cheers, Troy

ultraman6970

When did u get yours??? So far I remember I got the last pair that was sold in ebay last year... and I agree in the fact that they shine and see the mirrored image of the rim in the hub is super cool.

I agree in the fact that the lock ring is one of the beautest things i ever seen... I have pictures abut hos the get the hubs taken apart for repairs... mack sent them to me...

Do you have pictures of yours built??? what rim did you put in there? I put a set of araya adx-4 tubular laced with sapim in the back and wheel smith in the front... I had to pray to find the washers, but a friend of mone told me where to get them hehe....

Do you have pictures?

UM

troy72

Mack received payment of my wire transfer on Feb 17, 06. The auction must have ended two or three weeks prior. I'd been watching ebay closely or at least I thought so for new ones to appear and never saw any since so I assumed no else had bought them. Thinking about it a little more I think I contacted one of the other people who bought the hubs(the whole thing seemed fishy at the time) and I vaguely recall something about that person using a Luxenbourg pay pal account. I still think it's weird paypal doesn't transfer internationally with Poland. War on terror?

Anyways I have them built up on DT Swiss RR1.1 with revolution spokes and Continental GP4000. It was a good choice but now I'm sort of wishing I'd considered tubulars. I'm a heavier rider and seem to get an unusually high number of flats even with the pressures up. I've considered posting the bike to FGG just because I haven't seen a set of Mack hubs on there yet. I had them built up by Ben and Gene at One on One Bike studio in Mpls. and these wheels are so nice and stiff and smooth and last but not least silent. I really owe them some beer. My camera is an exercise in frustration. If I post the pics I'll let you know.

Your build sounds awfully nice. That sounds like a incredible combination. Seriously light. What kind of repair did you have though?

ultraman6970

feb 06??? I think I bought mine after that... june or july 2006... I even ask in agoust to Maciej how to take appart the hubs and he sent me the pictures... I paid using paypal... no problems. After he sent me the pictures of how overhowl the hubs i havent heard a single word from him besides that he was super busy with order, so I assume he is a star in europe now hehe...

what kind of repair did i thought?? Dont understand what do u mean... because of the washers?... the araya dx-4 are aero rims w/o any kind of eyelet, u need to get nipple washers or you can screwup the rims big time.

UM