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"Dear Carleton"

Old 04-13-12, 03:14 PM
  #2451  
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Jaytron, start reading first then posting your question here: http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...-Training-Area
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Old 04-13-12, 03:20 PM
  #2452  
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Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
Makes sense, haha I'm still out of shape, so I'm sure anything helps right now.

Will do. There are a ton of races once the season starts. I think Tuesday/Wed/Friday nights, with practice sessions Saturday/Sunday.

As a Sprinter I should concentrate on: dead lifts, squats, etc? Are there variations of this I can do at home, without weights? I've seen videos of trackies practicing their vertical leap?

When you say ride your road bike, is there anything you concentrate on in particular (since you said climbing doesn't really help me)? Or just ride?
Dude, just get yourself one of these:

Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
This is sure to end up on the wall of shame.

http://www.exycle.de/indexE.php

You'll be mad buff and awesome in no time. Well that or dead.
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Old 04-13-12, 03:21 PM
  #2453  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post

What's wrong with periodization now? Nothing, in my opinion.
Absolutely nothing.

He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.

This is what I was trying to get at:

Originally Posted by carleton View Post
As a beginner, in terms of training, doing anything regularly will make you faster. From the bottom, there's nowhere to go but up, right? The key is to make the most of your limited time.
Also Jaytron, how do you know you're a sprinter?

Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
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Old 04-13-12, 09:08 PM
  #2454  
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So that exercise cycle thingy is actually fairly clever and technical, to be perfectly honest. It doesn't change the fact that it's super goofy, and I would definitely never get one.
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Old 04-13-12, 10:21 PM
  #2455  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
As a beginner, in terms of training, doing anything regularly will make you faster. From the bottom, there's nowhere to go but up, right? The key is to make the most of your limited time.
+1
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Old 04-13-12, 10:52 PM
  #2456  
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http://bg.keirin.jp/en/depth/school/index.html

Seems like these guys climb for an hour a day at very high intensity.

"/notcarleton"
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Old 04-14-12, 08:52 AM
  #2457  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
Absolutely nothing.

He can and will certainly see accelerated gains if he chooses to do this (periodize).
He'll also probably see gains if he continues to just "JRA" as well call it in the 33 (just ride around), atleast for a little while.

This is what I was trying to get at:



Also Jaytron, how do you know you're a sprinter?

Because you're bigger isn't a good answer
I have no idea. HAHA I just assumed so, because I'm decent at it.
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Old 04-14-12, 09:47 AM
  #2458  
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Just curious, but how do you think a professional keirin racer would do against a professional track racer like awang or chris hoy? i'm pretty sure the keirin racer would not really stand a chance, but what if he was using a newer, stiffer frame than the steel njs frames? would it make a differnece?
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Old 04-14-12, 09:57 AM
  #2459  
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Originally Posted by jpsawyer View Post
Just curious, but how do you think a professional keirin racer would do against a professional track racer like awang or chris hoy? i'm pretty sure the keirin racer would not really stand a chance, but what if he was using a newer, stiffer frame than the steel njs frames? would it make a differnece?
Wouldn't stand a chance.

Like bringing a knife to a laser cat fight.
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Old 04-14-12, 09:58 AM
  #2460  
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What about in a karate fight?
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Old 04-14-12, 09:59 AM
  #2461  
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Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
What about in a karate fight?
Das racist!
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Old 04-14-12, 04:38 PM
  #2462  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Das racist!
You know that all the Germans will be mad now, it's denn racist
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Old 04-14-12, 08:17 PM
  #2463  
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Anyone hear the band "Das racist"?

Those keirin riders are by no means slow.

Chris Hoy is just... insanely, insanely fast and strong, and seemingly unstoppable right now.

Also, I would never discredit climbing as a viable training method to increase strength. At high intensity it will most certainly increase strength. If anyone is concerned about climbing developing different muscles, just find a lower grade and mash up it repeatedly.
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Old 04-14-12, 08:57 PM
  #2464  
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Originally Posted by gigantor View Post
Those keirin riders are by no means slow.

Chris Hoy is just... insanely, insanely fast and strong, and seemingly unstoppable right now.
Yeah, the Keirin guys aren't slow, but I don't think they would do well on the international pro track circuit in general...not just against Hoy. The qualification standards for Keirin school aren't that high. Actually, I think I meet the time standards (which isn't saying much).

I can safely say that ANY sprinter from a UCI World Cup event can easily qualify and race on the Keirin circuit with no problem. The other way around is not true.

Originally Posted by gigantor View Post
Also, I would never discredit climbing as a viable training method to increase strength. At high intensity it will most certainly increase strength. If anyone is concerned about climbing developing different muscles, just find a lower grade and mash up it repeatedly.
Doing one-legged squats while holding chickens in each hand will make someone strong...that doesn't mean it's the best way to train for track racing.

YES, you *may* hear hills mentioned in some track training programs. But, it is never the core of the program. It's simply a supplemental exercise...like the bench press or lunges.
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Old 04-14-12, 10:00 PM
  #2465  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
YES, you *may* hear hills mentioned in some track training programs. But, it is never the core of the program. It's simply a supplemental exercise...like the bench press or lunges.
+1 Knowledge bombs!

Originally Posted by carleton View Post
The qualification standards for Keirin school aren't that high. Actually, I think I meet the time standards (which isn't saying much).
I think if you can do a 1:15 kilo then you definitely qualify for Keirin school. They actually make a ton of money - you should go for it Carleton The whole thing is centered around gambling.

There is Koichi Nakano though, who took gold 10 years in a row, however many consider his racing style to be dishonorable.
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Old 04-14-12, 11:30 PM
  #2466  
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Originally Posted by gigantor View Post
+1 Knowledge bombs!



I think if you can do a 1:15 kilo then you definitely qualify for Keirin school. They actually make a ton of money - you should go for it Carleton The whole thing is centered around gambling.

There is Koichi Nakano though, who took gold 10 years in a row, however many consider his racing style to be dishonorable.
Yeah, I've done a 1:15 kilo

Koichi Nakano won when sprinting was much much different than it is now. 1) it was slower and 2) the gears were much lower. In those days, international professional sprinters raced on 90-96 gear inches. Now the gears are well over 100 gear inches...using similar cadences.

I'm not saying that a Japanese rider can't compete in the world ranks. In the 2012 World Championships Seiichiro Nakagawa finished 11th in sprints and in the Keirin Kazunari Watanabe finished 5th and Yudai Nitta finished 12th.

My point is that the JKA Keirin riders, in general, are not on the world level in terms of sprinting. It's simply a different style of racing.

Last edited by carleton; 04-15-12 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 04-15-12, 03:52 AM
  #2467  
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I always thought that keirin was like sumo, that there were huge cultural barriers for entry. Anyway is a 1:15 kilo a reasonable place to start to see if you are competitive? I've been timing myself on a mile time trial l and I thought I was pretty slow because I can't get it under 2:02. I thought that must be pretty slow because Major Taylor's was 1:19 but maybe that was paced. If a 1:15 kilo is competitive then maybe I'm not doing too bad.
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Old 04-15-12, 03:56 AM
  #2468  
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Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
I always thought that keirin was like sumo, that there were huge cultural barriers for entry. Anyway is a 1:15 kilo a reasonable place to start to see if you are competitive? I've been timing myself on a mile time trial l and I thought I was pretty slow because I can't get it under 2:02. I thought that must be pretty slow because Major Taylor's was 1:19 but maybe that was paced. If a 1:15 kilo is competitive then maybe I'm not doing too bad.
On the elite level, 1:15 is not competitive. That's sort of the point.

Yes, JKA Keirin is very difficult to enter for various reasons. One can't just meet the time standard then sign up. It's much deeper than that like you mention.
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Old 04-15-12, 04:00 AM
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I actually didn't want to know if 1:15 was competitive, in the "could this time mean you might be a world champion" sense but more in the "could this time mean you wouldn't necessarily come in last at a local event" sense.
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Old 04-15-12, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
I actually didn't want to know if 1:15 was competitive, in the "could this time mean you might be a world champion" sense but more in the "could this time mean you wouldn't necessarily come in last at a local event" sense.
At the local level, 1:15 would be good. 1:10 would be regional. 1:05 would be (US) national. 1:02 would be international. 1:00 would be Olympic (meaning international every 4 years. Sort of a big deal.)
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Old 04-18-12, 05:37 PM
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Carleton, would increasing muscle strength necessarily increase endurance for longer rides? Or would it be smarter to increase endurance at a lower weight/more reps before trying to work strength?
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Old 04-18-12, 08:10 PM
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I saw that you are now riding a Dolan and I would like your opinion on it, not sure if you stated it before (if so just a link to it will be fine). Do you think a Seta would be sturdy enough for the road with some open pros or would the frame wear very quickly (within a year) I know you don't own a seta but based on your knowledge of your current steed.
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Old 04-18-12, 09:13 PM
  #2473  
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Originally Posted by Street rider View Post
Carleton, would increasing muscle strength necessarily increase endurance for longer rides? Or would it be smarter to increase endurance at a lower weight/more reps before trying to work strength?
Fabian Cancellara didn't get legs like these doing Spinnervals. There was a gym involved.



Unfortunately, I don't have any advice as to what type of weight training you should do. Endurance riding is not my thing.

Originally Posted by Stezzy View Post
I saw that you are now riding a Dolan and I would like your opinion on it, not sure if you stated it before (if so just a link to it will be fine). Do you think a Seta would be sturdy enough for the road with some open pros or would the frame wear very quickly (within a year) I know you don't own a seta but based on your knowledge of your current steed.
Actually, as of right now, the Dolan DF3 is not better than my Tiemeyer. I raced it again tonight. I pulled the wheel in the dropouts EVEN with the chain tensioner engaged. I need to lay off the protein shakes.

Yeah, the Seta will be fine for street use.
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Old 04-18-12, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Fabian Cancellara didn't get legs like these doing Spinnervals. There was a gym involved.
How much do calves really come into play when riding? I don't want to only work my upper legs and end up looking like some sort of freak.
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Old 04-18-12, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Street rider View Post
How much do calves really come into play when riding? I don't want to only work my upper legs and end up looking like some sort of freak.
Very little. In cycling, the calves only act as stabilizers. Actually, some cyclists have custom cleat holes drilled into their shoes to move their cleats further back on the foot. This pretty much eliminates the calf altogether.





But, if you are worried about some sort of inbalance, don't. If you are doing standard exercises that use the entire leg, like the back squat, front squat, leg press, or dead lift, you are also working your calf. It is stabilizing you the whole time and getting stronger along with the rest of your leg.
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